Background: Jack and Jill have been exploring the lifestyle for almost two years. They have proceeded with caution, learning much along the way. Due to their cautious approach, their actual play experience with different individuals has been minimal.
Event: A single male (Charles) was found to have quite misrepresented himself.
Due to distance, the initial meet happened over the course of a weekend. Prior to the meet, considerable IM and phone chat had transpired. Absolutely no red flags had appeared (J & J are fairly decent screeners).
Charles stayed over at J & J
Event: A single male (Charles) was found to have quite misrepresented himself.
Due to distance, the initial meet happened over the course of a weekend. Prior to the meet, considerable IM and phone chat had transpired. Absolutely no red flags had appeared (J & J are fairly decent screeners).
Charles stayed over at J & J
yes let the staff know the situation and let them figure out what to do to protect otehr members.
I know that being lied to really really sucks...and I feel for you guys...but look at it this way...of all the things for him to lie about...his age and being divorced are probably not the worst...at least he wasn't still married and cheating...or really is a murderer...as far as reporting him...are they really going to do anything...he lied about his age and marital status...I am sure there are plenty on this site and all the others who do the same...really just take it as a learning experience and move on...don't let this fool drive you out of the lifestyle...don't let him win!! If we all gave up at the first bad experience...I don't think any of us would still be here...good luck...kisses...Naugh-Ty and Lucky B
Dale, let me elaborate on my last e-mail I sent you. About the manipulative guy I had to kick out of our group. We saw this guy make plans for parties we hosted always seperating the wife from her husband. Then he was dumb enough to try it with Lori but she let me know about it. After confronting him on it is when he asked us to be exclusive. When we said no thanks is when he went off the deep end.
Just yesterday I got a call from the male half of a couple we have known for two years. Seems the husband checked cell phone records to make sure they were not in danger of going over their minutes and noticed his wife chatting with this other guy almost every day and sending a ridiculous number of text messages. Sunday night she lied about where she was going and went to see this other guy who is also married. Our friend called the wife of the other guy and asked if she was home on Sunday afternoon and evening and she said she was not and had the kids out for the night with her.
We too feel like we have to alert people but this did not happen on just one website. This idiot is doing the same thing to everyone he meets and we think the guy you speak of is more then likely of the same mold. I think the website should be notified of everything and hope they remove him. I know the site you are talking about and would not hold my breath waiting on anything being done.
As far as J and J are concerned, I think they are way to intelligent to hold the entire lifestyle accountable for one persons behavior. We can`t blame them for being upset and hurt, we are human after all. If J and J ever come to Florida we would love to host them and introduce them to a lot of other good and honest friends of ours.
Joe
Just yesterday I got a call from the male half of a couple we have known for two years. Seems the husband checked cell phone records to make sure they were not in danger of going over their minutes and noticed his wife chatting with this other guy almost every day and sending a ridiculous number of text messages. Sunday night she lied about where she was going and went to see this other guy who is also married. Our friend called the wife of the other guy and asked if she was home on Sunday afternoon and evening and she said she was not and had the kids out for the night with her.
We too feel like we have to alert people but this did not happen on just one website. This idiot is doing the same thing to everyone he meets and we think the guy you speak of is more then likely of the same mold. I think the website should be notified of everything and hope they remove him. I know the site you are talking about and would not hold my breath waiting on anything being done.
As far as J and J are concerned, I think they are way to intelligent to hold the entire lifestyle accountable for one persons behavior. We can`t blame them for being upset and hurt, we are human after all. If J and J ever come to Florida we would love to host them and introduce them to a lot of other good and honest friends of ours.
Joe
Welcome to 'internet swinging'. People lie (constantly) to the point that we are seldom really actively meeting people online. Just not worth the drama. It's like they think they can hide behind their monitors and never reveal the truth, and IF and when you meet them by then you'll be so in lust with them you'll just let the lies go.
Moral of the story, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. And above all BE HONEST WITH PEOPLE, even if you never plan to meet.
Sorry to hear about the bad experience, we've all been there on occasion.
