Swingers Forum - Here is something to think about..

"You have no concept of the big picture. I am not saying spread everyone's wealth. I am saying tighten the profit margins. Allow for more growth from a more diverse market. THE CURRENT WAY ISN'T WORKING! The tune you're playing is old and it sucks. " The current way works just fine. If you will notice the major corporations that are failing are doing so AFTER Government involvement. I am sure that people like Bill Gates/WAlt Disney and Sam Walton would disagree. Allow for more growth, How, by giving people money they didn't have to earn? It has been rpoven time and again that LOWERING taxes INCREASES TAX REVENUE, by leaving money in the market place where it gets passed from hand to hand and gets taxed over and over instead of only getting taxed and then handed back out tax free.

"You are what is wrong with this economy. You want to move in, make your quick dollar and offer nothing to a community that is crumbling." You are right I moved in and make a quick dollar with nothing to offer my community. I did it all on $40,000 a year, working as a deputy Sheriff, a state correctional officer, non profit organization working with Mentally handicapped adults, teaching them life skills so they might beable to off-set thier SSI by earning a paycheck. And Now I do it by serving in the national Guard. How do you serve your community?

As for solving your crime issues...., You are right maybe we have to much crime because people don't make enough money. So lets give them more money without making them work any harder, giving them just as much time to spend on the streets as they have now, only with with more money in their pockets to buy the drugs that usually go hand in hand with the crime you are so concerned with.

Just remember one thing ROSE... like the Homeless guy you see begging for "anything you can spare" on the street. After he empties your pocket of spare change he moves on to the next guy, and so on, pretty soon it isn't "anything you can spare" but instead it's "a couple of dollars". charity is never enough for those who can earn a living.

I mean really, all the name calling' (republitards) just makes it apparent that you would rather incite people into an arguement than have a well thought out and informed exchange of information and opinions. So on that note call me what you wish and show the rest of the people in here what kind of a person you truly are. I on the other hand will continue to hold polite exchanges with others of opposing views, whether they are right or wrong. I already know that no matter what is said here, no one will change their minds on who they think is best suited for the highest position in the Country. It is fun and entertaining to hear what the other side thinks and why.

Sorry Aklim you can't have it. It's a communist country. You don't like being told how it is.


<b>TOP,</b>

I did 14 years in the military. I was a private business owner in two states, I was a Nuclear Security Officer, I am a graphic and website designer, I build computers and I write code. Are we comparing resum

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Oct 16, 2008 - 5:54 pm
Sorry Aklim you can't have it. It's a communist country. You don't like being told how it is.

I did 14 years in the military. I was a private business owner in two states, I was a Nuclear Security Officer, I am a graphic and website designer, I build computers and I write code. Are we comparing resum

Well well well.... the only thing I haven't seen thrown out at us is that we are racist.
Thanks for letting us all live in "YOUR" country.

Rose......"So spare me the hardwork bullshit. Quit acting like you've been down some road that the rest of us haven't. "

No where in my post did I refer to me working harder than the rest of the world. Nowhere in my post did I say I have been down some road that no one else has. My post simply answered your post about making a quick buck and not giving back to the community. No where in my post did it refer to healthcare, (yeah I get mine through the National Guard, which by the way takes all of my monthly Guard Paycheck.) If you want to make health care affordable then you don't give people health insurance, you regulate the industry, being a democrat I am sure you understand regulating the private sector. Health Care is one thing, being unable to work is one thing, My problem is working so that the Government can take my money and give it to someone who does not deserve it. Someone who refuses to get a job with benefits, or someone who refuses to get a job at all. Use my money to train them and if after that they refuse to get a job then fuck em. Make them seek to better themselves, don't enable them to be lazy and dependant on others for the rest of their lives.

Im Joe the plumber and I aprove this messege.....

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If you want to be President of the United States wouldnt you think that the American people should know these things? But Why does Barrack Husain Obama want to hide his past? What could be the reason he will not release his past information? Whats going on here Mr Obama? All this information should be released to the American Public.


1. Occidental College records -- Not released
2. Columbia College records -- Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "not available"
4. Harvard College records -- Not released
5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released
6. Medical records -- Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- "not available"
8. Law practice client list -- Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released
11. Harvard Law Review articles published -- None
12. University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None

13.Your Record of baptism-- Not released or "not available"

14. Your Illinois State Senate records--"not available"

Wouldnt you think he would if he wasnt hiding anything?

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Don, still waiting for an example of your ideas in a succesful format.....I have been asking for one thing as you continue your name calling and dancing around the subject.......

one country....naitionalized oil....better quality of life than we have it. (more spread out wealth maybe????)

if you find it, it validates all your points, if you don't, obviously your ideas don't work and what we have still is the best out there....not saying it is perfect, but it is the best.


