Swingers Forum - Here is something to think about..

This was written in 1787 while the United States was in its early days......

AUTHOR: Alexander Fraser Tytler (1747

LOL shows your ignorace I guess...... I suppose your blaming the rep for the housing dissaster yet ALL the proof shows the dems caused it starting with Bill Clinton and B Husan Obamas ACORN ......

What proof?? Show some proof. Are you referring to the Bill that Clinton signed that the 106th Republican Congress passed? A bill that had nothing to do with the issue of today? Sorry your bullshit's already been debunked my friend.

THOUGHT,

Pay no attention. This guy is just a misguided rabble-rouser.

-D-

Show us. post the links. Quit running your cock holster and post it.

If it were 'all there', you'd be providing it. The truth is, it's just empty propaganda.

hahaha. You mean a video that was put together to make it look like Democrats were trying fuck everyone over. IT WAS A REPUBLICAN BILL!!!! HAHA! It was also Bush and republicans pushing for a bailout. HAHA!

HAHAHA Nice FOX report. Thanks for proving that a republican led congress in 2003 coupled with a republican president did nothing.

Why does the truth bother you so much Don????? LOL

LOL thats funny because fox seems to be the only network that talks equaly about both parties.... We report you decide.... well if you are not brainwashed already... LOL

"LOL thats funny because fox seems to be the only network that talks equaly about both parties.... We report you decide.... well if you are not brainwashed already... LOL"

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! That's why they have the racist Bill O'reilly and others that push GOP agenda. Dude STFU! You are a hypocrite pushing more GOP bullshit propaganda.

Please show me an example of Bill Oriely being a racist.. I have to see that...

Here is Fox at it's finest and Bullshit Bill:

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Truth hurts don't it? When November rolls around... We'll see who's smug

-D-

Sorry Don I did not see any racism in either video. But what about that email I sent you where the people in Harlem are voting for obama just because he's black? Ok it is off to work I go.

Hey Donny , sweetheart, Im pretty sure in this ultra politicaly correct world (unless you want to bash the catholic religion or a rep.) there is no way that Bill ORiely can, could or would be or say anything racists. Cry baby bitches would have him off the air within hours... So Try again with that on.. Nothing I repeat NOTHING I posted was false. anyone can look it up if the want to.
So here is another hard question for you. As our country is now rushing away from capotilism and a strong econamy where almost everyone has the chance to get ahead if the work hard. Why do you think it will benefit the masses to head towards socialism/communism which creates an elite class and then everyone else. It also blocks everyone else from being able to get ahead and crushes the will of the people. Tell me the socialist country the is an economic power and... the people are happy??????

I do agree with you on 2 things.. We have to stop monopolies and to get the government out of religion. BUT Ill go further.. I want the government the hell out of our ways completley... They must cut all of our taxes in every class. They must also make it harded to live off social programs.. Jobs are not created in the wellfair state and lower middle class. They are however created in the middle upper middle and upper class. That can not be argued. The taxes have to be cut and spending has to be cut accross the boards.

I dont know why dont you ask the millions of illigal aliens who come as any cost to this country every year why the come here? Like I said if you work hard. that must be the part that bothered you I guess.

sexyct - I grew up on a small, one-family dairy farm. I know hard work (and minimal return) better than most. If you really want to score a debate point, make sure you know what the hell you are talking about!

You need to realize that all systems are flawed (including capitalist and socialist systems) and require continual analysis and adjustment.

In your case, your thinking system seems to have some major flaws - you may want to start your adjustment work at home.

That's why you cap their ability to do it. Regulation my friend. I know plenty of people that work for smaller businesses. If we force the large corps to compete, they won't squash everyone trying. You also, as a consumer get better products and services when people are forced to compete. If we cap corporations like we do other companies such as power, gas etc. We will force them in to submission.

Another thing we need to do is prevent big corporations from patenting that which they did not invent like sequences in the human genome that prevent people from using this information to cure disease. We also need to prevent fuckers like big oil from buying out competitive sciences that compete with their market and mothballing the ideas. This happens a lot and it slows our progress as humans. We have to nip capitalism in the bud with regulation and small dashes of socialism. Pure Capitalism is why we are at war with Iraq instead of the real terrorists, it's why we just paid 700 billion to capitalist pukes, it's why we saw a huge increase in gas that went right into the pockets of big oil. It's why we, here in Utah, we still among the highest prices in the nation for gas long after the rest of the country dropped down.

Utah is filled with fine examples of God-fearing, Republicon Capitalists and a prime example of what happens when you let republicans run the state. We have the shittiest beer on the planet, the church runs the state, there is no gambling, no good porn and everything here is heavily regulated by the church/government here. SMALL GOVERNMENT MY ASS!!! All republicans want is smaller democratic government.

-D-

By the way what happen to the round two second debate post? It seems to have disappeared. Or at least I don't find it anymore. I guess when you start a thread and end up getting spanked you just hit the delete key. You all can run down Fox news all you want. But tell me what is the difference in them and well say CBS? CBS is all for democrats, just listen to Catie every night. If our system isn't working why do we have so many illegals here and more coming every day? By your standards I guess obama's a racist also. Look at who he wants to help the most, the poorest of the poor which just happen to be black. Why not help everybody the same? The country needs a flat income tax with no loop holes no bullshit filing returns, just everyone pay the same percent regardless of income. Then it could be divided between all the taxing authorities.

