After spending a weekend deluged with emails from people making fun of my ex's and his current girlfriend's profile for her weight and calling her juvenile names, I was totally perplexed. I realize that there has to be a level of physical attraction but to actually go so far as to attack someone to HOW they look doesn't make sense to me. And being put in the position of DEFENDING the woman who played a huge part in almost ruining my life is nauseating. However, as much as I detest her for what she had done, I detest fatphobes even more. Hits to close to home. I'm a size 12/14 depending on what day it is. Still not 'skinny' by any means, but I used to weigh almost 300 lbs til I had weight loss surgery almost 2 years ago and dropped over a 100 lbs. And trust me, Im 41, have 4 kids, dropped a lot of weight FAST so no, I'm not a 10. Gravity as this stage of my life has NOT been kind. LOL
I understand if obesity is a turn off. Im not turned on by it either. We all have our own preferences and what floats our boats, but I would never go so far as to call someone online or IRL a "fat cow", a "chunky monkey", a "swollen boil on legs", "pig face" or anything else that I got the pleasure of reading.
I know most of us are in this lifestyle discretely as not to incur the judgments of family, churches, professional contacts, or local community peers. So why is ok to judge WITHIN our lifestyle community?
Just food for thought.
I understand if obesity is a turn off. Im not turned on by it either. We all have our own preferences and what floats our boats, but I would never go so far as to call someone online or IRL a "fat cow", a "chunky monkey", a "swollen boil on legs", "pig face" or anything else that I got the pleasure of reading.
I know most of us are in this lifestyle discretely as not to incur the judgments of family, churches, professional contacts, or local community peers. So why is ok to judge WITHIN our lifestyle community?
Just food for thought.
WE understand the mean things people can say to and about others. The husband on this end has been on the recieving end of a lot of abuse, and the wife has as well... but hers has almost always been racial in nature...
T4REAL69 wrote:
As to the others....fuck'em!
Agreed
It is bad enough that many people in the lifestyle behave as if they are still in high school. Who knew there would be a large contingent trapped in elementary school?
My beautiful size 16 wife is often disappointed that people aren't as interested in sex as she is.
My beautiful size 16 wife is often disappointed that people aren't as interested in sex as she is.
ABCMAN wrote:
Most fat people know they are, and they really don't need the skinny guy eating his burger and fry's telling them how to lose weight, or how ugly they are.
Lol...reminds me of that silly saying, "I may be fat...and you may be ugly...but at least I can diet", (That is a joke people, I'm not calling anyone fat OR ugly, so please...no hate e-mails about my attempt at levity).
Yes, unfortunately some swingers are as judgemental or even worse than our vanilla counterparts. After taking a break for some time, Jen and I decided to get back in the swing of things. We have recently moved from California to Ohio due to me (Mike) being in the military. Strangely enough, we have found more judgemental people out here than were in CA. At a party that we were at, one of the guests actually came up to Jen and said some mean things about her because of her weight. We ended up leaving early anyway, due to bad weather and a drive home. This discussion came up in another forum of a website that we also belong to as well. Just because we're swingers doesn't mean you have to play with somebody you don't find attractive, but you can at least be nice to that person.
I just want to say congrats to each and every one of you who have lost weight and wish you well in your continued attempts...it is not an easy thing...some of you have known me for a long time and watched me go from 240lbs, size 20 to my current 160 size 10/11...but, as pointed out, with that weight loss comes the horrible gravity effect...My boobs aren't where a 21 yr olds are and I have that tummy skin left that nothing but surgery will fix...but let me tell you...all of this I did...I DID IT FOR ME!!! That's why it worked because I wasn't trying to please anyone, just needed to do it for me...