Hey btw Don, your holy grail of a president, BJ BILL thought you may like to see this little fact:

This is called the Gini index, the higher the index the more income disparity (aka the rich getting richer)

1968: 38.6 Nixon R
1970: 39.4 Carter
1980: 40.3 Reagan
1990: 42.8 Bush Sr
1992: 41.9 Bush Sr/start of Clinton years
2000: 46.2 Clinton
2005: 46.9 Bush Jr
2006: 47.0 Bush Jr
2007: 46.3 Bush Jr

Interesting Don, Clinton had a 4 point jump, the highest on record....in fact Bush jr closed the gap a bit and brought back closer to where Clinton left it....

Oh yeah, if you look at it, the biggest jump for Clinton was when he had a democratic congress, slowed after Newt and the boys got in......just sayin.

Of course, I know that TR will respond to this and not the original challenge.

Hey I have to ask you? In your dream socialist sociaty. When the people you hate so much , the people who get off thier asses and produce decide not to anymore because they loosers are taking home just as much as the producers? What happens after that? Or What happend when the government tells the doctors how much they can make and they decide to go elsewhere. What happens then? What kills me is you assholes who love socialism realy have no fucking clue what happens to the econamy in the long run.. Ask yourself one question? have you ever seen a person risk life and limb to excape freedom into socialism? Last I checked the come here from Cuba If they can get out?

Hey Kiss
This is why it is flat out scary where this country is going.. Fucking clueless sheep like Don who realy dont understand or are so fucking brainwashed they refuse to see what socialism is and what it does to the people of its country. He is right on one part sadly Believers in hard work and freedom are dwindeling and the rise in population of these lazy libral socialist is flat out scary........ I do prey that if he gets in , between him ,palosi and the other Anti American socialists in the democratic party they dont fuck it all up so bad we cant recover. I wish one day they would open there eys and read the constitution and understand how great this country is and could be. It truly is the last real beacon of freedom in the world. Hey there is some hope...... It took four years of carter to get Reagon.

Actualy your last post proved exactly what I said you dont understand and niether do assholes in the house and congress.. The markets need to be left alone and correct themselves. By dumping all this false money in is in the long run going to destroy the value of the dollor. That will be far worse than bailing them out.. Capitolism will work if it is left alone for the most part. What we do need to do is stop monopolies to create compatition. Cut the capitol gains taxes , Drill for oil, Cut the corprate taxes , Cut income taxes and CUT GOVERNMENT WASTE!!! Cut ALLL earmarks and pork spending. Its proven over and over if you cut everyones taxes the economy grows. When you tax more people clamp down and dont spend

But then you wouldnt learn that in socialism class......

"I wish one day they would open there eys and read the constitution and understand how great this country is and could be. It truly is the last real beacon of freedom in the world."


Reading the Constitution and understanding it ar 2 different things. If YOU would actually understand the constitution you would know that the Federal Government DOES NOT have the RIGHT or the RESPONSIBILITY to regulate a damned thing EXCEPT NATIONAL SECURITY. ALL OTHER RESPONSIBILITIES ARE TO BE LEFT TO THE STATES AND COMMUNITIES. All men are created equal means that they all have the RIGHT to have the same opportunites, that they have the opportunity to keep up with the Joneses, not that they have the right to keep up with the Joneses or that the Joneses must slow down and let them keep up.

So open your eyes and try opening your mind maybe you would be so grumpy, Professor Behatenstein.

Posted By: CHRKE2 Reply posted on:
Oct 17, 2008 - 4:33 am
To think we are going to become a socialist state (a charge the right loves to toss around) is absurd. I don't see anyone advocating a conversion to socialism, so quit using extreme notions to make your feeble points.

If you want to successfully get somewhere in your car, you are well-advised to take good care of your tires. The bottom economic tier of people is where the RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD! If you don't take care of the segment of the vehicle where the hardest, continuous work gets done, you'll end up in the ditch! And don't forget the spare.

While you all are waiting for Don's answer on an oil-socialized nation, or whatever the hell it is you are looking for, - I am still waiting for an explaination as to why the right gets so excited about a perceived fucking from below, when the fucking we are getting from above is gargantuan in comparison and running us into the ground right now?

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I doubt it Obama will transform us to a socialist state immediately. OTOH, he does seem to want to take us in that direction. How far he will get is a different story.

And the engine, transmission and differential don't do hard work?

I don't think it is about the bottom fucking the top or vice versa. My objection is that I don't think socialism works. Countries that have been socialist are doing well AFTER adopting some capitalistic ideas. We, OTOH, start out with capitalism and try take it towards socialism.