Moral of the story, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. And above all BE HONEST WITH PEOPLE, even if you never plan to meet.
Sorry to hear about the bad experience, we've all been there on occasion.
Maybe just start a post on said website to warn others of this person.
I (we) completely agree with everyone but I have one question...what are you going to report this person for...yes lying is wrong and it sucks to be mislead...but the owners/administrators of these websites have enough to deal with...they can't possibly be responsible for policing honesty too...I don't think reporting him will do any good...
I do believe if you see others interacting with this person then it would be the right thing to do to just warn them..."hey...this guy is not honest...be careful"...then let those people make their own decision because I also don't believe in going around telling EVERYBODY everything that happened...that is how drama gets started...idk...why can't everyone just be who they are and stop misrepresenting themselves...would make this alot easier for all of us...*sighs*...why does something so fun and enjoyable have to be soooo complicated?...kisses...Naugh-Ty and Lucky B
I do believe if you see others interacting with this person then it would be the right thing to do to just warn them..."hey...this guy is not honest...be careful"...then let those people make their own decision because I also don't believe in going around telling EVERYBODY everything that happened...that is how drama gets started...idk...why can't everyone just be who they are and stop misrepresenting themselves...would make this alot easier for all of us...*sighs*...why does something so fun and enjoyable have to be soooo complicated?...kisses...Naugh-Ty and Lucky B
I hate guys like this it makes it really hard on the single males that are responsible and truthful. I have always made it a point that if I travel to meet someone I get a motel room and stay there just in case it doesn't work. I have had a few that were not what they said and it bothers me. I had a wife that kept calling me and that was really messed up, they were great people and we all had a great time and I felt like I lost a good friend but had to end it because of that. But for safety I always stay in a motel.
ABCMan, I just got done chatting with my friend. I asked him how it could get out of hand so bad. He said he asked her about why they have been talking so much since she is one of the females that do the talking for the couple and she said it takes a lot of talking to get plans made. Then he said he felt like he was wrong for questioning her so he kept quiet and trusted her.
He wants to come over tomorrow to talk but I don`t know what to tell him. She wears the pants in the family for sure. And the other guy just saw an opening and took advantage of it.
The point I was making to Dale is that if he can notify administration on that site, he should so it may prevent the guy from taking advantage of other good people. I wish my idiot was doing his contacting on just one site but he is all over the place...except for this site so far luckily.
He wants to come over tomorrow to talk but I don`t know what to tell him. She wears the pants in the family for sure. And the other guy just saw an opening and took advantage of it.
The point I was making to Dale is that if he can notify administration on that site, he should so it may prevent the guy from taking advantage of other good people. I wish my idiot was doing his contacting on just one site but he is all over the place...except for this site so far luckily.
Thank you to all for your input thus far - most helpful to get the opinion of experience!
The disturbing thing is that despite full awareness of the potential for this sort of thing, as well as screening procedures that have worked well to this point, this charlatan was so smooth in his deception he may have gone undetected were it not for a slip-up in one of his stories (although his credibility was fraying as the weekend passed - hard to explain).
There is, of course, more to the story than space permits. Since my first post, he has followed with two emails. The first took an indignant tone accusing J & J of entrapment and other equally stupid shit. It was responded to with suitable outrage and 'Do not contact us again'. That prompted another reply:
"My colleagues were quite astonished at your irreverent and ignorant response. You still don't understand but no matter. Your true identity has reinforced the physical evidence gathered this weekend, and in IM correspondences, which, in their entirety, should comprise a very interesting chapter. Our research clearly indicates male exploitation of the female spouse is the rule in married couples who "swing" and your situation is obviously not an exception to that rule. It is despicable that the Christian wife is subjected to the abhorrent ego/behavior of the "dope" smoking husband."
After several weeks of email and IM'ing and a weekend together getting to know this person - this email still doesn't make any sense. It's actually rather bizarre.