I looked in all the different sections. Couldn't find it. But oh well.

HIGHWAY - It is gone, I checked the other day myself.

Uhhhhh Don, Japan? They are a very capitalistic society, guns do not play into economy so not sure what that whole blip was about. They do have socialized medicine, I will give you that...but that is about where it ends. Primary ed is much like ours up to 15 yrs of age and indeed is socialized like our own education system. After that, it is a mix, and VERY competitive.

Japan ranks 12th of 178 countries in the Ease of Doing Business Index 2008 and it has one of the SMALLEST governments in the developed world.

AND they are very homogenous society with more taboos and religious dogma than the US (pubic hair is not allowed in movies or anything over there...even the pornos). Religion in Japan tends to practice syncretism, and this results in public Shinto rituals, students praying in school before tests, Buddhist statues in public places, as well as many Christian references etc. Religion is almost expected there. I find it amazing your threw Japan out there, they are pretty much the antithesis of what you are pushing, in fact, their train and public transportation is not even fully nationalized and is very competitive and therefore, very prompt.

Canada - is indeed a mixed economy with twinges of socialism, but not a socialist country. Also, one of the reasons that they do well is because of the partnerships with PRIVATE oil companies and the fact that Canada is one of the few net EXPORTERS of energy in the world. Most industry is private in Canada, and with very little government interference, which has allowed their energy resources to be explored and utilized. Some of this is because they are technically a federation which makes for a smaller national government and focuses more on state (province) rights and governed more locally.

Also, let

CNKISS,

Japan has socialized healthcare, education and welfare. They are a healthy mix of capitalism and socialism, like we should be. There is no forced religious bullshit there. They are culturally diverse with more than one dogma, but none are forced in the laws. They are also virtually devoid of violent crime. Again, you are never going to convince me that capitalism alone is the best thing for a very diverse people.

Think of it this way. Someone will always have to be the garbageman, waitress, maid, fry cook etc. There will always be a poor person. The blue collar must exist for the white collar to function. If the white collar, do not pay the blue enough to pay for healthcare, proper education etc. <b>WHERE DOES IT COME FROM???</b>

Utah is a prime example of what happens when you let Rightwing capitalism. The economy reflects what is happening on the national scale, the government tells you what kind of beer you drink, what kind of porn you look at, if you can abort a fetus, whether you can gamble etc. etc. <b>NO THANKS!</b>

China, one of the most socialist countries in the world has the best economy While I do not totally agree with pure communism, because like Capitalism in it's purest form, it is easily corruptible, like we are seeing in our own government. I am more for a socialized democracy with capitalist interests in the world market. I like free enterprise, so long as the blue collar workers are not walked on with shit wages, no healthcare and poor education. I think heavy regulation of corporate America is in order.

You are only proving my point that capitalism mixed with socialism is the way to go. Thanks for bringing up Japan's transportation. I also like that you mentioned the pubic hair thing as well. They also have bathhouses with prostitutes, open scat and puke fetish and a healthy obsession with underaged schoolgirls. Often the most conservative are the most twisted.



-D-

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Oct 13, 2008 - 10:26 pm
What proof?? Show some proof. Are you referring to the Bill that Clinton signed that the 106th Republican Congress passed? A bill that had nothing to do with the issue of today? Sorry your bullshit's already been debunked my friend.

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http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

Why do people look across the pond and say "(Insert Place) has XYZ therefore we should too."? They work under different rules so they have certain benefits that we don't and we have others that they don't. All that does is compare apples to oranges and tell us that the neighbor's grass is greener. Of course we would want their benefits but probably not their shortcomings. :!

OK don calling bullshit, Don't make me go back and copy paste your quote where you called for all the oil production in the US to be nationalized....you flat out did say that.

As far as the UT economics...where did I get my facts.....I dunno...maybe this: http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews+articleid_2599139.html

yeah, real shitter number one, 3 and 4 in the country of metro areas...fuck I guess you wanted all five of the top five..

The job cuts within law enforcement were not really "cuts" they just decided not rehire. Besides, income is down, spending is down so sales tax is down, so revenue to the state is down...I guess you would like to see the Gov just act like it is not and not make cuts???????

IF you want to bash facts....WTF!?!?!?! china lives like we do??!??!?! Are you kidding me? Fuck next you are gonna tell me the pope is muslim!!

Average monthly wage is around 1800 y or about 300.00 USD whereas the average high school dropout in the US makes around four times that and the average us wage is over 10 times that amount.....shit most americans have a CAR PAYMENT higher than that.

I do business in Japan, and I can tell you that public companies are not even close to as regulated as US companies are fuuuuuck nooooo!!! Does you friend teach in Gov funded institutions or is he in the private sector, is he an entrprenuer, a corporate leader????

Look, I came from nothing, my mom came from less, single mother rasiing kids, I did not have a silver spoon, i busted my fucking ass for everything and guess what, I get fucking pissed when fucking socialists who have not worked as hard as I have, not taken the risks I have and not lost it all and had to scrape back want to tell me I should pay more taxes than the fucking dude down the street who has played it safe his whole life at a state job so he knows he will never get laid off, and have a good retirement and does not make the money i do. Fuck that, it is bullshit no matter which way you slice it. I pay more but use less.

PS all I pointed out the only thing they have more nationalized than we do is healthcare, and even then it is not fully socialized. They have a great corporate funded healthcare that is f-ing genius!