NOTE: We cannot say that capitalism brought us to where we are. Why? Because we have injected socialism in it already so that argument is moot. As they say, when you mix a spoonful of sewage in a barrel of the finest wine, it is about the same as mixing a spoonful of the finest wine in the barrel of sewage. What we have is NEITHER capitalism nor is it socialism. We have a totally different animal. Communist countries were doing poorly until they started to add more and more capitalism into their systems. So why are we going the other way? Take the bailout as an example. What do we have here? We have private profits but public liabilities. One part of this, one part of that. To use your car example, we are taking a GM computer and trying to make it work with a Mercedes engine.

TOPFREEINGA wrote:

"Reading the Constitution and understanding it ar 2 different things. If YOU would actually understand the constitution you would know that the Federal Government DOES NOT have the RIGHT or the RESPONSIBILITY to regulate a damned thing EXCEPT NATIONAL SECURITY. ALL OTHER RESPONSIBILITIES ARE TO BE LEFT TO THE STATES AND COMMUNITIES."

<hr>

WRONG! The federal government has any power we pass into federal law granting it regulatory power. What you think it should've become and what it did became are two different things. You also failed to mention that it's also the federal government's responsibility to ensure that our federally guaranteed rights are respected in every state. READ THE 14TH AMENDMENT! Anything that violates those rights, the state is not suppose to inflict it upon it's citizens. Despite this constitutional guarantee, states, like yours, in the south, still have ridiculous blue laws and other retarded shit that respects religion. I think it's you that should go back to school.

AKLIM,

Capitalism and socialism go hand in hand. As long as there has been capitalists underpaying and ripping off the little guy, there has been socialists right there trying to get fair treatment. The government is there to prevent capitalists from turning everyone in to slaves. You are a fascist pure and simple. You want the little guy to take all the weight. What's sad is that you are one of the little guys.

-D-

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Oct 16, 2008 - 10:50 pm
Yawn, Tired lines fellas. There are plenty of hard working people going without proper education, healthcare and a livable wage. Why don't you get a clue? While you choose to turn your back on your community, some of use want to take care of those make the wheels turn. It's not all about those on top.

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OK, let me re-ask that same question. You talk about taking care of the community as being a responsibility of business. Fair enough. What is the community's responsibility? Does the community have any responsibility to the business? Sure, it buys stuff that they business sells like I buy the services of a hooker. Neither of us has any loyalty to the other.

Why is it that small businesses tremble whenever Wal*Mart comes to town? Unless you are in Bentonville, AK, Wal*Mart is NOT your local store. Businesses are either forced to evolve and sell stuff that Wal*Mart doesn't sell, offer different products, etc, etc or go out of business. Will the community step up and say "I don't care what the prices are. I buy local FIRST."? Doubtful. If we find that we save a few bucks by going 100 miles out of town, we will. Same with Home Depot or any of the other bigger stores. That is how life is. So, if you, the community have no loyalty and not pledge to support me, tell me why I, as a business have any obligation to you? This is a 2 way street or not at all. Until the community pledges to support it's local stores, why is there any obligation for the businesses to support the local community?

No, don, I am simply looking for some proof that your ideas work, anywhere at anytime......that is all. And you have yet to come up with an example that validates your point. You threw out a very capitalistic country like japan, i beat you up on it, you threw out china.....uh yeah, saw how well that went.....then you backtracked, so I tried to make it easy for you.

One example, that is it....you say you want nationalized oil and redistribution of wealth, so I have given you an opportunity to show me where it works...where it has ever worked, and you cannot, becuase it deosn't work.

So, that leaves me with two options to believe about your ideas:

Option 1: you are a political genuis and have figured out how to make socialism work when no other country or leader in history has been able to.

Option 2: you are another liberal/socialist hack who speaks in ideals and hates the very concept of capitalism and are clueless to the fact that capitalistic countries have the best quality of life for it's people, it's workers..... the most opportunity for advancement and social mobility.

So our economy is in a down turn, big fuckin whoop, been there a few times, even at our worst times, americans have still had it better than even the chinese worker of today.....who's economy is improving because they are openeing up to free enterprise.

I agree with you on the disparity of wealth, the Gini index does not lie, the US has one of the highest indexes for a western capitalistic society....but we also had more to overcome. We had a huge population of slaves that once freed had nothing, and therefore started us down a path of income desparity.

Again, since you love to hate on this state and it's conservative leadership and how horrible it is........

Utah has the lowest Gini index at 41 and the great blue state of Conneticut Lead the nation at close to 50.

So, again, further proof that your views are screwed up, yeah, the religion control sucks here, but face it, the GOP controlled government here has lead us to the lowest factor of wealth disparity in the US.

And I see you did not want to argue that your annointed one Bill Clinton caused the largest growth in disparity of wealth in the history of the US and GW actaully brought it down.

That has to sting.

anxiously awaiting your next feeble post.......

mr cnk

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Oct 17, 2008 - 1:09 pm
We already proven that your system makes the rich, richer the poor poorer and the quality of our society is getting more and more shitty.