It is not my intent to have this personal story rehashed (or continue to supply additional details) just for the telling - sounds like everyone has their own story, unfortunately. But it raises two points that seem to require additional discussion:
1) There really isn't any standard answer as to when/if a site's administration should be notified of unacceptable behavior. For starters, the aberrant behavior is in the eyes of the beholder (perception). The severity of the perceived indiscretion is a personal opinion. Reporting can obviously lead to the ugly he said/she said/he said conundrum.
2) If the perpetrator gives the impression that they have the potential(key word) to be threatening, or just plain unhinged, the same conundrum applies. Who among us is qualified to identify a REAL problem (vs. having watched too much TV or read too many forum posts leading to over-reaction?
).
At any rate, once again, thanks to all for the great feedback (especially to Daniel and Joe for being there right away with their always worthwhile comments and help).
D
One more thought just occurred. There has been some discussion concerning the severity of poor behavior - in this case lying about age and marital history (this guy actually had to stop an IM session briefly because he couldn't see through his tears caused by the discussion of his dead wife, who wasn't).
My opinion: One lie equates to major chracter issues. It's said that if you catch one rat, it's probable there are ten more around. I believe the same holds true for lies. If there is a lie, there for sure are at least ten more, yet undetected and likely worse than the original.
If sites evicted liars, how many members would they have left?
The disturbing thing is that despite full awareness of the potential for this sort of thing, as well as screening procedures that have worked well to this point, this charlatan was so smooth in his deception he may have gone undetected were it not for a slip-up in one of his stories (although his credibility was fraying as the weekend passed - hard to explain).
There is, of course, more to the story than space permits. Since my first post, he has followed with two emails. The first took an indignant tone accusing J & J of entrapment and other equally stupid shit. It was responded to with suitable outrage and 'Do not contact us again'. That prompted another reply:
"My colleagues were quite astonished at your irreverent and ignorant response. You still don't understand but no matter. Your true identity has reinforced the physical evidence gathered this weekend, and in IM correspondences, which, in their entirety, should comprise a very interesting chapter. Our research clearly indicates male exploitation of the female spouse is the rule in married couples who "swing" and your situation is obviously not an exception to that rule. It is despicable that the Christian wife is subjected to the abhorrent ego/behavior of the "dope" smoking husband."
After several weeks of email and IM'ing and a weekend together getting to know this person - this email still doesn't make any sense. It's actually rather bizarre.
It is not my intent to have this personal story rehashed (or continue to supply additional details) just for the telling - sounds like everyone has their own story, unfortunately. But it raises two points that seem to require additional discussion:
1) There really isn't any standard answer as to when/if a site's administration should be notified of unacceptable behavior. For starters, the aberrant behavior is in the eyes of the beholder (perception). The severity of the perceived indiscretion is a personal opinion. Reporting can obviously lead to the ugly he said/she said/he said conundrum.
2) If the perpetrator gives the impression that they have the potential(key word) to be threatening, or just plain unhinged, the same conundrum applies. Who among us is qualified to identify a REAL problem (vs. having watched too much TV or read too many forum posts leading to over-reaction?
).At any rate, once again, thanks to all for the great feedback (especially to Daniel and Joe for being there right away with their always worthwhile comments and help).
D
One more thought just occurred. There has been some discussion concerning the severity of poor behavior - in this case lying about age and marital history (this guy actually had to stop an IM session briefly because he couldn't see through his tears caused by the discussion of his dead wife, who wasn't).
My opinion: One lie equates to major chracter issues. It's said that if you catch one rat, it's probable there are ten more around. I believe the same holds true for lies. If there is a lie, there for sure are at least ten more, yet undetected and likely worse than the original.
If sites evicted liars, how many members would they have left?
Dale, first off the e-mail you posted in no way describes you. He was busted and is reaching for anything to divert the attention off of his lying and onto your treatment of Cris. Anyone with common sense can spot his diversion tactics a mile away. And being someone who was a widdow at the young age of 33, I find his exploitation of allegedly being in the same tough situation I was in completely dispicable and tasteless.
1) There really isn't any standard answer as to when/if a site's administration should be notified of unacceptable behavior. For starters, the aberrant behavior is in the eyes of the beholder (perception). The severity of the perceived indiscretion is a personal opinion. Reporting can obviously lead to the ugly he said/she said/he said conundrum.