I am still waiting...I want a firm socialist (democracy or otherwise) country that has government owned and controlled enterprises like oil, banking or the likes that beats the US in human rights, quality of life, freedom of choice and overall economics. You brought up China not me, just please don't go to Cuba next, or Venuzuela.

(Here I will even help, the best example out there is Sweden, but I am way to familiar with Sweden to start an argument there, they are moving to the right becuase the 80% tax rates are killing them.)

Yes I would like to see oil nationalized. If we do not, I would like to see caps put on how much oil companies can charge us. You know, like they do with natural gas, electricity and other utilities that are required to make our society function. I do know that no private corporation should be holding our country hostage to pass bullshit legislation to "Drill here and Drill Now!" I think those fucking pigs should take the loss and not us. I am for the people as a whole having stock in our economy as well. I did not say that the government should control the market as you are implying. The point I am making is that 6 percent of the world shouldn't control the entire world economy on the backs of the rest and the majority of those backs can even afford to feed cloth or get healthcare for themselves. You'll never convince me that free enterprise with little to no regulation works. THAT IS WHY WE JUST SHELLED OUT 700 BILLION!


Yes I have ran my own design firm. You can bitch about regulation all you want, but if we don't regulate, we have assholes hiring illegals, assholes ripping off their investors like Enron, we have assholes overlending and making the tax payers foot the bill. Your way of thinking is why we are paying 700 Billion my friend. <b>DEREGULATION IS WHAT CAUSED THIS ISSUE WITH THE HOUSING INDUSTRY!</b> So you'll have to excuse me if I call <b>BULLSHIT!</b>

Oh and I dig you bringing up that this State is doing good with job growth and money coming in, but the republican led government just cut a bunch of vital programs (354 Million), to make up for a deficit. HMMM! HAHA!! Sorry buddy, not gonna cut it.

http://www.sltrib.com/utahpolitics/ci_10564321

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"The job cuts within law enforcement were not really "cuts" they just decided not rehire."
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HAHA They lost twelve slots man. Don't bullshit me. How can income be down if the job growth is number 1, man? You are talking out of your ass. You're telling me that the economy is doing good, but there isn't enough taxes coming in from income, sales etc. to cover the budget. You're not very good at math are ya?

Anyway... you say you busted your fucking ass to get where you are. There are plenty of blue collar people who bust their fucking asses as well my friend. I am actually quit disturbed that you can turn your fucking nose up at people that work harder than you, because they choose not to be self-employed. That rather than risk their savings on a risky investment, they put it away just in case one of them may need to see a doctor. They choose what their Republican-destroyed education could give them. There are plenty of people that bust their fucking asses and get ripped off by companies. There are also those that play stocks and get rich. There is no busting your ass in that. I struggled the whole time against large corporations my friend. I know what hard work is. Common sense will tell you that even if everyone in the world put in the same effort and had the same strong will and motivation, SOMEONE HAS TO BE THE WORKER BEE! Do these people not deserve a fair living wage that provides them the ability to take care of themselves and their families???? I am sorry, but I am not buying your bullshit. Unregulated capitalism is just a vehicle to corruption and oppression far worse than any government will ever do.
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-D-

P.S. Remember in a purely capitalist society, there will always be those on the bottom else, it wouldn't work. So, no, not everyone has the opportunity to be wealthy and provide healthcare, a good education, shelter and food for their families and themselves.

Those on the 'right' get pissed at welfare fraud, an illegal activity. Those on the 'left' get pissed at tax breaks allowing the fat cats to line their pockets with obscene wealth, an activity made legal by tax law (and still they cheat).

Why not tighten the clamps on welfare abuse (apparently there is a huge amount of money to be saved and used for the enforcement effort)? That way, those who live on the needy fringe can be assured of not getting anything extra! Or perhaps, we shouldn

T-rose*** what you are proposing would move us closer to "SOCIALISM" I think we all have seen how well that works. Mother Russia finally is working more on a Capitalist society. (I have worked for a Russian. He loves America so he can feed his family and live a great life here.)
The very last thing we need is more Government in our lives. They can't even pass a fix on the latest debacle of housing finance. They had to put over 400 pages of add ons in it.
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Finally since you responded to my post. Here is my response back. You suggest we put caps on Corporations so they cannot pass on increased expenses. I believe you understand that your income would then be Capped since the employer can no longer operate his business and pay all the taxes and costs. Next** do you have a 401 K? If you do, your 401k will suffer since it is invested in the stock market and corporations pay dividends to shareholders. Your 401k would not be able to grow.
*****
Just more to think about. So on November 4th... Everyone get out an vote for what your candidate.... but please get all the information you can from ""ALL"" sources and not just one.

2ofus -

Aside from going to great length to show that you know more about the basics of the "working" end of the oil industry than most, just what the hell is your point?

The point I take away from your post is that Big Oil faces obstacles just like any business.

Fortunately for them, they are working with obscene, record profits in order to cope.

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Oct 14, 2008 - 10:29 pm
Yes it said under pressure of Clinton. It did say Clinton signed anything into law. The only bill that was signed into law was passed by a Republican majority congress. Sorry, no matter how hard you try this is not Clinton's fault. Nice try though.

I want fair compensation for people that work. I want everyone to have the ability get healthcare, eat and have a quality education. That's what I want.