You are proving your way doesn't work my friend. Capitalism only works for those that are lucky enough to get a break, it has nothing to do with hard work.

IT DOES WORK THERE ARE PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD DOING IT. YOU MEAN IT DOESN'T WORK THE WAY YOU WANT! GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK! It doesn't allow you to exploit the public to line your pockets and give nothing back to the community, while the little guy does. You're a fascist. Sorry I don't subscribe to fascism. That's what your point consists of.

Again, buddy 8 years of the GOP in charge, 6 of them with a total GOP control and our economy is in the toilet. 3 trillion dollar war, record high gas, destroyed foreign affaird etc. I think it's you stinging. Take a look at the poles smart guy. OUCH!

The country doing the best economically right now is a fucking socialist country. OUCH! You really have no clue.
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So it is worse overall here than in say Nam or China? Really? Been to them lately? And I am not talking about the main drags. I have seen what they are like in the less than main drags and it isn't pretty. As long as you stick to the tourist areas, life is good. Outside.....

Oh yes. Luck is the only factor, right? I can open the door for you with luck but you are still going to have to step thru it. If I bought you 1000 lottery tickets, you still have to go check them all to see if you have won. Luck is 1 factor. Also, if I gave you a million dollars, you could either make it into 10 million or lose it all if you are stupid and/or careless. Having is one thing, keeping it is way harder. You do remember what they said about a fool and his money, right?

Like who? Who is doing it and doing better?

Yeah. It has nothing to do with Freddie and Fannie being asked to guarantee bad loans. Nothing to do with Clinton "enforcing" a bad law. Nothing to do with them being asked to increase their percentages. Of course not.

Why beat around the bush? Tell us which country you are speaking of so we can make sure that there are no capitalistic pigs there milking the system. I doubt you will find them. You might find that they are switching to capitalism though.

I've always believed that the ultimate oxymoron is Republican Alternative. Other than deregulating all the banks, airlines and oil companies the main contributions of post Reagan era Republicanism has been to insure that AIDS (remember Gay acquired immune disease talk?) became epidemic, air traffic control became a bad joke and a person's right to control the functions of their own body suddenly is called into question. Blaming Barney Frank for the collapse of Fannie Mae is like blaming Bugs Bunny for Elmer Fudd's stuttering. John McCain wants us to believe he is the one with great judgement yet he changes his mind continuously, (often within the scope of the same sentence) and after careful search and vetting gave us Sarah Palin. Even long time Republican states are coming to their senses and voting for a Black Democrat. There may be hope for the future after all. :*

Don - "IT DOES WORK THERE ARE PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD DOING IT. YOU MEAN IT DOESN'T WORK THE WAY YOU WANT! GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK! "

Where? where, has nationlized energy and big government control worked with a better way of life than the US. Answer the fucking question!!! THIS IS YOUR POSITION>>>FUCKING DEFEND IT!

You keep saying Canada, but Canada does not have a nationlized energy policy and only 1/3 of the people in the energy producing regions of canada want it nationlized.

"Again buddy, 8 years of the GOP in charge, 6 of them with a total GOP control and our economy is in the toilet. 3 trillion dollar war, record high gas, destroyed foreign affaird etc. I think it's you stinging. Take a look at the poles smart guy. OUCH! The country doing the best economically right now is a fucking socialist country. OUCH! You really have no clue."

China is diong best right now???? Milk laden with Melamine??? The most unsafe working conditions in a developed nation? and you have the balls to call me clueless?

And what poles? stipper poles? or are you referring to the Poles, the Polish people? Or are you talking about the POLLS, like opinion polls, where the current DEM control congress has a lower approval rating than any in history??? those polls? Look, people that are in a panic situation are not samrt people, so polls right now include people in a panic, they are skewed, but if you want to take any stock in them, go for it, facts are not really your strong suit anyhow, rage and emotion seem to better fit you than logic and details.

Fine 8 years of GOP and we dealt with an attack on US soil at the beginning of it and the first 6 years did pretty fucking well....what happened to the leadership of this country 2 years ago...damn I forget.... oh yeah, DEMS took control of congress...hmmm guess they may be some blame to go around on both sides...even thought you do not have the balls to admit it.

"In a Socio-Capitalist society, the living is much better. Crime rates are lower, the communities look better. etc. etc. Canada is a perfect example. The capitalists are regulated as are the nationalized programs like healthcare. It may not be the best healthcare and there are long lines for those who have it, but it beats having nothing at all. In your capitalist world people would have NOTHING! You have yet to refute any of my points."

Umm yeah, see Canada has SMALLER government, and LESS government control....and has been moving to the right.......Are you even reading my posts? Hell I was the one that said Canada is a better exapmle of how it should be with the local provincial control and a smaller national government, with more oversight done locally. NO fair copying off of the smart kids paper DON.....