Now, we surround ourselves with a huge variety of different "cliques" in the lifestyle and every single one of them accept us for who we are...whether we play or not, sometimes it's just the atmosphere, the sexual tension in the air that is just as satisfying at times as play...if other people don't like the fact that I have a saggy tummy or that my hubby is naturally very tall and slim...then I agree with the rest of ya....Fuck 'em...don't need that kind of judgmental people in my life anyway...that's not healthy and wont help me loose my last 10+ pounds...so just find who you fit well with and don't give a second thought to the judgmental assholes out there
kisses...Naugh-Ty
Now, we surround ourselves with a huge variety of different "cliques" in the lifestyle and every single one of them accept us for who we are...whether we play or not, sometimes it's just the atmosphere, the sexual tension in the air that is just as satisfying at times as play...if other people don't like the fact that I have a saggy tummy or that my hubby is naturally very tall and slim...then I agree with the rest of ya....Fuck 'em...don't need that kind of judgmental people in my life anyway...that's not healthy and wont help me loose my last 10+ pounds...so just find who you fit well with and don't give a second thought to the judgmental assholes out there
kisses...Naugh-TyABC...very true!! Maybe try an email giving specific examples and say "hey we like you as a person but would appriciate if you would back off a little on the wife" type thing...honesty seems to usually work...but then again we found out the hard way that it can also be turned around and bite ya in the arse...but wouldn't trade how we've handled some situations...it usually works out for the best...Kisses...Naugh-Ty
Well, speaking for our experiences, it has been much the same. We have always tried to keep our issues with others limited to the "whole" experience and the whole couple or person, but sometimes that isn't always possible and in those cases, it should be an upfront and honest "answer" not hiding behind some poor excuse.
However to avoid the rest of the "ditto" responses I will just say a few things:
1- ABCMAN, keep your head up. I believe your 100% right that it needs to be for YOU and nobody else, but it is also in how you handle your interactions that makes the difference.
2- Naughty...what can I say other than I would definitely NOT kick you out of bed for eating crackers...20% of that is because yes I think your HOT...but you two also just seem to be fun loving and playful which is much more than just the hotness...
3-Smilemore...uhhh, this is the first think I have seen from you so can't comment on how I feel on your attitude and personality, but I'm still not gonna kick your sexy self out of the bedroom
4- Highdesertcpl, you are very right, at a minimum everyone deserves at least a polite, no thanks, or some kind of response.
Most importantly though, everyone can learn to laugh a little. If someone is being an ass, laugh at their loss. If not, laugh at the others losing out on the fun your having because they were "too good for you".
However to avoid the rest of the "ditto" responses I will just say a few things:
1- ABCMAN, keep your head up. I believe your 100% right that it needs to be for YOU and nobody else, but it is also in how you handle your interactions that makes the difference.
2- Naughty...what can I say other than I would definitely NOT kick you out of bed for eating crackers...20% of that is because yes I think your HOT...but you two also just seem to be fun loving and playful which is much more than just the hotness...
3-Smilemore...uhhh, this is the first think I have seen from you so can't comment on how I feel on your attitude and personality, but I'm still not gonna kick your sexy self out of the bedroom
4- Highdesertcpl, you are very right, at a minimum everyone deserves at least a polite, no thanks, or some kind of response.
Most importantly though, everyone can learn to laugh a little. If someone is being an ass, laugh at their loss. If not, laugh at the others losing out on the fun your having because they were "too good for you".
It strikes me that, in general, people fall into one of two groups:
A. Those interested in the total social experience the lifestyle offers (multi-faceted).
B. Those interested primarily in sex (very goal-specific).
The number of people in group B is considerable. 'B' folks are much more likely to hold appearance and physical desirability as the only criteria for evaluating playmates. 'A' folks are more interested in the total package.
I don't think it's necessarily right to fault those in group B for their limited interest in people beyond their sexual skills and desirability. How they conduct themselves is another story, however.
Immaturity has been mentioned. Selfishness and poor social skills also surely come into play. Society in general continues to become more and more hooked on instant gratification, leaving little room for concern for others.
This issue is reflective of society in general. Those in the lifestyle are, in fact, just a microcosm of the bigger picture, as previously pointed out. Does anyone really think swingers are any different? If anything, they are a subgroup even more into instant gratification and seeking only specifically what they want.
A. Those interested in the total social experience the lifestyle offers (multi-faceted).
B. Those interested primarily in sex (very goal-specific).
The number of people in group B is considerable. 'B' folks are much more likely to hold appearance and physical desirability as the only criteria for evaluating playmates. 'A' folks are more interested in the total package.
I don't think it's necessarily right to fault those in group B for their limited interest in people beyond their sexual skills and desirability. How they conduct themselves is another story, however.
