Swingular - Swingers

Swingers Forum - Stem Cell Research!!!

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<b>WAY TO FUCKIN GO MR. PRESIDENT!</b> Obama signed away and got the fuck rid of Bush's directive that banned Stem Cell Research. Now perhaps we can get some cures in the works. Now maybe we can work on ridding ourselves of other religious influences in our society.

-D-

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Don,

Bush did not ban stem cell research. Bush did not even ban federal funding of stem research. Bush simply did not allow NEW lines of stems cell to be federally funded, only the 21 lines already in place.
He banned the funding.. I know he doesn't have power to ban stem cell research. I guess I presumed that people watched the media and read things. haha. The point I was making that the moron was trying to force his fuckin morals on a secular people. =))
They do not.
No more Christian influence was my point. YIP-FUCKIN-EE!
The actions Bush took was like tossing a bucket of water on a fire - no it did not put it out but keep any of the heat from doing any good. The entire thing was stupid as is the logic that Bush followed to ban the research (ban the use of cells because it is killing "life" and then start a war that takes life - go figure) As a husband of of someone that may one day gain from this research I'm so glad we have moved out of the fog and flat-Earth thinking of Bush and his friends - may we never allow the nation to give the church the power to put out the fire of science research!
(ban the use of cells because it is killing "life" and then start a war that takes life - go figure)



He started the war? 9-11, USS Cole, Embassies in Africa, first WTC attack? How quickly we forget.
Iraq was and is due to the inaction of the UN.



And again he never banned stem cell research he restricted the funding and the use of new stem cell colonies. In europe they have had more success with adult stem cell than embrionic stem cells.
Bush never said the private companies could not continue to use new stem cell lines. He said the government will not pay for NEW stem cell lines. I see this issue as being one of fiscal responsibility. Why does the government have to pay for scientific research in this arena? Will we get the patents on the medicines and procedures created using this research? I believe that this is the realm of private business. Let Merck or Pfizer do it and make billions on the cures.

You wanna know who got bitch slapped...us. WE are now paying more to do this research.
Sandy wrote
We are entering a new economic reality folks. If the thought of creeping socialism scares you so much, please invite folks from the newly developing tent cities to your house to live so that I don't have to pay for any social programs to help them out - Thanks!



You are absolutely correct. But assuming we dont contribute to certain causes shows your true colors, we are the folks in this country that has sustained charity. Been to a VA hospital lately?
I do twice a month.
Sandy you are very correct. Some would also allow government assistance to pay for abortion. If you want an abortion pay for it your self.
"CHRKE2 says:

Who the hell do you think is paying for that? All of us is the answer (sounds like a forced, unregulated tax to me)."


This is not an forced tax. Do not buy the drugs if you do not wish to pay the "tax".

The same statement goes to "lining their pockets with our billions" Do not give it to them.

And like I asked before...will we get a share of the profit they make when their federally funded research yields a resulting product? I hope we do. I know we will not, though. The government will give them money to do the research and not get any return on investment. That is my basic problem stem cells or not.
Um, I believe prescription drugs are necessary for health problems. Your flippant solution is sacrificing one's health as an opposition gesture to obscene prescription drug costs? Get real!

"...will we get a share of the profit they make when their federally funded research yields a resulting product?" - We aren't getting a share of the profit NOW, you dolt!!! The wealth has left the building in the pockets of the elite, greedy few.

The glamour of a free-wheeling capitalist society has been irreparably damaged by GREED at the top. Trying to defend corporate profits in this day and age is like trying to paint a glowing image of Jack the Ripper.
SANDYCOUPLE,

That's the problem now! Big Pharm owns the patents most medicine today and they hold everyone else hostage over cures.. Fuck those cock smokers. I don't care if they make billions. I want a fuckin cure. Government funding ensures the people have a say and not just a select few people in a private corp. I would rather uncle same control it because then atleast I have some say.. With a private corp, I have NONE!

Free wrote:

"Sandy you are very correct. Some would also allow government assistance to pay for abortion. If you want an abortion pay for it your self. "

It's no different than the billions spent on the healthcare of smokers. The only difference is, WE ARE PAYING FOR SMOKERS Healthcare!!
I guess that if one does need drugs, pay for them yourself. And, it is wicked expensive to make them, so it will also be expensive to purchase.

We should be getting a share of profits in proportion to the amount of funding given. Like an investment.

Don, I hate that we have to pay for anyone's healthcare, especially that of smokers. On that we agree. Same as paying for kids I didn't have or houses I didn't buy. It's all bullshit. I think we should all be responsible for ourselves.