"Also Mr. Wizard, you need to study the difference between socialism and communism. One is an economic principle the other is political."

Gee thanks for the lesson Don, not sure why you thought I needed it...remember you are the one that keeps bringing up Communist China, not me...do you even read YOUR posts?

"Again, you are using Utah as a model of success, but we haven't the freedoms here that other states have. No lottery, Shit beer, overwhelming religious bullshit, shitty roads, shitty drivers, dirty air, urban sprawl. HAHA!! Yeah, Utah is great!"

Again, not even sure where you come up with this shit, I put out hard ecenomic facts...you pull out lottery.....lottery? are you fucking kidding? Lottery, I am still in udder amazement the shit you pull.

Lets see, California...Liberal, Utah conservative

Urban sprawl uhhh yeah CA has more than UT
Shitty roads.....they don't even have to deal with snow and their roads suck
Shitty Drivers...uh not even sure where this plays in a socialism discussion...has socialism been shown to have better drivers? anyone?
Dirty Air -becasue the socialism cleans the air right? oh yeah, ca air sucks too
damn, you have me on the beer and religion.......

The funny thing is, I live here, I am not religous, I dislike religion in fact, yet I am not that bothered by it, I would think a democrat....the party of acceptance....would be tolerant of others beliefs.....of course, any one who has read pretty much any post of yours can safely assume that tolerance is not a trait you posess.....it is the TR way or you are a "fucktard"

How about real stuff:
Better economy - UT
Better Traffic - UT
Less wealth disparity - UT.

See that last one is where you are so blatently a hypocrite and a liberal hack. UT has a very low dispairty of wealth within the state, the basis of your WHOLE argument.....and yet you are such a mindless neophyte you cannot even give UT credit where it is due, because your hatred of all things mormon and republican, instead you attack that they don't have a lottery (I am still shaking my head laughing, seriously a lottery? A LOTTERY????). Which begs the question, if UT sucks so bad....why do you live here?

Idaho has a lottery and better beer, oh shit that is a red state with lots of mormons too, maybe WY...a fuck that is where cheney is from....oh oh oh I know, Nevada, yeah there ya go, they have great beer, all sorts of gambling and it is way more of a blue state.... oh wait, fuck they have a lot of mormons too, damn, and urban sprawl, shitty air....fuck sorry bro I guess canada?

Oh yeah....still waiting for that one myhtical place with a nationalized energy policy that has a better quality of life than the USA...and please don't bring up China again.

I will be back in a few days to check and see if you have come up with anything...till then I will be plotting with my other evil capitalists on how I can steal more money from the little people, I mean damn I have boats to fuel and guns to buy. Maybe later this weekend I can go burn some rain forrest, right after I finish bombing an abortion clinic and clubbing baby seals.

(really I am going to turn the compost pile, ride my bicycle and finish taking care of the food we grew in our garden...but I thought that would be too much fo you libs to take, so I gave you what you wanted to hear)

AHHHHH!!!! Don at his best. Read what he wants..sees what he wants...believes what he wants. How about I don't like the cost of computers or the code they are written with, I think they should cost only $50 lets cap them and see how Don's quality of life is then. I read 15 pages of Don's head in the sand and can't see anything but his own ass!! You might think a military man would have some love for his country, but I don't see it.

Don you never did answer how much you have given to those poor souls you want everyone else to give too. But there aren't hardly any of them in Utah are their?

And a question, if you hate Utah so much why don't you get the hell out and stop whineing? Can't you make the same living elsewhere in an unregulated industry like computers?

Guys this is the typical Don at work show you youtube and discredit everything not to his liking. Save your breath and fingers he's blind by choice.

As usual twist and namecall no answers

Come on Don can we cap puter prices?

How much did you give?

"Hear Hear! I don't want a communist country. I just want control over capitalism. There has to be stops. I am for socializing energy, education and healthcare. I do think any minority should control the majority politically or economically. It one ensure the rights of the few (those with money). "


You just want what everyone else has earned. There do not have to be stops, unless you are envious of what others have. Lets break this down a little

1)Socialized Energy...Hell the government has thrown enough regulations on the Private sector they damn near already run it. But to show you how much the Government cares about your energy bill. Since the cost of oil has increased, the Energy Companies have recieved tax breaks and Congressional Approval to raise thier rates to compensate for it so they can keep their profit margin. So the Government that you want to control energy would rather raise your rates than find a way to reduce the price of oil or find Viable alternatives like wind or Nuclear energy.

2) Socialized Education...Students that recieve a privately funded education are more likely to recieve scholarships in academics than Public School students. HMMM seems that the government is the best option there.

3)Socialized healthcare... didn't work in Massachusetts, Draining the economy in Canada, plus the wait for Non-emergency procedures is so long Canadians are coming to America for them and paying for it themselves. Draining the economy in the U.K and other European countries to the point where they are seeking other alternatives. So, since it didn't work there it has got to work here. they just didn't so it right I guess.