Immaturity has been mentioned. Selfishness and poor social skills also surely come into play. Society in general continues to become more and more hooked on instant gratification, leaving little room for concern for others.
This issue is reflective of society in general. Those in the lifestyle are, in fact, just a microcosm of the bigger picture, as previously pointed out. Does anyone really think swingers are any different? If anything, they are a subgroup even more into instant gratification and seeking only specifically what they want.
I just started dating a lady in the lifestyle and she is not the barbie doll figure. But she makes me so happy it doesn't matter. I have more fun with her than anyone I have been with before. Size and weight only matter if you are closed minded. I would expect this community to be more open to people of all shapes and sizes, isn't that we are all here for is a place where normal stigma's don't apply.
Just dont forget that the people who do those things are weak and insecure, and usually about more serious (most likely mental) things than being over weight. We feel bad for them; that they have to look at that tiny penis every day!
Just look on the bright side - at least you know exactly who to stay away from and not waste any time on.
My favorite part of this post is a comment from another couple we met who did nothing but talk about other peoples "imperfections", and behaved in person exactly the way they wrote here about others (almost every word - Hilarious)! Matter of fact, the very reason we are not meeting them again is because we didn't like how judgmental they were, and the even funnier part is they probably think its because we didn't like the weight, which wasn't even on the list - lol. As a matter of another fact, their post here actually degrades and paints people into another area of "undesirability" - written words are cheap, actions in real time are worth gold!!! (and it wasn't you ABCMAN, you guys are great and very correct about how one comes across to others through personality) :-)
Just look on the bright side - at least you know exactly who to stay away from and not waste any time on.
My favorite part of this post is a comment from another couple we met who did nothing but talk about other peoples "imperfections", and behaved in person exactly the way they wrote here about others (almost every word - Hilarious)! Matter of fact, the very reason we are not meeting them again is because we didn't like how judgmental they were, and the even funnier part is they probably think its because we didn't like the weight, which wasn't even on the list - lol. As a matter of another fact, their post here actually degrades and paints people into another area of "undesirability" - written words are cheap, actions in real time are worth gold!!! (and it wasn't you ABCMAN, you guys are great and very correct about how one comes across to others through personality) :-)
there is no reason anyone with todays technology should be fat, were fat because they want us to be fat, they put crap in our food to purposly to make us fat, beside that fact we could all have nice bodies through hormanal manipulation, i personally went to over 15 differnt doctors looking for someone to check my hormones, i played it cool at first just wanting bloodwork done, then i would politly ask can you please check these hormones to, those doctors would look at me like i was nuts, shake their heads and say what in the world would you want all that checked for, i became so frustrated that i just stared blurting out BECAUSE I WANT TO MANIPULATE MY HORMONE PROFILE TO MATCH THAT OF AN ELITE ATHLETE. i finally found someone to help me,
this is what i found
my thyroid was low not low enough to get persciption though
my testosterone was low not low enough to get persciption though
my estrogen was hi but they dont do anything about that anyway.
so basically iam screwed cause i have bad genetics and there isnt a doctor in the country that would help me with something like this.
this is what i found
my thyroid was low not low enough to get persciption though
my testosterone was low not low enough to get persciption though
my estrogen was hi but they dont do anything about that anyway.
so basically iam screwed cause i have bad genetics and there isnt a doctor in the country that would help me with something like this.
the above post is from pitmommys husband,
Search HCG diet on the Web. Helped us a lot!!!
Wow, very well put by naughtykendra! +2
abc i think you may be confusing estrogen with dihydrotestosterone
a males nateral testosterone converts to both estrogen and dihydrotestosterone, typically one can expect about 10% to convert to dihydrotestosterone, and 25% to convert to estrogen, genetics play a key roll in this so figures vary
dihydrotestosterone causes prostate enlargment and male pattern baldness
estrogen causes edema and gynocomastia and mood swings
a males nateral testosterone converts to both estrogen and dihydrotestosterone, typically one can expect about 10% to convert to dihydrotestosterone, and 25% to convert to estrogen, genetics play a key roll in this so figures vary
dihydrotestosterone causes prostate enlargment and male pattern baldness
estrogen causes edema and gynocomastia and mood swings
back to the original question, this whole swinging thing and this sight is in general just a big set up to make people feel rejected, my wife doesnt even get on here because she cant deal with rejection. the point iam trying to make is that it doesnt matter who you are or what you look like, in the swinging lifestyle rejection is everywhere, you just have to ignore it and dont let it get you down.