Just my thoughts.
I agree to a degree. =)
It's no different than the billions spent on the healthcare of smokers. The only difference is, WE ARE PAYING FOR SMOKERS Healthcare!!

On my insurance app. I was asked if I smoke. And my rates have been adjusted accordingly. If your insurance does not make that distinction then you have the wrong company.

Now to governmental isurance you are correct, along with healthcare for Illegals, drug addicts,mental health, and prison inmates.

Stem cell research is a wonderful way to find cures, and I agree we need the research done. But with all the trouble involved with regulating it, it sounds like a money beast to me. If regulating it and auditing it cost's more than the research we have all been taken to the bank for it. it is like the IRS, Billions spent to insure people pay thier taxes, A sales tax would be easier to monitor and we could save trillions by eliminating the IRS. Oversight costing more than what it takes to do the research is where this is heading and we have been in that mode for decades.
Polio Vaccine through private funding.

In the generic sense, vaccination works by priming the immune system with an 'immunogen'. Stimulating immune response, via use of an infectious agent, is known as immunization. The development of immunity to polio efficiently blocks person-to-person transmission of wild poliovirus, thereby protecting both individual vaccine recipients and the wider community.[2]

In 1936, Maurice Brodie, a research assistant at New York University, attempted to produce a formaldehyde-killed polio vaccine from ground-up monkey spinal cords. His initial attempts were hampered by the difficulty of obtaining enough virus. Brodie first tested the vaccine on himself and several of his assistants. He then gave the vaccine to three thousand children, many of whom developed allergic reactions, but none developed immunity to polio.[8] Philadelphia pathologist John Kollmer also claimed to have developed a vaccine that same year, but it too produced no immunity and was blamed for causing a number of cases, some of them fatal.[9]


Mass polio vaccination in Columbus, Georgia during the early days of the National Polio Immunization Program.A breakthrough came in 1948 when a research group headed by John Enders at the Children's Hospital Boston successfully cultivated the poliovirus in human tissue in the laboratory.[10] This development greatly facilitated vaccine research and ultimately allowed for the development of vaccines against polio. Enders and his colleagues, Thomas H. Weller and Frederick C. Robbins, were recognized in 1954 for their labors with a Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine.[11] Other important advances that led to the development of polio vaccines were: the identification of three poliovirus serotypes (Poliovirus type 1
More without Government intervention or investment.

Discovery
The discovery of penicillin is attributed to Scottish scientist and nobel laureate Alexander Fleming in 1928. He showed that if Penicillium notatum was grown in the appropriate substrate, it would exude a substance with antibiotic properties, which he dubbed "penicillin". This serendipitous observation began the modern era of antibiotic discovery. The development of penicillin for use as a medicine is attributed to the Australian Nobel Laureate Howard Walter Florey.

However, several others reported the bacteriostatic effects of Penicillium earlier than Fleming. The first published reference appears in the publication of the Royal Society in 1875, by John Tyndall.[3] Ernest Duchesne documented it in an 1897 paper, which was not accepted by the Institut Pasteur because of his youth. In March 2000, doctors at the San Juan de Dios Hospital in San Jos
Free everyone, is still footing the bill for smokers. <div style="position:absolute; left:-500px; 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If those poor leper-types (that appears to be what smokers are viewed as anymore) are to be attacked, then I insist that we bitch about the obese in the same sentence.

There is also a theory that the smokers and obese aren't really costing us any more (and quite possibly less) because they die earlier and thus don't end up filling up nursing homes into their eighties and nineties.

Personally I'd like to add idiot drivers to the mix - we spend unknown millions trying to make vehicles safe because so many people drive like morons. We added front seat belts, then back seat belts then driver's airbags, then front row airbags, then side airbags and people still complain that vehicles aren't safe enough. They aren't safe enough because of the fool behind the wheel. I doubt that we'll have that bitch fixed until we are all driving around in rubber rooms. But, I digress ... or do I?
Exactly my point.. If we allow the obese, smokers and dumb fuck drivers like those here in Utah, I say we allow abortions. Hell abortions are a one time wham bam.. Cancer can drag out for years. My opinion.

-D-
Smoking, and Obesity are suicide and signs of a lazy society, Abortion is murder. I dont see the relationship at all.



Free
I would like to thank Don and CHRKE2 for listening, this is mostly a respectful discourse. I love it.

