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The definition of cheating - - Interesting discussion. Certainly from a relationship standpoint the classic definition of cheating is being with someone other than your partner physically and/or emotionally. As swingers, however, we often hold ourselves above others and fall back on the lying and/or sneaking around aspect. Personally I feel that being dishonest with the person you hold most dear in this life to be the essence of cheating for me. When information is withheld you take away that person's prerogative to choose whether or not to stay in the relationship with you based on your actions outside of the relationship. There are a million ways people rationalize cheating. I find that a person's attitude towards cheating is a very good litmus test for the depth of their character. Now should we talk about cheating on a test or cheating other people out of their hard earned money? How about cheating on your taxes or at a poker game with friends? At what point DOES cheating become morally reprehensible or should it be "all's fair in love and war" and "every man (or woman) for himself"? Or as SIRNEWBY asserts, is self deception/lying/cheating really the only valid metric? Or did I misunderstand your point, SN? It would be interesting to get feedback from people (I'm sure there are plenty) who've been cheated on.

KSL swing story - - The story was terribley produced. Little to no research. As I said in the thread leading up to KSL being at the Club 90 party, they decided what story they were going to write before they even put pen to paper, and they were not going to let the truth get in the way of their story. I particularily liked the way it played women to be victims in the Lifestyle, especially when everyone knows it is women that really run the show and have the biggest say-so in who a couple plays with. Also, in surveys of swingers when asked "Who's idea was it to start swinging?" 34% of the time it was the wife that first brought it up. Sure, men still accounted for 54% of the survey (the rest couldn't remember who's idea it was originally), but it's not the men wanting sex with other women and drawing their poor defenseless wife into the lurid underground world of wife swapping to do it. Hell, anyone who's been around it for a while knows it's more "husband swapping" anyway. :p I've been following the comments on KSL's website, and these people have no life. They wait to watch the news every night and then add their two cents to every subject. None of them have any idea what they are talking about. As Ozzie Guillen says about arm chair coaches and sportscasters "the farther you sit from the plate the smarter you think you are." LMAO But all the comments are along the same lines, the evil cheating husband luring his innocent, unsuspecting wife into the seedy underworld. Then you get the fake profile they put up and within "six days, 70 married men, most from Utah, ask to start a fling." LMAO Damn, how many couples get emails every day from "free member" married men looking to cheat? We get at least one a day. The same old story over and over: Married Mormon family man who says "I love my wife but she doesn't like sex". These people need to look within themselves. We're not the problem, they are. Plus, most of us won't play with cheaters and after a time we've become very adept at sniffing them out. My wife gets at least one married Mormon man a day sending her an IM on her personal Yahoo! Messenger ID, and they find her in the Yahoo! directory (not Yahoo! Personals, the directory). They just go through looking for women online to contact. They don't know she is a swinger. Her Yahoo! profile is innocent as can be. If they are going to cheat they will find a way, with or without swingers. Wow... I'd love to say this on KSL's site, but like fun4usxx said, it will just add fuel to the fire and you can't win. You can't fix stupid. Mr. Caress4u

Habits - - hey everyone... glad you all had fun... and your right! the meetngreets are as fun as you make them.. to clarify a previous comment... the meet n greets are not just couples night.. everyone is invited to attend, couples and singles (males and females) that could explain the single male that pointed out who the swingers were and was dead on.. he could have likely received the same evite as everyone else and or just comes often enough to spot some of us.. some of us are there quite regularly.. The club does have a reputation at this point... it is known that we likeminded people like to hang out there... they receive calls from curious people wanting to join in our fun.. the club employees have introduced us to people like this as they come in and some of them are now members of this site.. (lol wink to those of you that this applies) i dont see clicks, i see groups of friends that have already met.. we all tend to hang out with friends, everyone does.. thats normal behavior you must come willing to independantly socialize and introduce yourselves to others.. none of us know everyone and we are all there being busy meeting and greeting others... dancing and just plain having fun.. eventually if you come often enough, you know alot of others and you find your self with alot of new awesome friends :D I know we have!!! Thanks to all that came! We look forward to the next one and hope you can all make it. xoxo kk PS People watching is fun too :D

Are you more or less tolerant? - - We are probably the same as before we became swingers.. U have to be atractive, but we have learned douchiness comes in all shapes and sizes

BUSTED! Your Kids Found Out Your Swingers. Now What? - - IMO, you wouldn't explain yourself about your monogamous "vanilla" sex life or activities, so why would you about this? The subject of this thread was about your kids finding out. I'm not sure what age group of kids we're talking about and that can make a big difference. If they are adult children, you can simply tell them you are sorry they had to find out about it and regret that it makes them uncomfortable but it is your private life and will leave it there...in private. I think it is wise to reassure them that you will not do anything to embarrass them (start acting differently around them or other family members, etc.) and that nothing between you and them will change. Before they found out you were still the parent they loved and this will continue now. If they are young children, it can be a little more complicated. The questions aren't just about the lifestyle but also about sex since they are probably learning and curious about the topic in general. But, you could keep it very simple (& age appropriate) and explain that sex is something adults enjoy privately and that if they have any questions about sex (emphasis not on swinging) you will be happy to answer. If they pursue asking about swinging, I would just share that this is something better explained when they are a little older and that honesty and communication are valued so you will try to be as honest as you can be. However, you don't need to go into detail IMO. Often, kids are looking more for your reaction and some reassurance and aren't quite as concerned with the actual "words". They want to know their world isn't being disrupted. The rest of your post mentioned family members, etc. Again, you would never feel obligated sit around and discuss the details of a vanilla sex life so it isn't necessary to discuss the details of swinging. You could share that if someone has a private question they would like to ask they can if that's the kind of relationship you have with them. But, you can also add that you will only do so if comfortable. I might stress or emphasize that you and your partner have an open and honest relationship that you enjoy together. There are a number of factors that go into enhancing that relationship making it so special and that they've stumbled onto one area that you've incorporated/explored. You appreciate that it might not be for everyone and you wouldn't expect everyone to understand but that you sincerely hope they would also be as considerate to not judge the two of you. I might add that while you've tried to be candid when answering their questions, you only ask in return that they respect your privacy and not share what they've learned or discussed with anyone else. Include them into the agreement by explaining that you will extend to them the same discretion they extend to you. Who knows...one of them may have been curious about exploring the lifestyle and you might just be that one person they feel comfortable asking about it. At the same time, people can be very judgemental so protect yourselves. However these family members found out...it could happen again if that avenue hasn't been fixed. I'm sorry this got so long-winded and I could write so much more. Whew!!! Good luck with this!

Pink flamingo - How many swingers have a pink flamingo in their front yard? - Yeaa, all the "secret" swinging hints and references are all just funny. Even then I would love to see an upside down pineapple in the grocery cart.

Swingers Dares - Text for cards in the game - TCMISSY... Let us know where to get that game (Blush). A good dare for a woman is........ she has to put her cell phone on vibrate and insert it inside herself. Everyone takes turns calling her. We have a game that has that and it was hilarious.

Friend collectors or swingers - - [quote=PARTYINLV]We have a great core group of friends in the SLC area that we love to spend time with when we visit the area. In addition, we have a few more on our friends list that we would eventually like to meet. Actually, we have more pending friend requests than profiles on our friends list. We are extremely proficient in meeting others because we are swingers and not friend collectors. We have plenty of vanilla friends on Facebook. Haha![/quote] That sounds like a good system. 👍🏼☺️

Game ON....which sign is Hornier...(is that a word?) - zodiac signs of swingers? - He Leo-ROAR!!!! She Gemini :z

network swingers - - hmmm, may have to set the drv to record this one