People like you bitch about poor and impoverished areas and people desperate to find quality jobs that will make them enough to feed themselves, get decent healthcare and their families, clothing and shelter and a good education for their kids, but these fucking greedy corporations don't want to pay enough so that people can provide for themselves, nor do they want to provide the benefits themselves, nor do they want pay their part to the government to help everyone. No wonder a lot of these people turn to crime. These same fucking idiots that bitch about illegal aliens coming in to suck of the tit of America, but don't pay attention that it's the very fucking capitalist pigs they advocate that are fucking bring them here for cheap labor.

Your way gives absolute power to a very small percentage of people, The majority of the remain people are barely making it, while you have a small percentage in between. You don't need the government to oppress you, Corporations will, economically and you won't even get a fucking vote. That is why this country has very little culture and why we are all fat, lazy and uneducated. UNREGULATED CAPITALISM AT IT'S FINEST! NO THANKS!
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You're joking, right? Either that or you are trying to split hairs. If he hadn't pressured Fannie, would things be different? I'll bet they would. Don't blame ONLY the Rep congress. Clinton could have vetoed the thing if it wasn't good but he was too busy getting his pole waxed.

I want to have sex with Jenna Jameson, Briana Banks and Tera Patrick. That ain't happening on it's own. It isn't my right. It is my right to pursue that dream but not my right to have it. Healthcare is the same thing. It is not a right, nor should it be. You want it, you earn it. You can't, oh well. Food? See above. As far as education goes, we have that. Problem is people don't have to pay for bad choices. Girl gets knocked up and goes on WIC, welfare, etc, etc. Drops out of school and sucks on the govt tit. Sorry, I didn't get off on her. Why should I pay for her getting knocked up and being unable and/or unwilling to earn a living. That should be HER problem. Same with some guy except he cannot get pregnant. Don't want to pay attention in school? Flunk out. Save that seat and therefore the resources for someone who wants to learn. Go beg in the streets for all I care. You can be an example to others who are considering being in that same uneducated group.

Way to go. Take a few classes and you can be a shrink. You think you know me, don't you? Where have I bitched about such an issue? I don't want to pay for somebody else. Just myself. So no, I am not interested in paying for the govt to help everyone. BTW, are we talking about the same govt that cannot even balance it's budget using on a "cash basis"? That one that you want to manage healthcare? I manage my own healthcare. When I didn't have insurance, I had to pay off a debt for a couple of years. I have held jobs that had insurance and others that didn't. If I am not qualified to get jobs with health insurance, it is MY FAULT. Not yours, his, hers, etc, etc. As to illegals, it is the people that want them gone but not willing to do it. Hence the politicians do nothing. Why did this bailout get done so quickly? Because enough people wanted it done. Oh, we would want illegals gone but we don't have the stomach to do what is necessary. Blame the people. They want to do it the nice way.

They are fat, lazy and uneducated because there is no need to be otherwise. Which one is easier? Sitting on your ass or getting a job? We spend more per capita on education than other countries and get less results. Why? No consequence. Take away all the safeguards and watch what happens. People have to fend for themselves. Those that cannot will be an excellent example for those that can and will. We force kids to go to school. Why? Let them go as they please. If they cannot get a job later on, starve. They will be an example to the next generation as to why they need to work hard.

Lastly, perhaps you need to try an extended stay in Singapore. The are a socialistic country like what you want. Maybe you will find it exactly what you want, maybe you will learn it isn't all that good. Having been on that side that proudly proclaims that they are socialism that works, I would highly recommend some socialist like you try it and see if you like it. Of course, you may not like the way they do things when they trample all over the rights you don't have anymore. Blaming capitalism for this mess, are we? Think again. We have what you wanted. Capitalism with an injection of socialism. Now you want more socialism to fix that too?

"You're joking, right? Either that or you are trying to split hairs. If he hadn't pressured Fannie, would things be different? I'll bet they would. Don't blame ONLY the Rep congress. Clinton could have vetoed the thing if it wasn't good but he was too busy getting his pole waxed."

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Show us all how Bill Clinton "pressured" them. He can't pressure anyone without legislation. The only bill passed with respect to the industry was passed by a then Republican led senate and congress. HMMMMM So you have to excuse me if I don't buy the bullshit my friend.


As far as your remarks on a Socialist Country, I've already said my peace. There are plenty of countries with socialized healthcare, no guns and low crime with just as many freedoms as we have here, so quit with your fear mongering bullshit. Almost half Canada now wants to Nationalize their oil because of greedy capitalist pigs. The times are turning.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1125954428543_75/?hub=Canada

People are tired of 6% of the world controlling the other 94% economically. Most of you bitch about how poor <b>UNDERFUNDED</b> public (socialized) healthcare is, but it's the right that always attacks the funding, like with education and then bitches that the system works. <b>Complaining how poor the system is even in those circumstances doesn't negate the fact that with no system in place many people get NONE AT ALL!</b> Something is always better than nothing. Use your fucking brain.

<b>CNKISS wrote:</b>

"show me ONE country that has nationalized oil and has a better quality of life than the us. "
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There are no Socialist Democracies that have oil resources. You want to compare "Apples and Oranges" again, you are trying to compare an American democracy to dictators like Venezuelan Dictator Hugo Chavez or the dictators in the Middle East. NOT GONNA WORK! I'm calling bullshit. We have a vote they do not.