The Minority controls the majority in ANY FORM OF GOVERNMENT until the majority throws them out of power. That is the way the world turns. Just because the rich are paying for the poor does not make the poor any more powerful or the Rich any less powerful. All the rich have tpo do is the same they have been doing since the beginning of time, Spread the wealth to those who can give them the most for it and those people will always be people in Government. So the only people who stand to gain by sharing the wealth are Politicians. You won't get a dime from it that will make your life any better, it will just give the Government more control over you.

back to china again....wow you certainly are a fan of the working man...NOT!!

I posted my facts, in the Gini index,(the same one that showed the disparity grew most under Clinton), articles written in finacial journals etc etc etc. You are the one who throws out shit with absolutely nothing to back them up with, and at every turn I come back with and answer and a fact...your best fucking stat was a three year old opinion poll....my god you staggered me with that one!

You have not answered the question.....you keep saying China.....they do NOT have it figured out. You are so steeped in defending your point even though it is completely lost you grasp at straws.

In fact how about a little experiment...every poster after this give a vote

Yes, china has a better way of life for its people and workers or
No, china does not have a better way of life for its people.

Simple

Oh yeah....Canada.... that bullshit article that stated that 51% of canadians oppose nationalization of oil....is three years old, when that came out....George Bush ahd a 58% approval rating, try something more recent. Also I bet the rest of the 4 people still following this overblown fat thread would like to see how those numbers break down:

Quebecers were most in favor of nationalization (67%) followed by Atlantic Canadians (53%), Ontario (45%) and B.C. (42%). Even on the prairies, where most of the oil and gas in Canada is located, there was significant support for nationalization, 40% across the Prairies and 36% in Alberta. Interesting how the non-producing provinces were more for it than the ones that actually produce....

So, I never said I brought up China, or Japan, I brought up Canada when I said the most succesful country with a Natlzd Healthcare was Canada...they USED to have a nationalized oil but it was innefective and they sold it all off. Surprised you did not find that little tidbit.

I am not accusing you of wanting a communist country, I am accusing you of having unsound and unfounded ideas towards how best to run an economy.

And one more thing.....seriously, very seriously

Don,
Thanks for your service to OUR country, you do deserve respect and a salute for being willing to sign your life on the line as a volunteer, not knowing what may lie ahead but knowing if it all went to shit you would have to face it first. Our military is the finest in the world without question and the freedoms that many people around the world enjoy are there because our military and our brave soldiers who helped secure it for them either directly or indirectly. Those same brave souls who were not compelled by law to serve...only compelled by self.

To that we can all raise a beer (3.2% for us poor bastards in UT )and toast, becuase with out them, we would not have the freedoms we have to yell at each other in ALL CAPS SO YOU KNOW WE ARE SERIOUS AND SCREAMING AT OUR COMPUTERS!!!....

And we all know the sillyness of this whole thread...because after all:

Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics.....even if you win....your still a retard.

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Oct 17, 2008 - 1:48 pm
There are slums here too. Been to the south? Been to LA? Been to NY? The same can be said for here.

Oh and with a socio-capitalist society, there is no luck involved when it comes to all the members of the community getting healthcare and education. It's guaranteed.

Your model is take care of me me me.

My model is to take care of the community.
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My point is that overall, we are better off here than there.

You still haven't told me what anything should be guaranteed. Who owes you anything?

And I don't ask you to take care of me. I take care of me. If I fail, I fail.

And again you talk of rights. What of responsibilities. What responsibilities would the community have?

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Oct 17, 2008 - 7:04 pm
China has a socialist economy that is kickin ass. You wanted an example of one that works. The economy has nothing to do with freedoms within. If you are talking about free market.. Well um... that's just too bad. As far as social freedoms etc. It has no bearing.

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I don't do business with China so I don't know them as well. From what I have seen, they kick ass when they adopt capitalistic policies when it comes to economics. Like an example I cited with the Vietnamese. Ever since they were allowed to keep the profits, they have EXPORTED rice. Shrimp? I think they are the #4 or #3 EXPORTERS of the stuff. Textiles? Watch for them to take over in maybe 10 years. I can't understand why they are becoming more capitalistic other than that they want to make money. NO, I am not talking about freedoms within. I am just talking about economic policy. Oh, BTW, they do have millionaires in China. Shocking, isn't it?

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Oct 17, 2008 - 7:48 pm
All I am saying is that instead of widening your profit margin, by sqeezing the little guy, put his healthcare in your overhead. GIVE TO YOUR COMMUNITY! I would be glad to. Apparently, you aren't.

