Ft Hood, Christmas day bomber, New york city, and today an egyptian man got on a plane in New york with a bag full of weapons? WTF is going on? Is it now time for a change @ the Dept of homeland security?
1 year and 5 months later do you feel safer, the same, or are you feeling a bit paranoid? Just askin.
OH Come on, Someone has to be interested in this. Am I wrong? Am I right? What the FUCK!!!!
What a bunch of sissy's Dont let The Cricket scare you.
What a bunch of sissy's Dont let The Cricket scare you.
First, I personally believe in this statement - "The man who would choose security over freedom deserves neither." ~Thomas Jefferson
I DO NOT expect some one else to be responsible for my security - life is full of risk and I'll calculate and take that risk on my own! BTW, swinging can be quite risky in many ways.
Second, here's a short list of what happened with "security" in the recent past... http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/1/8/823179/-Post-9-11-Domestic-Terror-Attacks-During-Bush-Administration
My question is more along the lines of - when did most Americans turn into such fuck'n pussy's?? And it sure seems to be a lot of the so called "tough, constitutional, gov. stay out of my biz" conservatives!
I DO NOT expect some one else to be responsible for my security - life is full of risk and I'll calculate and take that risk on my own! BTW, swinging can be quite risky in many ways.
Second, here's a short list of what happened with "security" in the recent past... http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/1/8/823179/-Post-9-11-Domestic-Terror-Attacks-During-Bush-Administration
My question is more along the lines of - when did most Americans turn into such fuck'n pussy's?? And it sure seems to be a lot of the so called "tough, constitutional, gov. stay out of my biz" conservatives!
see I knew there was someone interested in it. All be it posting from a web site that has been shown to be prone to lieing to make a political point, at least he had the balls to post it.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
"provide for the common defence"
Maybe it is because it is their JOB!!!!!
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
"provide for the common defence"
Maybe it is because it is their JOB!!!!!
Yeah, I'm bored - took your bait since its just as fun for me to ;-)
But dude, you've got to get better at this, your not even getting my blood pressure up (which is what I think your really attempting - lol). Please provide valid proof that the site is known for lying if your going to make such a bold statement. And further more please prove which claims on the web site are false - I guarantee you I can prove there true, I know right where to go for the official legal documents! BTW, that was only a partial list, I've got 10 times more info but I knew you'd come back with the type of stuff you did so, as a chess player, I've saved lots of weapons for later use.
The main difference between the first 8+ years (yes I include Clinton and others times to, I dont discriminate) after the biggest defense that was missed (and actually killed a lot of people) - 911, is that the ones happening now are being released to the public (still not enough to my liking though) where the others we're being kept under wraps as much as possible to make it look as if all was good and happy in the world - your a victim of pleasantville.
"provide for the common defense" - Common: "belonging to or participated in by a community as a whole." Isn't this is exactly whats being done right now? Citizens (of the common community) seem to be doing a pretty good job so far. "Where has the security gone?" you ask yet you actually defeat yourself in your own initial statements since all of these people we're taken care of before killing 2000+ people! Not 12 people that was easily beat out by a natural flood killing 30! Maybe this discussion should be based on how many humans have been killed as result of poor execution of "Constitutional" security?? Another difference between now and then is what civil liberties are and are not being trampled on while its being done - did you miss the civil liberties part of the Constitution/Declaration of Independence??. It's getting to be like the bible - people pick, choose and define the parts that fit their personal needs to artificially give them warm fuzzies for their insane insecurity and fears.
Also BTW, I'm one of those people who believe the Constitution for the United States of America is an evolving document that should change with the times. The founding fathers (as amazingly brilliant as they we're) could not have even fathomed the concept of Apache helicopters, nukes or even air conditioned vehicles that can go over 100mph - cell phones - the INTERNET!
But dude, you've got to get better at this, your not even getting my blood pressure up (which is what I think your really attempting - lol). Please provide valid proof that the site is known for lying if your going to make such a bold statement. And further more please prove which claims on the web site are false - I guarantee you I can prove there true, I know right where to go for the official legal documents! BTW, that was only a partial list, I've got 10 times more info but I knew you'd come back with the type of stuff you did so, as a chess player, I've saved lots of weapons for later use.
The main difference between the first 8+ years (yes I include Clinton and others times to, I dont discriminate) after the biggest defense that was missed (and actually killed a lot of people) - 911, is that the ones happening now are being released to the public (still not enough to my liking though) where the others we're being kept under wraps as much as possible to make it look as if all was good and happy in the world - your a victim of pleasantville.