A great example of how it would work, would be Alaska. Everyone in Alaska gets a dividend from the pipeline and it works <b>FUCKING GREAT!!!!</b> The same would apply to a Nationalize effort. You either let the government compete on behalf of the people or you totally nationalize it. Again Canada is getting close to a even match on those who want Nationalized Oil because of price gouging capitalist pigs.

http://in.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idINT31778020080812?sp=true


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Under capitalism, the chief means of production

My point is,"Don't talk the talk if You Don't Know What You Are Talking About." Yes, Oil and Gas industry is finally making some money for a change. 1st, if you recall, stocks, profits, and money was tight during the Clinton Stage to the Oil & Gas Industry.

We, in the industry were out of work, rigs being cut up for scrap iron, and it was the industry that tried to warn the dumb Democrats it would come back to haunt them. Also, do you remember the taking of salt water out of the earth and people make their cracks as the storage of Oil & Gas in underground caves was, "STUPID?" Check your records and it was the Democrates that voted against it. Therefore, taking that information, it wasn't the Republicans that vetoed it, it was the Deomocrats and now it is bitting all of us in the butt.

Then came the sale of offshore Ca., East Coast, and Florida for Oil & Gas. The Deocrats sold it, Oil Compaines paid the billions of dollars for it, and then told us we couldn't drill it. It would be the same as you buying a new car for cash and can't drive it. Makes no sense to me.

Then here in the Rockies, with the finds we have discovered and put billions of dollars in it, the Oil and Gas Companies put their investments into at risk to see if it would happen. Oil & Gas was there, and this was first started by T. Boone Pickens and Chevron USA which its board are mainly Republicans. They had the Balls and Foresite to do it. Like in the Stock Markets, you got the balls and win that's great, but if you don't, "Don't Bitch. It was you that took the gamble and lost and that's what we'll get if we get a Presidet that is a Deomocrat and knows nothing. Check Obama's record. He's a lawyer, and we plenty of them lawyers in Washington today and that's what's wrong. We don't need another one.

So you tell me. Why shouldn't they, The Oil & Gas Companies who took the risk receive their just money owed. We pay the same prices like everyone else does, and yet there are those that set on the side lines and want the money and bitch, but don't have the balls to do so. They want a free ticket, keep their investments at no risk, and let the Do'ers take the risk and investments.

So YOU GO figure. just like the Detroit people now loosening their jobs and security. They re the ones with the Unions and getting their parts from overseas which in the long run bit them in the butts due to cost and loss of jobs. We, "The Petroleum Industy have went through this time and time again, and didn't bitch, but then when we finally get our, Just Due. We talked, worked the hours, weather, and most of all took the risk. But like Welfare that the deomocrats are so for, they want everything for free and at no risk takings.

Posted By: CHRKE2 Reply posted on:
Oct 15, 2008 - 11:10 am
I look at it this way:

10% of Joe Blow's, $50, 000, is $5,000. Relatively modest.

10% of Big Oil's $1____________________ (you stick in the number of zeroes you think would be accurate) is $1___________________ (you do the math). Relatively BLOATED (my opinion).

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So profits should be capped at a dollar figure then? IOW, no matter how much you spend, you should only make $X? If they made 40 billion but they spent 400 billion, how does that not come into the equation? That is why we have percentages and not the media hyped $X billion dollars "record profit" crap.

Uhhh great article don you could have worded it HALF DO NOT want it nationalized, actually MORE than half.

Look you have a whole swath of the population that thinks government is the answer anytime they feel any pain. They don't want to have to work through it themselves, is it any surprise that these are the lower income folks who are not the people who create jobs but the ones who are looking for jobs?

You know what, this is where swinging imitates life, the people who go to the gym, eat right and take care of themselves gets labled as "ken and barbie" types and get lit up for being picky about who they play with. Sorry, I work my ass off at the gym and have to be nails on my nutrition to keep from being 500lbs, but I do it, so then I have to explain myself as why i do not want to play with somebodies wife that outweighs me by 100lbs!

Should we have swinger socialism where we have to fuck the ugly people as well as the hotties? NO, hell no!!

Look socialism is a great idea, but that is where it ends, becuase humans fuck it up, it will never work, it cannot work, becuase you have the same basic divisions, you have some people who like to get by doing the minimum and then you have the one that always strive for more, just like in sports, you always have one guys who wants it more. And those guys will always be in control and in power.

And I am not blaming this mess on a poli party, this is a mess top to bottom, greed, loose loan regulations and a society of free for me attitude. The regulation of the banking industry was the problem in this one, the gov made lenders open it up (for noble reasons) and it made it to easy to be abused.

Unlike you Don, I will categorically blame both parties on this one. We are all paying the price for the amazing economy the loose lending guidlines gave us for the last 16 yrs. We were living on borrowed time and money.

Uhhh great article don you could have worded it HALF DO NOT want it nationalized, actually MORE than half.

<hr>

Yeah, my point is that the trend is changing with recent events my friend. Unregulated capitalism is showing it's affect on the world market. HAHA!! Hello McFly!!??

You also wrote:

"Is it ever really surprising that the have nots ALWAYS want socialism?"

<hr>

Of course if you're rich and not struggling, like the vast majority of the country, you want your fat greedy pockets to remain full. I agree. If you weren't <b>lucky</b> in your endeavor you'd be right beside me.

I never said I think the country should be entirely socialist. I said certain thing need to be. Things that make the society better. Healthcare, Education, FUEL etc. You can't prove to me that unregulated Capitalism is working either buddy. We do so well because there are Unions that prevent capitalists from taking everything and giving nothing. They force pigs to pay.