ABC...thanks as far as the testosterone, I am a nurse and didn't even know this but the men you see that have the big belly...that is usually caused by low testosterone...just an fyi Kisses...Naugh-Ty
as far as the testosterone, I am a nurse and didn't even know this but the men you see that have the big belly...that is usually caused by low testosterone...just an fyi Kisses...Naugh-Tyhigh destert, i cant figure out if your trying to start a debate but iam not willing to argue theres no point to it, i really want nothing more than for people to be happy, so many people now days are unhappy because of the way their bodies look and its really sad because its generally not their fault. how would like to be a fat little boy with titties because everything you ate had corn syrup in it and your food was geneticlly altered to mimic estrogen,
We totally agree with this..there is no point in making someone feel uncomfortable in an environment that is supposed to be "open-minded".
I (Denise) the female was over 260 pounds and I spent the whole year of 2004 losing weight. I didn't have surgery, I just watched what I ate & counted calories. I replaced sugar with Splenda & was very determined to lose the weight. It was a long hard road but I did it. I lost about 140 pounds (some of which I put back on ) but now am a size 6 and I'm very pleased with myself & very proud of myself for losing the weight & keeping it off. It's not a diet, it's a Lifestyle change just like swinging is from being a vanilla couple. We don't judge people by their size, we look at personality more than anything there are a lot of "hard Bodied" people that have the personality of Satan & that's not attractive at all. Personality goes a long way. That don't mean we want to have sex with everyone either lets face it not everyone is attracted to everyone & there has to be some kind of attraction to have fun. We look for couples that we get along with & have things in common with & that everyone is nice & has a good personality. If someone don't want to get with us for whatever reason we look at it like it's their loss. I will say this if People that are overweight decide to lose it it's a Long Hard Road but well worth it... Just stick to the plan. Yes gravity does take it's toll, but you'll still feel better & be healthier. As far as the name calling goes i'll put it like this....Like my Mother-in-law always says if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything & keep your opinion to yourself.
We made a post on a related subject a long time ago about the Mrs. gaining a lot of weight when she went on medicine that was needed to save her life. She is now well, and the weight is coming off. But one response we got was that I should have let her die instead of getting fat! Guess you just can`t teach class.
Not that we hold this site responsible but it happened on this site. No sense in getting worked up over it, we simply moved on and din`t give them what they wanted, a response. They obviously have issues and contacting them would have only been a waste of our time on someone that is not only broken as a person, but someone that made our "not in a million years" would we do you list.
Define fat.....hmmm, we think it is a state of mind. My very petite sister was anorexic (sp check) and felt she was always fat. If you think you are fat, and let it get you down, the nmaybe that is the definition of fat. Honestly, I don`t know but that is what I come up with off the top of my head.
Define fat.....hmmm, we think it is a state of mind. My very petite sister was anorexic (sp check) and felt she was always fat. If you think you are fat, and let it get you down, the nmaybe that is the definition of fat. Honestly, I don`t know but that is what I come up with off the top of my head.
Thank you to everyone who responded to this thread. It was nice to see so many open minded and understanding people. Trust me, it was very unpleasant to say the least. First of all, this is someone I should NOT have to defend in anyway - it literally made me sick and emotional due to our past/current relationship with me and my ex (definitely hot and heavy fodder for another thread)but I could not let it go. My ex has himself made inappropriate comments about her weight without thinking and it still pisses me the fuck off. Say anything else you want but don't dis the fat girl. Please.
xox
Tammy
xox
Tammy
ThoughtGarden... I think I love you.. thanks for always being.... real.. and beautiful..
thanks for always being.... real.. and beautiful..NPNUDISTCPLE wrote:
We made a post on a related subject a long time ago about the Mrs. gaining a lot of weight when she went on medicine that was needed to save her life. She is now well, and the weight is coming off. But one response we got was that I should have let her die instead of getting fat! Guess you just can`t teach class.