"provide for the common defense" - Common: "belonging to or participated in by a community as a whole." Isn't this is exactly whats being done right now? Citizens (of the common community) seem to be doing a pretty good job so far. "Where has the security gone?" you ask yet you actually defeat yourself in your own initial statements since all of these people we're taken care of before killing 2000+ people! Not 12 people that was easily beat out by a natural flood killing 30! Maybe this discussion should be based on how many humans have been killed as result of poor execution of "Constitutional" security?? Another difference between now and then is what civil liberties are and are not being trampled on while its being done - did you miss the civil liberties part of the Constitution/Declaration of Independence??. It's getting to be like the bible - people pick, choose and define the parts that fit their personal needs to artificially give them warm fuzzies for their insane insecurity and fears.
Also BTW, I'm one of those people who believe the Constitution for the United States of America is an evolving document that should change with the times. The founding fathers (as amazingly brilliant as they we're) could not have even fathomed the concept of Apache helicopters, nukes or even air conditioned vehicles that can go over 100mph - cell phones - the INTERNET!
The Daily Kos? LTFOL!!!!! Proof enough.
My attempt was not to anger anyone. My attempt was to just get any kind of response out of anyone.Since personal attacks and dimwitted closed minded people wrote OP peices attacking individuals on here it has been very diffacult at best to start a conversation.
Since you declare that we have all been left in the dark, (BTW I agree)these recent efforts,Ft. Hood, (terror attrack no doubt, Xmas day attack on an air liner, terror attempt, and now NYC. I think you are correct on the issue of imformation.These are deliberately set by an admin. lost in the dark. They are trying to show us they are in control, when indeed they are not.
2 The Constitution is a living document I agree, if it werent slavery would still be intact. Our world changed on 9-11 when it should have changed long before that date. Terrorist and Jihadist know now they are protected by the constitution giving them free raigne to do as they choose, are they more limited since 9-11 hell yes, by taking the fight to them we have put quite a bite out of their abilities to operate world wide. But are you saying it is not up to our government to protect our nations savriegnty? is that it? including our borders and now the world is regulated by american law? I am a little confused on how the constitution needs to be changed.
My attempt was not to anger anyone. My attempt was to just get any kind of response out of anyone.Since personal attacks and dimwitted closed minded people wrote OP peices attacking individuals on here it has been very diffacult at best to start a conversation.
Since you declare that we have all been left in the dark, (BTW I agree)these recent efforts,Ft. Hood, (terror attrack no doubt, Xmas day attack on an air liner, terror attempt, and now NYC. I think you are correct on the issue of imformation.These are deliberately set by an admin. lost in the dark. They are trying to show us they are in control, when indeed they are not.
2 The Constitution is a living document I agree, if it werent slavery would still be intact. Our world changed on 9-11 when it should have changed long before that date. Terrorist and Jihadist know now they are protected by the constitution giving them free raigne to do as they choose, are they more limited since 9-11 hell yes, by taking the fight to them we have put quite a bite out of their abilities to operate world wide. But are you saying it is not up to our government to protect our nations savriegnty? is that it? including our borders and now the world is regulated by american law? I am a little confused on how the constitution needs to be changed.
FREERIDESTL wrote:
2 The Constitution is a living document I agree, if it werent slavery would still be intact. Our world changed on 9-11 when it should have changed long before that date. Terrorist and Jihadist know now they are protected by the constitution giving them free raigne to do as they choose, are they more limited since 9-11 hell yes, by taking the fight to them we have put quite a bite out of their abilities to operate world wide. But are you saying it is not up to our government to protect our nations savriegnty? is that it? including our borders and now the world is regulated by american law? I am a little confused on how the constitution needs to be changed.
So you would set aside the Rights guaranteed by the Constitution to protect it? A true Republican....just like Abraham Lincoln. And our security, as a nation that is governed by the consent of the people, it is up to us to ensure the security of ourselves and our nation. But wait, if we take away the Right to Bear Arms from the people, then they can't hurt anyone...and we can do anything we want because we have the weapons, and they don't, and they can't even defend our interests from malicious persons. It is simple, we the people protect what is ours, anyone who is foolish enough to fuck with us gets buried, or turned to glass. No one wants to fuck with the guy that will fuck you up worse when they know he has the will to do so. Self preservation, even for jehadists, hell if they all acted that way who would spread the glorious word of Allah? Let us decide whether we wish to carry arms and accept the responsibility for doing so, or whether we wish to abdicate that responsibility to others, on an INDIVIDUAL basis. If you choose to abdicate your responsibility for your own security to others then you get what you got.