-D-

Come one man... <b>NOT EVERYONE CAN EARN IT!!!!! HELLO!!!!!</b> There are people that can't for their mental capacities earn it, There are people that are too old. There are people that are too young. There are people that are in <b>many areas</b> that republicans have cut the education funds to, that struggled through school and be qualified for jobs that earn them the wage to pay for the healthcare. Again, you have no common sense. The health of the community relies on contribution from it's members. If you take and never give... HMMMM!!! GO FIGURE!


Oh and by that article you mean Clinton enforced a 20 year old <u>law???</u>


-D-

I never said Dems weren't at fault. You were trying to blame Clinton. He just enforced a 20 year old (at the time) "Community Reinvestment Act". It's you placing blame on someone it doesn't belong.

In your infinite wisdom, you wrote:

"Ya think! I would LOVE to have my income averaged with the Mars family, Gates or the Sultan of Brunei. Why? Because it bumps me up WITHOUT work. If asked to work, no thanx. "

<hr>

Spend a day pouring concrete on a highrise or building highways and tell me that isn't fucking work. Come on man. Without people doing that shit, your corporations wouldn't be making shit. Let's ask all the security officers making 5.05 per hour here. What about the people at the DMV making 12 dollars and hour. You can't see past the end of your own nose.

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Oct 15, 2008 - 12:10 pm
I never said Dems weren't at fault. You were trying to blame Clinton. He just enforced a 20 year old (at the time) "Community Reinvestment Act". It's you placing blame on someone it doesn't belong.

Spend a day pouring concrete on a highrise or building highways and tell me that isn't fucking work. Come on man. Without people doing that shit, your corporations wouldn't be making shit. Let's ask all the security officers making 5.05 per hour here. What about the people at the DMV making 12 dollars and hour. You can't see past the end of your own nose.
===============================================================

Oh, he did a little more than that. Look at the article I cited. The senate voted to scrap it and he threatened a veto if the house concurred.

Been there, done that. Actually, had a time where I wasn't able to even have such a job and have to "borrow from peter to pay paul" with my credit cards. I even had a time where I was drafted in the Singapore military where I was paid a princely sum of $180 SGD ($90+ USD) a MONTH. Work weeks were from 0800-1700 Mon -Fri and 0800 - 1300 Sat. Of cousre anyone in the military will tell you that is a wet dream. So now what?

Oh and fellas... I think most of the country is siding with my views right now. These guys chalk it up to poor campaigning. I chalk it up to Obama being convincing in his effort to change tired policy.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27188680

I admit he enforced a program Bush Sr. "nudged". Wow, so you are saying back in 1999 they knew and Bush Junior did nothing?

As far as 'principles' are concerned they don't apply to these vastly different things, because one is not a necessity and the other is.

Don wrote:
"Yeah, my point is that the trend is changing with recent events my friend. .... HAHA!! Hello McFly!!??"

Uh check your facts again mcfly, Canadians moved to the right with their last election so how is the trend changing towards your view...maybe I don't get it???? Hell even the French moved to the right.

Americans are moving to the left because of clueless idealists who have no foundational belief in the fundamentals that made this country the strongest, freest, nation in the world. You love to call out America as being a shitpile, but where is better? You hate capitalism because you are not part of it. Just like the people in the swinging world hate all the cliques...because they are not part of them, and they say..."I would not want to join them anyhow, they are stuck on themselves..." but given the opportunity you would jump at it.

And therein lies the fundamental failure of socialist ideals, they only work when everybody is equally miserable, as soon as one person moves up, then you have a fight again, and in socialism, the most corrupt deviant minds are the one who rise to the top as opposed to capitalism where the hardest working brightest minds can rise to the top. Yes there is corruption in capitalism, but the whole premise of capitalism is different, build a better product, innovate, compete...that is how you get ahead...there is no drive like that for socialism...it is simply do your part. People have an innate nature to compete, to rise above...nobody wants to be average.

Guess what, those that are smarter, more creative more inspired will always do better, is that wrong?

Who said I was not struggling, who said I was rich? AND who the fuck are you to call me lucky? NOW you have pissed me off, luck had nothing to do with it, how is this for luck an accident at work left me partially paralyzed and out of a job, almost lost my home and my car. No college education and no fucking rich parents to bail me out. What did I do? I pulled my ass up and had to figure out a whole new career, a whole new way of life and took it upon myself to learn new skills and worked my way up until I gained enough knowledge to start my own companies. Now I am on to many other enterprises and have worked my ass off and continue to do so, I struggle every month to make sure the company does well enough to make payroll, to grow my company in hard times, to make sure my clients are taken care of.

Yeah I have made some good money and am always in position to make more, where the fuck do you come off thinking I should be giving to my workers who have always been paid a salary, never took a risk, never went months even years without pay building the company, yeah I made it off of their backs, but If I would not have taken the risk in the first place they would not have a job, so how I am the bad guy all of the sudden for giving them a job? If they can get better pay somewhere else, let them, good for them...hell I hope they get sick of working for other people and start their own companies.

SOCIALISM DOES NOT WORK, it never has and it never will. deal with it. and the more government gets involved the more things generally get fucked up. If we had less national control and more state control, we would all be much better off.