Sorry guys...that has got to be the worst thing I have ever heard said...you guys are much better people than I (and the hubby) cuz at that point either one of us (or likely both) would have gone off and told them to go the fuck to hell...with that said, glad the mrs. health has improved and she is well...
As far as the rest...fat is a perception of ones self...at my heaviest I did not act or feel like a "fat girl" it wasn't till I started loosing and seeing pics of myself from before that I realized how heavy I really was...but I never really felt that way...I always felt sexy and confident and still do (even with gravity taking it's toll)...but it's mostly how you put yourself forward...and you have to look at more than just the jean size...cuz we have met a few "ken and barbies" that we wouldn't hang out with if our lives depended on it...kisses...Naugh-Ty
"Are we really as judgemental as vanilla people?"
WOW - tough and interesting question.
I'm sitting here trying to remember a time when anyone "vanilla" has told me I'm not welcome or invited because I'm single.
I'll get back to you if I think of one.
WOW - tough and interesting question.
I'm sitting here trying to remember a time when anyone "vanilla" has told me I'm not welcome or invited because I'm single.
I'll get back to you if I think of one.
Carrierman, we have been shunned by vanillas because we do not have kids like they do. It has been very hard for us to meet people since moving to Florida. So we sat there one day wondering what couples like us, but without kids did for fun and to meet others. That was the catylist in getting us involved in the lifestyle. A huge reason why almost all of our friends are also in the lifestyle. Some of our friends we play with and some we understand there is not the physical attraction, but we still have the lifestyle in common and the fact we are all good people.
Just had this thought while writing. Because lifestylers are sharing more intimate things then vanillas, does that give them the "right" to be more judgemental?
Just had this thought while writing. Because lifestylers are sharing more intimate things then vanillas, does that give them the "right" to be more judgemental?
i would define fat as someone who is over 30% bodyfat
i read a survey in muscular development asking men what bodytype they were attrracted to it went like this
79% were attracted to athletic built women
3% were attracted to obese women
3% were attracted to anorexic women
3% were attracted to bodybuilder women
12% didnt care
i read a survey in muscular development asking men what bodytype they were attrracted to it went like this
79% were attracted to athletic built women
3% were attracted to obese women
3% were attracted to anorexic women
3% were attracted to bodybuilder women
12% didnt care
It may simply be that these people are sticking up for you by doing what they know, attacking the source of your anger and frustration.
NPNUDISTCPLE, the point I was trying to make (in my usual snide humorus way) is that, as much as those of us in the Lifestyle may CLAIM to not be judgemental, we are ALL human beings.
And as such, we are all:
Judgemental
Biased
Prejudiced
Snobbish
Aloof
The degree of each varies from individual to individual, but we ALL suffer from them to a certain degree.
As the old say went back in the Seventies: "There's a little bit of Archie Bunker in all of us".
What seperates us is whether or not we're willing to admit it to others - much less ourselves.
And as such, we are all:
Judgemental
Biased
Prejudiced
Snobbish
Aloof
The degree of each varies from individual to individual, but we ALL suffer from them to a certain degree.
As the old say went back in the Seventies: "There's a little bit of Archie Bunker in all of us".
What seperates us is whether or not we're willing to admit it to others - much less ourselves.
Are some people perhaps confusing "judgemental" with "selective"?
Very good point Jared....
THOUGHTGARDEN wrote:
Are some people perhaps confusing "judgemental" with "selective"?
Right - some people seem to think that because we are swingers we have sex with anyone and therefore they view a rejection as a personal snub. I think they forget that "just not that into you" applies as much in swinging as vanilla relationships.
Not attacking anyones input here. Don`t you have to judge in order to select who you are going to play with. We feel like judgemental and selective are the same or at least very similar. We don`t mind saying it as it is. We are as judgemental as anyone, but here is how we do it. First there has to be some sort of attraction, enough to warrant a meeting to see if we like you as people. While that is the normal, we have read postings that we really liked and then looked at the profiles.
Hope they don`t mind us doing this. We read Mike and Jenns post on the other site and then thought, wow, they really seem like a discreet and classy couple. After seeing their posts on other topics we realized we have a lot in common. We then looked at their profile and said, if given the chance, we would love to meet them and see what comes from it. So our attraction to them came from their words first.
