In the news this morning there was a story about the governor trying to pass a law to take away food taxes and replace it with cigarette taxes. The taxes on tobacco are currently 70 cents per pack. They are preposing to raise them to over $3 per pack. this money would go to fund everything in the goverments budget that the current food taxes pay for. Their reasoning is because smoking causes health issues to everyone (polution). So let me ask this... if the reasoning is polution and health issues, then I propose that the goverment impose a tax on all those attending church on sundays. How much polution do you think it causes when all of those thousands and thousands of vehicles drive to and from church on sundays? With the green house gases vehicles produce, i guarantee it causes more polution than smokers do. Where's the equality? I guess there is no equality in a state ran by a church.
OK sorry.. but what the hell is so many peoples problem and trying to make everything anti-mormon.. We are not from utah, nor are we mormon.. but we choose to live here in no small part because of the community we live in.. When we moved here, not one of our neighbors who is mormon has ever excluded or alienated us, and the haven't been bashing our door down with missionaries.. Fine, if you want to make "The church" as you put it pay taxes.. make it apply to all religions.. after all, I know alot of catholics, jews, buddhists, etc who drive to church too.. honestly.. for being in a lifestyle where we like to say live and let live, sometimes alot of us are very intolerant of others and their beliefs. And just to set it straight, I am for the cigarette tax, so if that makes me unpopular.. no loss, don't like smokers anyway.. the reason, I saw what it did to my mom all her life.
Bren
Bren
Well I personally quit a year ago, and wifey quit and is on her patch program, so they can tax ciggies till they turn blue..not gonna get another friggin dime of cig tax money outta us!
Way to go Wolf!! That's a tough change to make. You deserve a reward....mmmm...let's see...what would be a good reward??
FUNFUNFUNINUT,
It has everything to do with people trying to legislate their dogma. The 1st & 14th Amendments are suppose to protect us from laws respecting establishments of religion, like the mormon church.
I am not so sure that the church really applies to this particular law, as I think many non-smokers, religious or not, wouldn't mind seeing this happen. The problem people have with churches, is that they try and force others to adhere to their dogma through unconstitutional legislation like proposition 8 in California.. Something the Mormon Church was definitely involved in.. Let's also look at the ridiculous alcohol laws here in Utah. I could go on and on, bringing up bullshit unconstitutional adultry, fornication, prostitution and polygamy laws... Religion has, for far too long, encroached on the liberty of those who want no part. How can you trully ever have freedom of religion, if you are forced to adhere to someone else's dogma?
GREENERPASTORS,
Yeah be glad to have a community of religious folk that would gladly have you prosecuted for swinging.. haha.. FUCK THAT!
-D-
It has everything to do with people trying to legislate their dogma. The 1st & 14th Amendments are suppose to protect us from laws respecting establishments of religion, like the mormon church.
I am not so sure that the church really applies to this particular law, as I think many non-smokers, religious or not, wouldn't mind seeing this happen. The problem people have with churches, is that they try and force others to adhere to their dogma through unconstitutional legislation like proposition 8 in California.. Something the Mormon Church was definitely involved in.. Let's also look at the ridiculous alcohol laws here in Utah. I could go on and on, bringing up bullshit unconstitutional adultry, fornication, prostitution and polygamy laws... Religion has, for far too long, encroached on the liberty of those who want no part. How can you trully ever have freedom of religion, if you are forced to adhere to someone else's dogma?
GREENERPASTORS,
Yeah be glad to have a community of religious folk that would gladly have you prosecuted for swinging.. haha.. FUCK THAT!
-D-
Rabbitt:
MMMMM, we can think of lots of fun rewards!
MMMMM, we can think of lots of fun rewards!
tequilarose: thats exactly why i have an issue with it and many many other ways they rule this state. seems your the only one that got that point. For the record, I have no issues with church goers, religions..ect...n fact i used to be one..lol what gets me is the lack of seperation from church and state. This post was not to offend people it was only a thought I found to be sarcastic and funny. people don't need to take life so serious all the time...:z
I guess that's the catch 22 of living in a system where people vote and elect representatives.. Not everyone gets their way all the time.. and guess what.. that's ok.. So what if I have to get my drink mixed behind a glass.. I can still get my drink.. last time I checked not even utah county was dry.. unlike many counties in other states.. After living in Tennesee, I would gladly put up with the "dogma" of mormoms.. I choose to live in a state where I am not in the majority religion.. and because I choose that, I willingly accept that there are some things I may not agree with. It's my choice to be here.. as more than likely most of you chose to be here.. yet here you are, bitching about a choice YOU made.. Guess what.. life means not everyone gets their way.. so grow up, stop whining about it, adjust and move on.. and if you hate it that bad... I don't recall seeing armed guards keeping people from leaving utah.
just because we live here does not mean we are not entitled to our OPINIONS. thats what the forum is about...is expressing oppinions... they are not personal attack on those who choose to read them. relax....again life"s too short to be so serious...here...i'm passing you some exlax:z
While I agree that the religion really has nothing to do with this issue, I do see why people have issues with religion. That's not what I was saying. A church trying to better the lives of it's <b><u>own</u></b> members is perfectly fine. I am all for people banding together and abstaining from things, holding pacts and different tenets of their religion, to feel, in their minds, that they're more righteous than the rest of us. However, I take issue when they legislate said tenets/dogma and I am forced, by law, to deal with it.