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And what will the community give in return? It's dedication to their industry? When someone comes from outside with the same product for less, will the community give to the local industry? You want to talk of giving to the community, why don't you ever say what the community will give in return? You talk of fairness, lets talk of what the company gets in return for not widening it's profit margin. Tell me that in general people will patronize their local establishments and I will tell you that it cannot be happening otherwise business won't get worried when a big box store comes to a small town.

TEQUILAROSE
3. Anyone I work for owes me fair compensation. A.K.A a livable wage.

4. You don't have to ask. That's what part of being in a community works. You work together to make your nation stronger.
5. Everyone in the community has the responsibility to do their part, if they are capable.
6. Implementing these changes will reflect less numbers of those not willing to take part.
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3. Why? Why should they pay you any more than what the market will bear?

4,5,6. Oh yes I do have to ask. Marx and Engels tried something like that and it wasn't that successful. It was a good theory except it forgot that human nature would take over.

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Oct 17, 2008 - 11:56 pm
4,5,6 - No that's true of any society my friend.

3- HAHA! You ajust your overhead/profit margins to reflect what is fair. Less profit for you to do what is right. It has nothing to do with the market. It has to do with what corners you cut. It has to do with your ethics with your employees. Do you reward them with a fair wage for doing your bidding or do you screw them, causing them to resent you and hate their job, make shitty products, form unions, driving down your production, upping your costs and many corporation then illegally turn to laborers like Mexicans and children or sell it to another part of the world. It gets harder and harder to find healthy educated people. That my friend is not American. Sorry, don't buy your cheap mentality.

We are now involved in two wars because of how we treat other people.

We are now debt another 3,700,000,000,000 because of capitalism.
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IN THEORY, it is. In practice, it's not. Why does Wal*Mart sell all kinds of cheap Chinese goods? Because people will buy them over the more expensive US made ones. That is fact. Why does Home Depot cause problems for local hardware stores? Because people will buy their products for less rather than help their local businesses. As I have said, the community has shown that it will place itself first as INDIVIDUALS not as a group. That is why that theory won't work. It depends on everyone putting the community over their selfish needs. Sure, it's nice to say it will work and I will do this and that. However, when crunch time comes, which way will they jump? Will they patronize a local Ford dealership when there is a big chain one 20 miles away that will give them a bigger break on the same car? Doubtful. That is why I am saying that it is every man for himself.

It has everything to do with what the market will bear. Why should I adjust my profit margins for them? If I am having a hard time making payroll, will they leave or stick with me thru the rough times? Business is not guaranteed. This month I have a chance to make a killing, next month I might be broke. If an employee of this nature is worth $10 an hour, I pay it. If they can't produce, I don't. Market value also takes into account what it costs me to replace this person. If the produce twice what the others do, it will cost me less to pay them more for their work. If they are a dime a dozen sort of worker, I pay them accordingly. If there are 100 people of your caliber waiting to take your place, I guess your worth just went down. If I cannot replace you without hiring 2 workers to do your work, your worth went up. If you are a dime a dozen, why should I care if you can live off what I pay you? That is your problem. The solution is also in your hands. Make yourself more indispensable.

I'm sure you don't think it has anything to do with oil supply and how it would affect our economy.

Really? Because the last time I checked, we have introduced socialism into the mix making it a hybrid and results unpredictable. IF capitalism was so bad, why are the Chinese adopting more and more of it's policies to the point that they have classes? I KNOW for a fact that in Vietnamese society they now have classes. Unofficially, yes. I do business with them all the time.

1)Socialized Energy...Hell the government has thrown enough regulations on the Private sector they damn near already run it. But to show you how much the Government cares about your energy bill. Since the cost of oil has increased, the Energy Companies have recieved tax breaks and Congressional Approval to raise thier rates to compensate for it so they can keep their profit margin. So the Government that you want to control energy would rather raise your rates than find a way to reduce the price of oil or find Viable alternatives like wind or Nuclear energy.

Here's yet another one for you Don. My electric comes from the city Of vero beach,Fl agovernmental body. Now if gov. is so good why do I pay more than the people on the next block that have private elec.? And then on top of that I pay an additional 6% because I live in the county. Now of course I do not get to pick which I want to use. I am forced to use the gov's. Socialism at it's finest.

That's what happens when republican "Slash spending" Cut your carotid artery and tell me how fast you can run without your blood supply. Common sense. Perhaps Republicans could actually think about where the money goes when their cutting funds. They're too busy trying to say their doing good by cutting spending.
<hr>
"So how is Ol Fannie doing these days since Clinton told them to increase loans to people who cannot afford it or as you put it, enforced a 20 yo law? Last I heard they were being bailed out."
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HAHAHA! Look further back my friend. It was Bush Sr. that first told them to do that in 1992. OUCH! Oh and Bush senior and the republicans pushing to Nationalize them is a socialist move my friend. HAHAHA!