Everyone swings differently and there is no right way! What works best for us is the right way to us. We only play with people we consider friends so we do share a more intimate relationship with those people. In any event, being rude or nasty just because you are not interested in someone is not acceptable.
Hope they don`t mind us doing this. We read Mike and Jenns post on the other site and then thought, wow, they really seem like a discreet and classy couple. After seeing their posts on other topics we realized we have a lot in common. We then looked at their profile and said, if given the chance, we would love to meet them and see what comes from it. So our attraction to them came from their words first.
Everyone swings differently and there is no right way! What works best for us is the right way to us. We only play with people we consider friends so we do share a more intimate relationship with those people. In any event, being rude or nasty just because you are not interested in someone is not acceptable.
But, on a positive note, it's probably better to know who you can and can't trust.
How true! The results are usually hard to swallow but we also would rather know.
How true! The results are usually hard to swallow but we also would rather know.
We believe judgmental & selective are very similar but it's the saying bad things about people that should be kept to ones self... There is no reason to call someone fat or anything else. Just because you may not be into it doesn't mean someone else isn't into it..... We were talking last night at a Club we went to about this it's like the Jerry Springer show if ever watched it & thought Damn that's weird & has to be fake... well it may be but I Guarantee that some where in the world someone has the same or similar story... It takes all kinds of people to make the world go around & to each their own just because you may not be into it someone else is... & there is no need to hurt someone's feelings by calling them names... A simple thanks but we're not interested will work. Just our opinion
D & D
D & D
Wow, a skiing analogy. Who'd have thought?
Mav
Mav
LMAO...maybe if I got some sleep we all would seem more "normal"?...nahhhh...lol...kisses...Naugh-Ty
damn I wish I had the time to go and read this from the beginning... these last two pages are messed up!
i obviously missed the 70s. other than the drug thing, what does "stuck in the 70s about it" refer too? or IS that the drug thing?
Ok been holding off posting on this subject.But yes we are just as judgemental as vanilla's its human nature. But the the original posting is someone personally attacking someone for thier weight look ect calling them names. While we can be selective in this life style we dont have to attack people personally. To be honest if we were at a party and someone called my wife a fat pig they would be picking themselves off the floor. If your being selective or not attracted to some thats cool but why the HELL attack them for wanting to have fun with you.
Yes, many in the lifestyle are as judgmental as those outside. I am 15 pounds overweight but to some I am as broad as a battleship. What's more, after 34 years of marriage, 24 of which were in the lifestyle, my wife died. All of a sudden I was persona non grata at the club we attended because single males were not allowed. I had not changed, only my marital status. I have been pilloried and shunned because of being lumped with the FEW young single guys who don't have a clue. Now I have 3 strikes: I'm old, I'm slightly overweight, and single. I've learned these last 9 years that swingers can be just as cruel, predjudiced and uncaring as other people. What keeps me going is all those swingers who truely accept me as I am.:z
Yes, many in the lifestyle are as judgmental as those outside. I am 15 pounds overweight but to some I am as broad ahat comess a battleship. What's more, after 34 years of marriage, 24 of which were in the lifestyle, my wife died. All of a sudden I was persona non grata at the club we attended because single males were not allowed. I had not changed, only my marital status. I have been pilloried and shunned because of being lumped with the FEW young single guys who don't have a clue. Now I have 3 strikes: I'm old, I'm slightly overweight, and single. I've learned these last 9 years that swingers are just as cruel, predjudiced and uncaring as other people. What keeps me going is all those swingers who truely accept me as I am.:z
Swingers are very judgemental, maybe more so than the general population. It's not just over weight people that are judged by people in the lifestyle. Single men are discriminated against daily...just because they are male. We seem to be good at grouping like people together be it sex, weight, race. People in the lifestyle sure don't hold back when it comes to discrimination.
In answer to the OP, YES. Swingers are just as judgemental if not more so than the vanilla people that we live with. The Lifestyle is just a smaller version of the regular world. And because there are less people in it, it may actually seem like the predjudices are more pronounced. All you can really do, is the same thing that you'd do in regular society...try to avoid the assholes.
Cinnamon
Cinnamon