OK so then show one country that has a nationalized oil and energy program that is doing as well as the US. You will not find it because it does not exist, your fundamental argument is flawed or it would have worked already.

I don't need to jump off a bridge to know I can't fly...I can trust the fact that all the other fuckers who did it and failed before me are proof enough.

I am seriously tired of this thread, you have yet to show a good solid fact, you come back with smart ass comments and very little substantive proof. I think anybody who takes the time to read this whole thread will be better off reading it and hopefully learned something from it but frankly this back and forth is retarded, you have not responded with any good examples of what you are proposing as working, fuck, you brought up china for hells sake.

CNKISS wrote:

"Americans are moving to the left because of clueless idealists who have no foundational belief in the fundamentals that made this country the strongest, freest, nation in the world."

<hr>

Again, it made only a small percentage of the population of the country wealthy of the backs of the many. It made out military might powerful. Just long enough in fact, to make big enemies with some of the other largest countries in the world. Now we are in a perpetual cycle of having to go to war and fight off the impoverished wanting adequate pay and benefits, so that the rich can be richer and the world's resources and environment can be depleted more and more. This issue has been contested since the beginning of Capitalism my friend. Captialism was not a fundemental of this country. It began in the late 19th century during the industrial revolution. If it were not for teamsters we would still be in soup lines. You can talk until you are blue in the face, but you'll never convince me that the rich making money off the backs of the underpaid poor is the answer. That 6% of the world should control the entire market. <b>SORRY!!!!! NOT GONNA CONVINCE ME!</b>

You wrote:

"You hate capitalism because you are not part of it. Just like the people in the swinging world hate all the cliques...because they are not part of them, and they say..."I would not want to join them anyhow, they are stuck on themselves..." but given the opportunity you would jump at it. "

<hr>

I AM A PART OF IT! I get fucked by it daily. I am paying my part of that 700 Billion. I am paying it at the pump, when some fucking pig jacks up prices to under some bullshit excuse that we need to drill here and drill now. You guys are fuckin fooling yourselves. I have been on both sides of capitalism and I can buy stock any time I want. You are no better than me dude. I just choose to give a better wage to those who get us there while you tightwad ass wants to bleed em dry and throw em to the fucking dogs. How very noble of you.


Socialism never works??? HAHAHA One of the strongest economies in the world right now is SOCIALIST MY FRIEND!

When are you two shoulder-biters gonna realize that I am not saying this should be a socialist country. It needs to be a mix of both. I will repeat healthcare and education should be socialized while welfare should be reformed to make those able to work for the benefits and finally oil should be at the very least treated like power and heavily regulated and nationalized efforts here. <b>I would much rather be bent over buy a government that I can vote and change than a corporation with no regulation. </b>

Oh and you are mistaking me for someone that gives a shit about your investments. I care about me and my own and I will get my money without exploiting others. I am all for small business and a competitive market. I am about community. Total capitalism is all about taking with very little giving.

People that aren't healthy or educated bring down society. They make up for their shortcomings with crime. They take out their frustration on others. They spread their discontent to others. Why are their people that are uneducated and unhealthy? CAPITALISM! Capitalism breeds consumerism. All these corporations lying, double dealing, cheating and stealing to take as much as they can from whomever they can, sitting on mounds of money they'll never spend and buying up all competitive technogy and moth-balling it, slowing progress of the species. Making us fatter and dumber. YAY FOR YOU!!!!

GOLF CLAP!

Oil profits I have heard are around 6%. They pay those profits to their shareholders. Now in Venezuela the oil company is owned by the Dictator. I dont buy at Citco anymore. It is my vote with my wallet to not contribute to Venezuela. Same as I choose to boycott institutions that I find detrimental. Think about that everyone.

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Oct 15, 2008 - 4:15 pm
CNKISS wrote:

I AM A PART OF IT! I get fucked by it daily. I am paying my part of that 700 Billion. I am paying it at the pump, when some fucking pig jacks up prices to under some bullshit excuse that we need to drill here and drill now. You guys are fuckin fooling yourselves. I have been on both sides of capitalism and I can buy stock any time I want. You are no better than me dude. I just choose to give a better wage to those who get us there while you tightwad ass wants to bleed em dry and throw em to the fucking dogs. How very noble of you.

Socialism never works??? HAHAHA One of the strongest economies in the world right now is SOCIALIST MY FRIEND!

When are you two shoulder-biters gonna realize that I am not saying this should be a socialist country. It needs to be a mix of both. I will repeat healthcare and education should be socialized while welfare should be reformed to make those able to work for the benefits and finally oil should be at the very least treated like power and heavily regulated and nationalized efforts here. I would much rather be bent over buy a government that I can vote and change than a corporation with no regulation.

Why are their people that are uneducated and unhealthy? CAPITALISM! Capitalism breeds consumerism.

All these corporations lying, double dealing, cheating and stealing to take as much as they can from whomever they can, sitting on mounds of money they'll never spend and buying up all competitive technogy and moth-balling it, slowing progress of the species. Making us fatter and dumber. YAY FOR YOU!!!!

==============================================================

Ah, but which part? Obviously not the 6% you speak of.

Nam had a bad rice year and had to import broken rice (cheap stuff) to feed their people. They allowed the farmers to make profit. Now they EXPORT rice. Why is that? Socialism works? Which country are you speaking of? China? The one that is getting less and less communistic?