While this is true, you simply can not go wrong for notifying the administration of your experience and concerns. What they do with it is on them but you have met your "responsibility" to the rest of us by notifying the administration of a liar and potentially dangerous person. We belong to another very large site and we hear repeatedly that the site is full of fake profiles. If the administration wants to avoid being labeled in their own negative way, they will take what you say and look into it. If they ignore it, that might tell you something about if that site is the right one for you.
2)If the perpetrator gives the impression that they have the potential(key word) to be threatening, or just plain unhinged, the same conundrum applies. Who among us is qualified to identify a REAL problem (vs. having watched too much TV or read too many forum posts leading to over-reaction?
After reading your initial post, this was almost a non issue for us because we realize it could be taken out of context. The fact he misrepresented himself was all we needed to read. His chances with us were over at that moment we learned he lied about a non issue of divorce versus death. Either way it makes him single, so if he lies about something that just doesn`t matter, why expect him to tell the truth when it comes to something that does actually have some meaning.
He is nothing more then a con artist and we hope you do notify the administration. If you need us, you know how to reach us my friend.
Joe and Lori
1) There really isn't any standard answer as to when/if a site's administration should be notified of unacceptable behavior. For starters, the aberrant behavior is in the eyes of the beholder (perception). The severity of the perceived indiscretion is a personal opinion. Reporting can obviously lead to the ugly he said/she said/he said conundrum.
While this is true, you simply can not go wrong for notifying the administration of your experience and concerns. What they do with it is on them but you have met your "responsibility" to the rest of us by notifying the administration of a liar and potentially dangerous person. We belong to another very large site and we hear repeatedly that the site is full of fake profiles. If the administration wants to avoid being labeled in their own negative way, they will take what you say and look into it. If they ignore it, that might tell you something about if that site is the right one for you.
2)If the perpetrator gives the impression that they have the potential(key word) to be threatening, or just plain unhinged, the same conundrum applies. Who among us is qualified to identify a REAL problem (vs. having watched too much TV or read too many forum posts leading to over-reaction?
After reading your initial post, this was almost a non issue for us because we realize it could be taken out of context. The fact he misrepresented himself was all we needed to read. His chances with us were over at that moment we learned he lied about a non issue of divorce versus death. Either way it makes him single, so if he lies about something that just doesn`t matter, why expect him to tell the truth when it comes to something that does actually have some meaning.
He is nothing more then a con artist and we hope you do notify the administration. If you need us, you know how to reach us my friend.
Joe and Lori
I in NO way intend to downplay or minimize what happened.
It was wrong - and Charles is obviously a player.
Players are almost impossible to spot if they're good at what they do - which he obviously is - and they usually leave a trail of victims behind them.
Sadly, there are deceitful and dishonest people in ALL walks of life - not just the swinging Lifestyle.
We've all been burned by them at one or another point in our lives, and, it will likely happen to a lot of us again.
Trusting in the integrity of our fellow man is a crap shoot at best.
But what's the alternative?
I agree with the others who have suggested burning Charles to the ground on the website.
Notify anyone and everyone you can.
Warn them ahead of time about him.
We'll never rid the world of assholes, but we can at least try to shrink their numbers - one asshole at a time.
It was wrong - and Charles is obviously a player.
Players are almost impossible to spot if they're good at what they do - which he obviously is - and they usually leave a trail of victims behind them.
Sadly, there are deceitful and dishonest people in ALL walks of life - not just the swinging Lifestyle.
We've all been burned by them at one or another point in our lives, and, it will likely happen to a lot of us again.
Trusting in the integrity of our fellow man is a crap shoot at best.
But what's the alternative?
I agree with the others who have suggested burning Charles to the ground on the website.
Notify anyone and everyone you can.
Warn them ahead of time about him.
We'll never rid the world of assholes, but we can at least try to shrink their numbers - one asshole at a time.