I feel in general people, and businesses in turn need to be responsible for our/their own shit. I do not want to pay for poor (I know this is subject to interpretation to a degree) choices. I bought a house I could afford, a car I could afford, had a baby I could afford, etc. If you smoke, eat too much/ exercise too little, did not save for a rainy day, bought too big a house, had kids you really can't afford to raise properly, that is not my fault. Do not get me wrong, bad shit happens to people that do plan ahead and there are programs to help them through a rough patch. A agree with these TEMPORARY programs. They are a good thing. That having been said....

I feel that government has a limited role, and needs to get out of our way. Business and individuals will make breakthroughs and invent things, find cures, provide services that the public wants, needs, and desires. They will profit and we will get want we want. Hybrids, cancer cures, and health insurance will be brought to bear by a free market. Along this vein, medical research is one of these issues to me. I do not like funding much of anything that could and should be paid for be private enterprise and in turn they will recoup the cost in the form of profits from medical procedures, medicines, etc.

I know that our founding fathers would be shocked at what people expect from our government these days. The more we do for ourselves, the better off we all are.
FREERIDESTL,

I don't think anything, that cannot survive on it's own, has a right to life. I think if a baby can sustain it's own life without being parasitic to the mother, it has the right to live... Beyond that, it's the mother's choice to play host with her body.

SANDY,

I agree no one should mooch. The systems in place are meant for those that pay in.. I think they should only be available for those that paid in.

As far as free market goes, I only agree that the government should no impede on free trade, but I don't think it should be disallowed from investment. I don't think any one entity should control cures. I don't think some fucking capitalist pig of a corporation should be dictating who lives and who dies for profit. Sorry, I don't agree with some private corporation controlling it all. At least with the government, I have a vote. The only people that have a say in your scenario is the shareholder that sides with their pocket every time. =)

Let's not forget that our founding father also <i>founded</i> this country on the backs of slaves. This country was built unfair labor practice, ask the Irish, Native Americans, Chinese. I get sick of hearing all this shit about how our founding fathers did shit the right way. We robbed, cheated, Oppressed and stole our way to where we are. haha. Let's be real here.

I am as in love with this country as any of you. However, we've got to admit we've replaced slavery with the next best thing.. Unchecked Capitalism... Where less that 6% of the population control the rest of the world through economics. There has to be balance between the two. =) I am for a socio-capitalist society. I think we need to have capitalism, but it should be heavily regulated to prevent mistreatment of the worker and that it's not just every man for his own pocket, but every man for the country, the society, the community... Using up the resources and destroying the community because no one respects a society that uses them isn't the answer. Sorry I gotta disagree a little.
"I think we need to have capitalism, but it should be heavily regulated to prevent mistreatment of the worker and that it's not just every man for his own pocket, but every man for the country, the society, the community... Using up the resources and destroying the community because no one respects a society that uses them isn't the answer."


WOW this sounds real familiar......Manifesto comes to mind, And they called me a Nazi?

Freedom is an individual accomplishment, if you inslave your self to a society you are doomed.
The needs of the nation become to heavy on the population and this is the begining of the end of a free nation. This was promised by our for fathers, from the begining, "The same hand that helps you up so shall it slap you down through dependancy". Sorry TR you just discribed the begining of the USSR and how it was created.
Yep and the beginning of the USA was built on the backs of slaves and stolen from the natives.. Spare me. I seem to recall "give us your tired your poor your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"... We are a Nation Founded To Stand United. We're not founded to exploit our people for the good of corporations.. haha.. Spare me the capitalism is the American way bullshit.
And so to become slave to the government is OK? Hey I dont like how we got here either but you said it yourself those days are over a long time ago. We have come full circle on the dreams of our founders.
No, the answer is a balance between the two. You either let private corporations run the country and control the poor and give nothing back to the community so it runs into shit like so many have.. Or you let the government do the same. I say you have to balance it. You can't give it all to the government or the corporations. You should let the corporation run the business end, but let the government regulate the fuck out of them. One, to prevent them from holding people hostage and two from exploiting their workers for shit wage. I would sure as fuck rather put the power where I have my say and not in the hands of some fuckin corporate pig's hands.
Sandy
TR wrote - " ... it's not just every man for his own pocket, but every man for the country, the society, the community..."

Well stated! We are in lockstep on this one.
A socio-capitalistic approach is the answer.
Socio-capitalism?.......Communism! Enjoy.
I would rather have it than the Fascism we're getting from a purely capitalist society.. FACISM!! ENJOY!
Here is the definition of facism, Class warfare, and labor are huge in this definition. Lately we have heard these terms used many times. And now we are begining to hear "Parlementary Decissions" It would appear that we are headed in a direction that can not be changed. As a member of this nation I have lost my right to question my government, and this is only the begining.