-D-

I never claimed it wasn't partially Clintons fault.

you wrote:

"What's your point? That it was Republican so it absolves all others? Yes, it was Republican but as I pointed out to you way back, Clinton threatened to veto the bill to dissolve it. Yes, the made a wrong move but an attempt was made to correct it."

What was done the 6 years Bush and the GOP were in charge? Come now.

-D-

I am arguing. We have the highest gas, the most bankrutpcy rate, no usury laws to protect consumers. We allow the LDS church to encroach on our 1st Amendment. We are not as "free" as other liberal states. We also have lower median incomes than most of the other blue states. Check those links I posted. Also these:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_4838050

http://www.truthandgrace.com/mormonad.htm

Post those numbers putting Utah at the top again. I am interested in discussing them.


-D-

Also, that one about the schools and toursim two quick facts:

CLinton's land grab was on school trusts land, that coal woudl hav pumped a fuckload of money into our schools.

Seconed, vouchers they are the answer if the can be done right, we need some competition in UT stifled edu system.

I had a single disagreement with the context of those articles.

In fact my opinion is to hide Utahs when the out of towners show up....JK
We just need more open minded free thinkers and less zoobies

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Oct 18, 2008 - 9:17 pm
I never claimed it wasn't partially Clintons fault.

What was done the 6 years Bush and the GOP were in charge? Come now.
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OK. Fair enough. It is partially the Dems fault.

Again, it is partially the Reps fault.

What does this mean? To me, it means that we have a bunch of clowns in place. Dem or Rep, it isn't going to matter. You are going to get shafted.

The one you sent had a top to bottom ration, so it does not really take into consideration middle class. It just says here is the top and here is the bottom, IMO does not really mean much of anything. Utah still has a lower index than most on that scale as well, so they are still doing something right

http://www.ctkidslink.org/publications/econ07ginicoefficientct.pdf

that is a map of state by state income inequality. So it measures all levels of income and takes a measurement of how well it is dispersed, so it is a much better representation of disparity.

It is interesting to see how things work becasue Texas and LA are both really bad, and one is a red state and one is blue. So, you can make the excuse for New Mexico, CA, TX AZ etc as having a high migrant worker population and that could bring it down...but how do you explain CT and NY and MD?

And yes, for those keeping record IL is as bad as AZ, so yeah we are screwed.

OK, I am really done with this thread, very bored, I have stated my opinoins, shown plenty of proof and evidence and proven my points and now it is just back and forth.

I have way more important things to get onto and I am not very excited about this whole election anymore as it has shown how america is filled with sheeple...and they are being lead around by the media and the fact that an unproven, unvetted, blatantly partisan political hack is treated like the second coming of jesus, it does not leave me with a lot of hope. I really cannot beleive how people are buying this crap...well I guess microsoft can sell us Vista so I guess it makes sense that the liberal media can sell us Obama...the vista of the political world. Looks good, sounds good....but it just does not work.

Oh and then the GOP gives us a version of windows 98 to vote for...yeah were fucked. And now I found that the DEMS jsut put in to law that if I take all my money and companies and leave the country, they will take 40% of everything....honestly, what happened to our country people?

When are we going to stand up? I am asking the conservatives becuase the liberals don't even realize how far gone we are and OK with the loss of liberties, because they are clueless as to the liberties that are being lost. They do not understand our legacy and want to re wrtie history. So, does it really matter if I win a stupid thread on a swinger site against somebody that I do not really know, when I know I will lose what really matters, my freedoms, my money, my way of life, and most sadly, the constituion is being rendered a relic and our founding fathers have lost all they put into place.

It is obvious by all the liberals who like to say "they wrote it in a different time, it does not really apply to today"

Translation: "I do not want to be bothered with the document that founded the country it is a stupid document written by people who do not represent my ideals and I want to change the country to my views, and not actaully do any homework and understand history and realize that our country is the greatest on earth and what got us here, instead I am a selfish pig and want to see it work more for me."

I am tired of coming up with facts and having people try to disprove facts with opinions. So, I am going to sum up and never come back to this.

Utah - Aside from the religion issue, UT has a better ecenomic situation than the rest of the country, not that is is all wine and roses, but better...and it is GOP controlled. Also, it has leath wealth disparity than other states.

Socialism - Does not work, never has worked will never work. Infact, government collusion with private industry really fucks the average citizen. Government screws people, huge corporations screw people...put them together....what do you think happens?

Politics - So polaried that neither party has the balls to call out their own leaders and everybody defends talking points without looking at the facts.

Nobody wants to listen, EGO is the biggest stumbling block to learning, I am bored with the egos, I wish somebody would come up with something interesting and true and not just be part of the haters (either party). I have friends that are liberal and intellegent and not just a point regurgitator, so I am gonna go have a beer with him.
Mr CnK over and out.