FREERIDESTL wrote:
The Constitution is a living document I agree, if it werent slavery would still be intact. Our world changed on 9-11 when it should have changed long before that date. Terrorist and Jihadist know now they are protected by the constitution giving them free raigne to do as they choose, are they more limited since 9-11 hell yes, by taking the fight to them we have put quite a bite out of their abilities to operate world wide. But are you saying it is not up to our government to protect our nations savriegnty? is that it? including our borders and now the world is regulated by american law? I am a little confused on how the constitution needs to be changed.
The only way the constitution should be living is if it is increasing the rights of the individual, not restricting them. Slavery was a restriction on individual liberty so removing that restriction was a good thing. .
Would removing the restrictions on smoking be a good thing, Mr. Cliff? Just wondering......
Not that I disagree with the general meaning of your statement. But I will and you know it.
I don't feel less safe now than I ever did but I do feel less free as many of my rights as a citizen have been trampled, IMHO; for example my right to privacy. The right to know that unless someone can prove to a judge that I did something wrong I can feel certain that my phone conversations won't be overheard, that the books I take from the library won't be investigated, that if I get arrested I will be mirandized, the right to get legal council if I'm incarcerated (a right not afforded many innocent people in Gauntanamo, btw), etc.
I agree with Thomas Jefferson as posted by Bent: ""The man who would choose security over freedom deserves neither."
M
Not that I disagree with the general meaning of your statement. But I will and you know it.
I don't feel less safe now than I ever did but I do feel less free as many of my rights as a citizen have been trampled, IMHO; for example my right to privacy. The right to know that unless someone can prove to a judge that I did something wrong I can feel certain that my phone conversations won't be overheard, that the books I take from the library won't be investigated, that if I get arrested I will be mirandized, the right to get legal council if I'm incarcerated (a right not afforded many innocent people in Gauntanamo, btw), etc.
I agree with Thomas Jefferson as posted by Bent: ""The man who would choose security over freedom deserves neither."
M
PLEASERMENU wrote:
Would removing the restrictions on smoking be a good thing, Mr. Cliff? Just wondering...... Not that I disagree with the general meaning of your statement. But I will and you know it.
Hi M,
Welcome! Now we can get the party started on the forums.
I am less upset about local restrictions on smoking but a constitutional amendment would bother me even though I have never smoked a TOBACCO cig in my life. I don't like smoking but I also think that businesses should have the option. If they want to be like the Islands chain and have all non-smoking restaurants then that can be and was a big competitive advantage. If they want to be Smokey eats they should be allowed to also, I just would not work or eat their. I am not a big one size fits all guy.
Privacy is something that is pretty much on its way out and that does scare me. But as I like to say, the more we ask the collective to share in our financial lives, the more they will want to control our private lives. Add in the fear of terrorism and we are in for it.
I love that quote but it is from Ben Franklin.
Mr. C
LOL, always trying to set me straight.....I love it!! BUT, I checked 3 different quote sites and they all say it's TJ that said it.
I don't want to see an amendment but I know restaurants get a great deal more of my business now that everyone is non smoking. I guess I can see your point about each establishment choosing smoking or non smoking but when there is a mixed group there might be an issue.
As I've said before, but never here, when are we going to take over the world and run it right?
Hmmmmm, people may regret our party especially since I'm not nearly as articulate or politically savvy as you. But I'll give it a shot and sight sources when I can.
There's nothing like a good political 'discussion' to rev up your sex drive! Let the games begin.
xo
I don't want to see an amendment but I know restaurants get a great deal more of my business now that everyone is non smoking. I guess I can see your point about each establishment choosing smoking or non smoking but when there is a mixed group there might be an issue.
As I've said before, but never here, when are we going to take over the world and run it right?
Hmmmmm, people may regret our party especially since I'm not nearly as articulate or politically savvy as you. But I'll give it a shot and sight sources when I can.
There's nothing like a good political 'discussion' to rev up your sex drive! Let the games begin.
xo
"So you would set aside the Rights guaranteed by the Constitution to protect it?"
No. I would set aside those rights for non-US citizens. We earn those rights by obaying the rule of law and as an American I have sworn an allegiance to this republic. Jehadists and our enemies have sworn an allegiance to our destruction.
"It is simple, we the people protect what is ours, anyone who is foolish enough to fuck with us gets buried, or turned to glass."
Really? When and where has this occured? Recently I mean really is it just sabor rattling or is this what we represent? If infact we destroy any one who attacks us why are we still knee deep in it?
"The man who would choose security over freedom deserves neither."