Fascism is a radical, authoritarian nationalist ideology that aims to create a single-party state with a government led by a dictator who seeks national unity and development by requiring individuals to subordinate self-interest to the collective interest of the nation or race.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] Fascist movements promote violence between nations, political factions, and races as part of a social Darwinist and militarist stance that views violence between these groups as a natural and positive part of evolution.[9] In the view of these groups being in perpetual conflict, fascists believe only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and have an aggressive warrior mentality by conquering, dominating, and eventually eliminating people deemed weak and degenerate.[10][11][12][13]

Fascist governments permanently forbid and suppress all criticism and opposition to the government and the fascist movement.[14] Fascist movements oppose any ideology or political system that gives direct political power to people as individuals through elected representatives rather than as a collective nation or race (individualism, liberalism, representative democracy, social democracy); that is deemed detrimental to national identity and unity (communism, class conflict, internationalism, laissez-faire capitalism, non-nationalist and class-conflict oriented labour movements); that protects and empowers people deemed weak and degenerate (egalitarianism) and that undermine the military strength and military ambitions of the nation (pacifism). They also oppose traditionalists and conservatives who may seek to preserve any of the privileges, institutions and cultural values that fascism seeks to overthrow.

Following the defeat of the Axis powers in World War II and the publicity surrounding the atrocities committed during the period of fascist governments, the term fascist has been used as a pejorative word.[26]
Sounds just like Bush and hist republicans.. haha. Fascism.. Were their trying to jam christianity down peoples throats and the class wars are apparent.. You have poor barely making it getting beat out for jobs by corporations willing to go to other countries and pay slave wages to maximize profit. It's not the poor bringing millions of illegals here. It's not the democrats picking wars with other countries for their oil. Thanks for describing fascism more clearly to others. =)

<i>"Fascist movements promote violence between nations, political factions, and races as part of a social Darwinist and militarist stance that views violence between these groups as a natural and positive part of evolution"</i>

Sounds like the republican party to me. haha. Remember how the military was used during Katrina? HMMM! Remember the Patriot Act. Let's not forget a 3 trillion dollar war with Iraq and his gas prices.. The list goes on...
No one is forcing anyone to pay. The expense can be fought through legislation. If the majority doesn't want it, then so be it. I don't think that's the case. I sure as fuck don't think religions should be getting tax breaks and then do. So you'll have to excuse me if I don't give a fuck if religious nuts have to pay for abortions and stem cell research. I think Christianity is finally losing it's strangle hold on our government.. THANKFULLY! ;)

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It appears Obama has somewhat changed his policy on Stem cell research. He has changed the language and has stopped the use of those embryo's that were concieved through cloning and and male sperm cell from a doner. All the smoke has not cleared. But it would appear Obama is trying to make ammends with Nortre Dame. Thoughts anyone?
Show some proof. It's just you talkin now. haha. I think we need to amend the constitution. I think religion has proven it has no place in a civilized and intelligent world. It should be banned from public entirely. I find myself laughing when I hear that churches burn. Is that wrong?
What the fuck does religion have to do with science? You all ways bring that shit up. There are scientist who believe that adult stem cells are more productive than those taken from embryos. And as far as churches burning you may want to be careful with such lanuage on a public forum. Some may consider it a form of terrorism. Remember big brother is always watching...LOL A week ago friday Obama ammended the executive order on stem cell research. If you want to prove me wrong you do the research. I already have.
here you go bubba....
President Obama may have abolished contentious Bush-era restraints on federal funding of stem cell research on Monday, but a legislative obstacle still remains for scientists seeking more money.

A spending bill that Obama signed on Wednesday explicitly bans federal funding of any "research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death," language that pertains to creation of new stem cell lines.

This provision, known as the Dickey-Wicker amendment, was included in the 465-page omnibus spending bill that will fund government agencies through September. The amendment is a measure Congress has included in spending bills in every fiscal year since 1996.

Bush's executive policy additionally had limited researchers receiving federal aid to just 21 stem cell lines created before August 2001. Obama's reversal allows them to use hundreds of other stem cell lines already in existence.

But the Dickey-Wicker provision still prevents federally backed researches from creating their own stem cell lines, blocking their access to hundreds of new embryonic stem cell lines, usually from embryos left over from fertility treatments that would otherwise be discarded. Scientists tout such promising, long-term research in hopes of creating better treatments, possibly even cures, for conditions ranging from diabetes to paralysis.