It already is a mix of both or have you started talking of some other country. Oh, just not enough communism for you, is that it? Again, why are you here? Singapore does all that already and pretty well too. Of course, their leaders are paid differently. They are paid about 67% of what they make in the private sector and the rest is commission based on where the country GDP is at. Even they could not escape the capitalistic lure.

And how is the birthplace of communism faring today? How are all the communistic countries faring? Seems they do better the more they are capitalist based. Wonder why that is.

And I am sure that somewhere in the bowels of GM, Ford and Chrysler, you will find the 500 mog carburetor along with Aladdin's flying carpet.

Sorry buddy gas is down nearly a dollar. I think I will trust the department of energy data over your speculation.

you wrote:

"Ah, but which part? Obviously not the 6% you speak of. "

<hr>

and you're with the rest of the 94% too HAHA!

You wrote:

"China? The one that is getting less and less communistic?"

<hr>

I mean the Socialist country in Asia. I am here to ensure that <b>my</b> country prospers as a whole and not as a pyramid. If you want that, why don't you move to Iraq or Afghanistan. You like few people being on top living of the work of others. Perhaps you should move. It won't be tolerated here. That's why Obama is slapping McCain around, even in this final debate. Even McCain wants to pay vouchers for everyone's healthcare HAHA! Talk about throwing money at the problem. Like his school voucher idea, it won't go to everyone and many people will lose their current plans. GO RIGHTIE GO!!!

It is useless to try to convince a True liberal that the path that Obama wants to take us down will lead to socialism and Marxism. they are set to believe what they read in the papers and hear on T.V. because it is easier than researching the facts for themselves. I am not going to do any name calling here but there are some in this forum that refuse to research for themselves they want you to prove to them that they are wrong and they want you to prove to them that you are right. Either way your proof will never be enough, it will be made up blogger B.S. Only if it was on CNN/CBS/ABC/ETC will it be considered as fact, they would never report anything that was not fact. (just ask Dan Rather).
the fact remains that Barak Obama has surrounded himself with people who are questionable at best and traitors and terrorists at worst. he has befriended a home grown terrorist who tried to blow up the pentagon in the 60's. He as listened to the racist Anti-American Rhetoric of his religious leader for 20 odd years. his childhood Mentor was a devout Communist, those are just a few of Obama's friends and acquaintances. Shouldn't that be enough?
Just something to think about............America has always been know as the Land of Opportunity. "Under the Spread the Wealth plan" there will be no more opportunity only servitude and freedoms ruled with an iron fist
. As a Famous DEMOCRAT once said. "ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY"
We may not have all come over on the same ship, but we are all in the same boat.

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Oct 15, 2008 - 9:11 pm
I am not looking down on the upper class. I am expecting them to be accountable to the communities that they are a part of, unlike you.

You want to use it up and spit it out.

The prices are already nearing what they were before Bush took office. You know, back when Clinton was in.

Even McCain admitted tonight the economy plummeted in the last eight years.

Nov 4th will be here soon. Who knows what will happen. All I know is that more and more people are getting sick of unregulated capitalist pigs.

Again, you are only strengthening my argument against you by showing apathy to your fellow American's strife. You are what is wrong with this economy. You want to move in, make your quick dollar and offer nothing to a community that is crumbling.

We have some of the worst violence, most corrupt system and all because any effort to stop it all in the way of legislation and funding is always cut by the fuckin republitards.

Obama's gonna turn us into communists. WHAT A FUCKIN JOKE!

================================================================

Companies are accountable to the shareholders. Not you or I unless we are shareholders. They have to operate within the laws laid down. Beyond that, they owe neither you nor I anything. They are NOT married to the community nor is the community married to them. IF the community finds a better deal, they can and will go that direction. Would the community spend more to keep that enterprise afloat? Probably not.

I don't know what business you are in but that is NOT a stable profitable way to make money any more than to kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

What is your definition of "near"? What were the prices then and now adjusted in today's money?

He is running on the platform of "I am not Bush". He will say anything to get elected. Just as Obama or any politician. Remember what Biden said about Obama being inexperienced and what not? Now he is going to be working under Obama. Politicians from BOTH sides of the aisle will say anything to get elected or a job.

Yes, they blamed the kulaks in the USSR for all sorts of things and had them executed or sent to the Gulag. Funny thing is that they seem to need them now.

Nonsense. It is about a symbiotic relationship. A community that is broke cannot buy anything. Sure, you make a killing this quarter. Business is more about whether you can survive in the long run and not just that you had a killer quarter. Of course it doesn't mean that the business owes the community anything. However, they should work together on some level or nobody will benefit.

Been outside of the country much? To other places that also have corruption, etc, etc? I'm sure that the Dems are above any personal gain for themselves. I'm sure they will vote for items needed and no pork barrel projects. NOT.

Dunno, the things he does talk of does have communistic leanings. What do you expect anyone to think?

so glad they got banned to the outer reaches....

T-rose ** I finally got it.......
YOU ARE AFRAID... you went to a college and drank the liberal cool aid. You couldn't stand up to the professors that are liberal and want socialism for everyone. That William Ares fool is promoting socialism. I think you don't want to work. You want to be a bum and take from the system. So congrats to you. But, I will keep posting up that you are a Socialist in your thinking. I just can't let that happen to a country I love. There are countries where you can relocate and live that dream if you want. Hell, grab some of the Hollywood non thinkers and take em with you. Congrats again to you. Do you need help packing????