Yet we have, we no longer travel between states with out impunity, our phones are no longer private, What we write in here in no longer private. What changed? and has it made us safer?
Has issueing terrorist our rights to remain silent made us safer, Has trying them in civil court made us safer, And has the lack attention on the home front made us safer?
Hameland Security "Lets hope all terrorist and like the time square bomber" They are not.
No. I would set aside those rights for non-US citizens. We earn those rights by obaying the rule of law and as an American I have sworn an allegiance to this republic. Jehadists and our enemies have sworn an allegiance to our destruction.
"It is simple, we the people protect what is ours, anyone who is foolish enough to fuck with us gets buried, or turned to glass."
Really? When and where has this occured? Recently I mean really is it just sabor rattling or is this what we represent? If infact we destroy any one who attacks us why are we still knee deep in it?
"The man who would choose security over freedom deserves neither."
Yet we have, we no longer travel between states with out impunity, our phones are no longer private, What we write in here in no longer private. What changed? and has it made us safer?
Has issueing terrorist our rights to remain silent made us safer, Has trying them in civil court made us safer, And has the lack attention on the home front made us safer?
Hameland Security "Lets hope all terrorist and like the time square bomber" They are not.
PLEASERMENU wrote:
LOL, always trying to set me straight.....I love it!! BUT, I checked 3 different quote sites and they all say it's TJ that said it. I don't want to see an amendment but I know restaurants get a great deal more of my business now that everyone is non smoking. I guess I can see your point about each establishment choosing smoking or non smoking but when there is a mixed group there might be an issue. As I've said before, but never here, when are we going to take over the world and run it right? Hmmmmm, people may regret our party especially since I'm not nearly as articulate or politically savvy as you. But I'll give it a shot and sight sources when I can. There's nothing like a good political 'discussion' to rev up your sex drive! Let the games begin. xo
I love non-smoking restaurants also, that is why Islands always got my biz. I wonder if their business dropped in CA after the smoking ban. I think I will start a thread about the Rand Paul controversy, it is related in a way. That should be fun! :-)
We can take over after the revolution! You are politically savvy and the best part is your heart is in the right place, I have found that as long as that is the case the rest of the stuff can follow.
I have always seen that quote sourced as Franklin, he looks to be the first to put it in print. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Those_who_would_give_up_Essential_Liberty
You would have a blast at political conventions if you get sexed up by debate! I almost walked into an orgy at an LP convention years ago but this was pre-lifestyle so I didn't go. Stupid me.
Mr. C
Mr. C,
We have to lead the revolution, otherwise how can we be top dogs. Some other nut jobs will take over and we'll be whining about how bad things are again, just with new players!!! Not that many people can get it right because, as you said, not that many people have their hearts in the right place. Damn idealists.
Ok, you might be right about BF and TJ. Odd that so many would get it wrong?
Haha, stupid you is right! What were YOU thinking?? Walking away from an ongoing orgy, lol and shaking my head in bewilderment!
FREERIDESTL, no one should have to forgo their rights. Our judicial system is one of the best in the world. How can it be advantageous to not afford everybody the right to be heard in a court of law with legal representation at least once. Even if it's a military case people still have a right to council. Otherwise we're as bad as any dictatorship that exists. If you want respect then you have to give respect.....even to those you THINK are guilty of something. IMHO.
We have to lead the revolution, otherwise how can we be top dogs. Some other nut jobs will take over and we'll be whining about how bad things are again, just with new players!!! Not that many people can get it right because, as you said, not that many people have their hearts in the right place. Damn idealists.
Ok, you might be right about BF and TJ. Odd that so many would get it wrong?
Haha, stupid you is right! What were YOU thinking?? Walking away from an ongoing orgy, lol and shaking my head in bewilderment!
FREERIDESTL, no one should have to forgo their rights. Our judicial system is one of the best in the world. How can it be advantageous to not afford everybody the right to be heard in a court of law with legal representation at least once. Even if it's a military case people still have a right to council. Otherwise we're as bad as any dictatorship that exists. If you want respect then you have to give respect.....even to those you THINK are guilty of something. IMHO.
PLEASERMENU wrote:
Mr. C, We have to lead the revolution, otherwise how can we be top dogs. Some other nut jobs will take over and we'll be whining about how bad things are again, just with new players!!! Not that many people can get it right because, as you said, not that many people have their hearts in the right place. Damn idealists. Ok, you might be right about BF and TJ. Odd that so many would get it wrong? Haha, stupid you is right! What were YOU thinking?? Walking away from an ongoing orgy, lol and shaking my head in bewilderment! FREERIDESTL, no one should have to forgo their rights. Our judicial system is one of the best in the world. How can it be advantageous to not afford everybody the right to be heard in a court of law with legal representation at least once. Even if it's a military case people still have a right to council. Otherwise we're as bad as any dictatorship that exists. If you want respect then you have to give respect.....even to those you THINK are guilty of something. IMHO.