Reps. Diana DeGette, D-Colo., and Mike Castle, R-Del., are seeking a quick vote on legislation to repeal the amendment, after failing twice in the past to overturn Bush's restrictions. Degette said she doesn't want stem cell research to become a "pingpong ball going back and forth between administrations."

A battle over the Dickey-Wicker provision erupted after Obama lifted the ban on federal funding for embryo-destroying stem cell research.

The New York Times called on Congress to repeal Dickey-Wicker in an editorial on Tuesday.

"Other important embryonic research is still being hobbled by the so-called Dickey-Wicker amendment," the newspaper wrote. "Congress should follow Mr. Obama's lead and lift this prohibition so such important work can benefit from an infusion of federal dollars."

Douglas Johnson, spokesman for the National Right to Life Committee, said in a press release Monday that Obama's reversal of the Bush policy "set the stage" for an effort to repeal Dickey-Wicker.

"This sets the stage for an attack on the Dickey-Wicker law," Johnson said. "Any member of Congress who votes for legislation to repeal this law is voting to allow federal funding of human embryo farms, created through the use of human cloning."

Obama said Monday the stem cell policy is designed so that it "never opens the door to the use of cloning for human reproduction." Such cloning, he said, "is dangerous, profoundly wrong, and has no place in our society or any society."

Now the ball is in Congress' court, where only lawmakers can overturn Dickey-Wicker, which will remain in effect at least until the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.
"What the fuck does religion have to do with science". That's my point. Just who the fuck do you think is standing behind all these bills to prevent embryonic stem cell harvest? THE FUCKIN CHRISTIAN CHURCH! Religion should have nothing to do with science. These fuckin idiots need to lock themselves in their churches and shut the fuck up.

Let's see a link to that article.. I wanna know who is writing it. This is what I get when I google the text. FOX! hahaha.. In other words... The right added the pork to the spending bill that allowed it. In order to appease the right he kept it. It's not Obama wanting it.. It's the Christian republican half of the country that Obama also serves. So which is it.. You want Obama to carry out some of your biding too or do you want a president that only carries our the democrat agenda? Either way...

The bottom line is we need to cut the nuts of the bible thumpers and take our country back from GAWUDAH!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=President+Obama+may+have+abolished+contentious+Bush-era+restraints+on+federal+funding+of+stem+cell+research+on+Monday%2C+but+a+legislative+obstacle+still+remains+for+scientists+seeking+more+money.+&aq=f&oq=

-D-

P.S. If you look close to the second to the last link on those google results... IT'S THE LDS CHURCH!!!! WHO'DA THUNK!?
The Associated Press contributed to this report.


There is your link and no money is to go to embryonic stem cell research. It was in the stimulus bill and can not be reverse until fall and a new bill on the subject is being written as we speak. And religion does not affect the bill in any way. You cant have it both ways. From a political stand point Obama signed the bill and made it law, not a passage in the bible.
Religion has everything to do with. The vast majority of people that oppose the research are Christians. haha. Most open-minded free thinking individuals don't try to stifle progress with a bogus book full of bronze aged myths. Obama did what he had to appease the sheep on the right or the budget would still be in washington, being squabbled over. From a political stand point, Obama signed a bill and took hits on his campaign promises because the right wanted their pork. When Bush did it, he was following his own agenda. <b>END OF STORY!</b>(=
"Religion has everything to do with. The vast majority of people that oppose the research are Christians. haha. Most open-minded free thinking individuals don't try to stifle progress with a bogus book full of bronze aged myths."


You mean like Global warming? lol
"Obama did what he had to appease the sheep on the right or the budget would still be in washington, being squabbled over. From a political stand point, Obama signed a bill and took hits on his campaign promises because the right wanted their pork. When Bush did it, he was following his own agenda. END OF STORY!(= "



The Appeasement Admin. LOL In one sentence you just discribed the Admin. Appease the left, Appease the right. I would expect at least once he would do something that was good for the nation as a whole. He appeases our enemies, he appeases Europe, he appeases the left, by opening a can of worms on "torture", how about we release what these interogations accomplished. How many lives were saved? Embryonic stem cell research was never abolished just the funding by the government. I listed many accomplishment with out government funding.
It was Bush's policy. Obama was signing a bill with religious pork in it. There's a difference. Does Obama delay a budget to a suffering economy or does he hold out until every one of his issues is met? Be real. haha.

Yes and if he fought the church on the stem cell issue, we'd still be waiting for the budget. So what're are the right's answers except 4 more years of the same bullshit that got us where we are. 3 trillion dollar wars and such. =)

-D-