I hate to admit it...but it is one of the reasons that we do look for testimonials... if at least one couple has something decent to say about the person...chances are they are not a complete fuck-stick (tom cruise ala tropic thunder...love that word now).
If you meet someone in a bar (vanilla hunting) or someone "unproven" on a site....you run the risk of them being a lying egomaniacal stalker...male or female... You wouldn't hire for any other "position" without checking a reference or two would you?
In regards to this guy in the story...block him..ignore him and send a private email to your friends or anyone who asks so they can look out for him too.....but don
If you meet someone in a bar (vanilla hunting) or someone "unproven" on a site....you run the risk of them being a lying egomaniacal stalker...male or female... You wouldn't hire for any other "position" without checking a reference or two would you?
In regards to this guy in the story...block him..ignore him and send a private email to your friends or anyone who asks so they can look out for him too.....but don
CNKISS - Yet another good response! As a matter of fact, you hit the nail right on the head - that is exactly how we have handled it.
We would like to thank all for their words of wisdom.
There is one thing that the Missus brought up that I hadn't thought of and I don't believe was mentioned here:
She pointed out that a good reason not to piss him off is the potential for 'pic' abuse (private gallery stuff).
We would like to thank all for their words of wisdom.
There is one thing that the Missus brought up that I hadn't thought of and I don't believe was mentioned here:
She pointed out that a good reason not to piss him off is the potential for 'pic' abuse (private gallery stuff).
I think it warrants an e-mail. That's enough of a thing to lie about to sprout a red-flag. It doesn't mean you have to hunt him, but I think it's fair to the other users of the site to make the powers-that-be aware of the situation.
Dale,
We have been in the lifestyle for some time and have plucked some wonderful friends from within the swinging paradigms of the lifestyle village. We are saddened of your experience with "Chuckie". But as it was suggested in all the responses (by the way from people that care) of how to handle this type of character. For him to suggest an incorrect age is one thing and could be shrugged off with a private e-mail to your friends of his wolf in the weeds, looking for prey (type). But to add in his discussion being that of a widow, and to have your full belief of the sort, is actually two counts of defimation (sp) of character, that is punishable by law. But who wants to take it that far. Your best bet is to send an e-mail to the administrator explaining what had happened and use his irreverant, ignorant and irresponsible response that you had posted, as a threat, and they will flag and review his responses to others and yank his rights in the village. I use the term village for a reason. Once there is bad egg in the basket and others start to bring him to others attention, it wouldn't be long before his (as he says) "colleagues" (which makes me laugh) will realize what kind of betrayals he lies in. You and yours seem to be a kind cpl., and its bothersome that this wolf found a prey, and your having to deal with his COPS, CSI and INVESTIGATION REPORTS type verbage in his responses and text's: sorry but, LOL. I wish you luck in your future with the lifestyle and in hopes you see other chuckies before he has the chance to pounce.
We have been in the lifestyle for some time and have plucked some wonderful friends from within the swinging paradigms of the lifestyle village. We are saddened of your experience with "Chuckie". But as it was suggested in all the responses (by the way from people that care) of how to handle this type of character. For him to suggest an incorrect age is one thing and could be shrugged off with a private e-mail to your friends of his wolf in the weeds, looking for prey (type). But to add in his discussion being that of a widow, and to have your full belief of the sort, is actually two counts of defimation (sp) of character, that is punishable by law. But who wants to take it that far. Your best bet is to send an e-mail to the administrator explaining what had happened and use his irreverant, ignorant and irresponsible response that you had posted, as a threat, and they will flag and review his responses to others and yank his rights in the village. I use the term village for a reason. Once there is bad egg in the basket and others start to bring him to others attention, it wouldn't be long before his (as he says) "colleagues" (which makes me laugh) will realize what kind of betrayals he lies in. You and yours seem to be a kind cpl., and its bothersome that this wolf found a prey, and your having to deal with his COPS, CSI and INVESTIGATION REPORTS type verbage in his responses and text's: sorry but, LOL. I wish you luck in your future with the lifestyle and in hopes you see other chuckies before he has the chance to pounce.