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Utah Meetup group - - So ive been asked to post my thoughts to get people more active and going to meet and greets. This is somewhat of a copy/paste of what ive said before: Events that have requirements or have an adventurous nature get alot of responses and lots of people going. One thing on these meet and greets is the incredibly shy new comers. The hard thing is getting people actually meeting and separating the cliques. So one thing ive thought about is having a meet up where everyone is required to introduce themselves to at least 10 new people before the meet and greet concludes. The greeting must include your name, age, years in the LS, what your looking for(another couple, single(m/f)), a fantasy, etc just stuff like that. For some telling a new couple you enjoy watching your spouse get fucked by someone you just met might seem awkward, but its less so when its instructed as part of a greeting. Plus Reminding everyone your all SWINGERS, this is the point anyways lol. Your not meeting a random person, your meeting a swinger whose there with intentions the same as you! Even like adding a fun after party thing like a Meet and Great Score that people get to post on the forums after the M&G which everyone gets to see just how involved people were and to improve it for the next one. Like every couple you meet gives you 10 points(max of 100 for 10 people), Get someones kik/phone number(50pts, max of 5), Play with someone you met from the event that night(350pts). The next day everyone can post their points an you get to see just how involved everyone is. You get 500pts you were fully involved. if your short anywhere then hey you get a chance to improve next time and it kinda adds a naughty adventure to things. But these are my thoughts

Here's something Ive been curious about - - I think over the years we've pretty much seen and heard it all in regards to this subject and who is and isn't a "real" swinger. It kind of all boils down to semantics, doesn't it? Is it really that important to label it and each other? If swinging is a more of a mindset then yes, singles (male and female) are swingers too. I think, perhaps, that what some of the couples might be trying to get at (inelegantly IMO) is that in many ways perhaps singles don't really have as much invested in the process as couples do. As a swinging couple (remember it used to be called "wife swapping") you are in effect opening your relationship to some very real risk. If you don't think that's the case you either are in denial or haven't been around the scene that long. Singles simply aren't running the same risk although it could be argued they do have some risks, especially single females who at very least have some safety issues going into sometimes unknown situations alone. I guess you could argue single males also have a few risks as well. Also, of course, there is the whole argument of singles "not bringing anything to the table". An oft quoted argument to denote they don't have a partner to "swap". True enough in some regards but not entirely true in that they bring themselves and variety to the table for those couples not looking for a couples swap or who want to fulfill other fantasies or who have difficulty finding a fourway connection or attraction. Ultimately I think it's unnecessary for couples who don't want to play with singles (most often it's just single guys, a double standard perhaps?) to diss singles by saying they aren't swingers. And it's also probably not necessary for a few singles to complain that they aren't given an equal place at the table when they indeed do not come prepared to risk the same that couples must risk. Bottom line. Swing how you want to swing and don't swing how you don't want to swing. There's actually room for everyone even if we aren't all necessarily sitting at the same table.