I know, it should be us. I have always been good as more of a puppet master, that is what my friends called me in my old political days. I was good at giving the front people great things to say.
There are tons of quotes misattributed, I don't know hoe that happens. I imagine in those days they often quoted each other, it must have been an amazing time to live.
"FREERIDESTL, no one should have to forgo their rights. Our judicial system is one of the best in the world. How can it be advantageous to not afford everybody the right to be heard in a court of law with legal representation at least once. Even if it's a military case people still have a right to council. Otherwise we're as bad as any dictatorship that exists. If you want respect then you have to give respect.....even to those you THINK are guilty of something. IMHO."
I am glad that is your opinion and not the true law of this land. We are not the world government we are the United states of America. Our laws do not apply to them as their laws dont apply to us. Ask those Americans in Iran...LOL
And speaking of trials? What is taking so long? If you want to give them our rights why has there been no trials as of yet? The right to a speedy trial of your peers has been trampled, And peers? where in the fuck are they going to find peers for these guys?(unbiased) Not being an ass but just asking. You want them to have our rights but why is it our government cant find any rights to give them? Putting them on trial actually violates international law, so my question is which laws takes presidence? Which laws and rights should they have since they were not captured on American soil...International law or US law?
I am glad that is your opinion and not the true law of this land. We are not the world government we are the United states of America. Our laws do not apply to them as their laws dont apply to us. Ask those Americans in Iran...LOL
And speaking of trials? What is taking so long? If you want to give them our rights why has there been no trials as of yet? The right to a speedy trial of your peers has been trampled, And peers? where in the fuck are they going to find peers for these guys?(unbiased) Not being an ass but just asking. You want them to have our rights but why is it our government cant find any rights to give them? Putting them on trial actually violates international law, so my question is which laws takes presidence? Which laws and rights should they have since they were not captured on American soil...International law or US law?
At a minimum can we follow the Geneva Convention please?
How about we don't torture and humiliate people, incarcerate people based on the word of a disgruntled neighbors or others that will sell you out for money, take innocent people off of American soil and ship them to foreign countries where they will knowingly be tortured based on hunches? Does that seem too much to ask to start?
How about we don't torture and humiliate people, incarcerate people based on the word of a disgruntled neighbors or others that will sell you out for money, take innocent people off of American soil and ship them to foreign countries where they will knowingly be tortured based on hunches? Does that seem too much to ask to start?
At a minimum can we follow the Geneva Convention please?
Sure we can, but you would not like the outcome. These men and GITMO would not exist if we did. They have no flag, no country, no government and they wear no indentifiable uniform, and according to the conventions they should be shot by firing squad, Being suspected terrorist or spy requires NO trial just execution.I agree there should be NO GITMO and no prisoners, just bodies in an unmarked grave.
If we did this thing would be over. Taking their stage away tends to do take away their will to fight.
Sure we can, but you would not like the outcome. These men and GITMO would not exist if we did. They have no flag, no country, no government and they wear no indentifiable uniform, and according to the conventions they should be shot by firing squad, Being suspected terrorist or spy requires NO trial just execution.I agree there should be NO GITMO and no prisoners, just bodies in an unmarked grave.
If we did this thing would be over. Taking their stage away tends to do take away their will to fight.
Why are we not secure? Why do people fly planes into our buildings and try to blow us up? They tell us that we won't leave them alone or treat then fairly, and they seek justice. Most of the people of Afganistan (Pashtunistan would be a better term, but were American/European and draw our borders) are fighting out of Nationalism. They have been fighting occupiers for 30+ years and will continue to fight anyone who tries to occupy.
I think if we started treating everyone with a true sense of justice we wouldn't have enemies. We would have competitors and rivals, but i don't think enemies. More like a sports rivalry than a hatred.
What would most of us do if we had another country doing whatever they wanted in our land?
Blowback is why we have lost our security.
I think if we started treating everyone with a true sense of justice we wouldn't have enemies. We would have competitors and rivals, but i don't think enemies. More like a sports rivalry than a hatred.
What would most of us do if we had another country doing whatever they wanted in our land?
Blowback is why we have lost our security.
There is that, LOGANLOVERS.
What would most of us do if we had another country doing whatever they wanted in our land?
We already do.
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We already do.
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