Hall pass - - InvestigatingKink, it looks like we have been in the LS (lifestyle) about the same time, less than a year. Everyone has different needs and weaknesses in their marriage, and I certainly don't judge what other people do, at least not ethically. We were at a party just last night and talking to several couples who have been in the LS for a lot of years. We were discussing this very subject. They all had stories of people who started playing separately and most of those couples are now divorced. Their belief is that it is often very difficult on marriages and definitely not for the majority of swingers. Now all of you hall pass and open marriage people, don't get freaky on me. This is just speculation on my part and opinion of those I talk to. There are many I'm sure it works great for. I believe the LS can be seriously hard on your marriage if you are not in prime shape. We ourselves have had struggles just doing what we do (as I think everyone has had at some point) so to add more uncertainty to the situation would be tough. Also, to us (again, not judging) this is about a journey we are taking together. I like to watch her interact with people and be flirted with and she enjoys the same. If we were not together it feels as if we have moved on to something different. But we are probably rare. Our name alone, SameRoomOnly, should give you and idea of our ideals. I know this is going to sound crazy, but we aren't in the LS just to fuck a bunch of people. We truly enjoy the fun people, making friends and experiencing new things together. An analogy could be made to travel. We both love to travel. But if we started taking separate vacations all of the time, it wouldn't be as enjoyable. Hawaii is wonderful if I am there alone, but if she is with me, it makes the experience so much better. I want her to share in my experiences. Last thing is that we communicate together, almost always. It isn't that we are jealous of what a person says to either on of us, but we like to know what is being said, as a team. It keeps us honest and open and prevents us from having to recap any conversations. We trust each other completely, but we also realize that anyone can mess up and by putting yourself in a situation that could potentiate cheating or dishonesty doesn't seem wise to us. I'm sure some of you will want to interject and say "well, you two must not trust each other. We never worry about things like that. We love each other too much." Maybe so. But our opinion is that when you start to spend alone time with another person, talking freely about whatever the subject may be and are fucking that person, well...it seems dangerous. It's just like when I am at work. If a girl flirts with me or gets too close, I make sure to tell my wife and keep her updated and I also try to distance myself from that person. Not that I plan on cheating, but we are all human and have weaknesses. And by always being honest and open it helps to keep our marriage strong. So, maybe the truth is that we are just not secure enough in our relationship to do something like hall passes or an open marriage, or maybe the truth is that everyone who tries it will fail miserably and end up divorced. It probably is somewhere in the middle of that spectrum, as most things are. Few things are black or white. But we wouldn't entertain the idea of a consistent hall pass. Maybe once, or twice, just to experience it, but an ongoing thing, no way. Good luck with whatever you decide. Mr. SameRoomOnly

Looking to establish a group of safe swingers - - Sounds like a lot of fun. I met a couple on here a few years ago and we got together with others several times. Like to at least meet and go from there.

Swingers clubs in Amsterdam - - I was there and invited myself to a 1 person orgy. Had a lot of fun but didn't met anyone special.

Why so much hate in the swingers world... - - Ok this is enough for me.... Uluv... keep on doing what you do... you got it babe....

Las Vegas - Las Vegas - [quote=FUN4USXX2001]sounds good....any others?[/quote] Yes, Couples Oasis keeps popping up in our search. Based on the description my concern is that it's more like the meet and greet style event that we find here in Utah. Not exactly the reason I would go to LV since we can find those here! :) Another one that keeps popping up is [url=http://www.fantasylv.com/]Fantasy Lifestyle Venue[/url]. It looks like a smaller place and isn't as fancy as the others. But it looks a fair bit like our favorite club and the reviews make it sound like it attracts more experienced swingers and fewer newbies.

How close is too close - - FITZNBELINDA Actually, swinging will very quickly bring out and magnify flaws in a relationship, even in good relationships. The difference is that a good relationship/marriage will use this info to increase the trust and communications and make that relationship stronger. You asked about swingers as compared to the general public... The divorce rate in the general public is between 66 and 77% depending on which figures you are looking at.. THis is both for 1st and 2nd marriages. Approx 70% of all married people, both male and females, in the general public, now will admit to extramarital affairs. Since extramarital sex is the essence of swinging that is not an issue but marriages in the swinging community are stable approximately 85% of the time or only 15% of swingers marriages fail... as compared with 75% failure in the general public... In other words non swingers are 340% more likely to get divorced than swigners... or 3.4 times as likely. Respect is one thing but sometimes Stuff just happens. We don't ask for it we are not open for it but still it still happens.... My love for others has no effect on my wife and my relationship.. She understand who I will be going home with and that I don't wish to cause others grief.. If people are honest with themselves as well as others and you respect people enough to understand what's going on and care about their feelings you just walk away before any damage is done...

Vegas - - We're going April 9th-11th. Don't know what is and isn't open but we're hoping to find a room at The Sands or The Landmark or maybe The Dunes. We also plan on checking out the Liberace and Elvis museums and hitting that tiger magic show and FINALLY seeing either Wayne Newton or Frank Sinatra in person. We think they're playing at either The Stardust or the Desert Inn. Also can't wait to go to The Red Rooster as we hear it's SUPER classy, upscale, and a great place to meet lots of hot sexy swingers.

Girls that are into DP - How common is this activity among the swingers? - I love it - when it works! Don't think its a given, sometimes there is a lot of work to getting it to happen, and even that is fun! DP with a strap on - super hot! xxx Luscious