Laws against murder, rape and other violent crimes are acceptable and laws that promote public safety are tolerable to a degree, so long as you don't sacrifice your liberty and freedom to try an attain a perfectly safe society. Ben Franklin wrote himself,
"those that sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither"
So I am not, as our founding fathers were not, for a Church telling me how to live. I am not for someone telling me who I can fuck, whether I should pay for it, who I can marry etc. It is my choice.
So let's not mistake a church looking out for it's members for a church trying to dictate to a state through legislation. See the 1st Amendment... Then take a look at the 14th.
This guy is pretty much correct and I share his view:
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-D-
Laws against murder, rape and other violent crimes are acceptable and laws that promote public safety are tolerable to a degree, so long as you don't sacrifice your liberty and freedom to try an attain a perfectly safe society. Ben Franklin wrote himself,
"those that sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither"
So I am not, as our founding fathers were not, for a Church telling me how to live. I am not for someone telling me who I can fuck, whether I should pay for it, who I can marry etc. It is my choice.
So let's not mistake a church looking out for it's members for a church trying to dictate to a state through legislation.
See the 1st Amendment... Then take a look at the 14th.This guy is pretty much correct and I share his view:
<script>document.write('<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="ht'+'tp://w'+'ww.
&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="ht'+'tp://w'+'ww.
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-D-
lol..yes let's GET NAKED..hehehe... seriously... about the whole comment taxing the church goers out there..it was a sarcastic remark with a deeper meaning of where does the rediculous crusade on completely controling other peoples lives stop? The comment was meant to be over the top rediculous to get the point accross of how rediculous it is that this state will stop at no ends. I don't seriously think they should tax church goers. And it was NOT an attack on those who do go to church. I could've so easily made an outrageous comment about taxing parents driving there kids to and from school everyday (something I do as well).
I have to add.... it's been interesting following the way this post has taken dirrection... oh and the you tube man... was good..LOVE IT!!
I have to add.... it's been interesting following the way this post has taken dirrection... oh and the you tube man... was good..LOVE IT!!
It is fine buy me to tax the Cig's.
Now they are talkin about not 1st, not 2nd, but 3rd hand smoke.
Not a smoker but I like my food! So it would give me a tax break. I like that too! Smoke does not only effect the one who chooses it it effects us all.
As for clubs going smoke free. I don't stink that night or my cloths the next time I pick them up again.
Now they are talkin about not 1st, not 2nd, but 3rd hand smoke.
Not a smoker but I like my food! So it would give me a tax break. I like that too! Smoke does not only effect the one who chooses it it effects us all.
As for clubs going smoke free. I don't stink that night or my cloths the next time I pick them up again.
Quoting from USA TODAY:
"As Congress weighs the biggest federal cigarette tax hike in history, a USA TODAY analysis finds that higher state taxes on smokers have produced sharp declines in consumption. The amount of decline in smoking is directly tied to the size of tax increase, the analysis shows. Cigarette sales fell 18% in North Carolina last year after the tax was raised in two steps to 35 cents from a nickel. The tobacco growing state registered higher cigarette taxes until 2005.
Connecticut has increased its tax to $1.51 from 50 cents per pack in 2002. SInce then per capita consumption of cigarettes has fallen 37%"
"As Congress considers raising the federal cigarette tax to $1.00 per pack, the nation may be about to experience one of the bigest one-time declines in smoking, health experts and economists say. I expect a bigger drop than almost anything we've seen before, says Frank Chaloupka, a University of Illinois economist who has studied the effect of taxes on smoking."
"Nobody should cry because of lower consumption of a product that kills half the people who use it, says Danny McGoldrick, vice president of research at the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids."
Just as a point of interest...
Taxes on cigarettes per state: (taken at random.. no specific order)
New York $ Tax rate per pack changed June 3, 2008 $2.75 per pack of 20
South Carolina $ Tax rate per pack changed July 1, 1977 $0.07 cents per pack of 20
Florida $ Tax rate per pack changed July 1, 1990 $0.33.9 cents per pack of 20
Michigan $ Tax rate per pack changed July 1, 2004 $2.00 per pack of 20
South Dakota $ Tax rate per pack changed January 1, 2007 $1.52 per pack of 20
Maine $ Tax rate per pack changed September 19, 2005 $2.00 per pack of 20
Arizona $ Tax rate per pack changed December 4, 2006 $2.00 per pack of 20
Idaho $ Tax rate per pack changed June 1, 2003 $0.57 per pack of 20
Washington State $ Tax rate per pack changed July 1, 2005 $2.25 per pack of 20
Hawaii and Alaska $ Tax rate per pack changed July 1, 2007 $2.00 per pack of 20
Wyoming $ Tax rate per pack changed July 1, 2003 $0.60 per pack of 20
Colorado $ Tax rate per pack changed January 1, 2005 $0.84 per pack of 20
Then lets look at Utah $Tax rate per pack changed May 6, 2002 $0.69.5 per pack of 20
This was a random sampling, there are several other states that are less, but a majority more of the states are higher than Utah.
I dont seem to believe the taxes are being determined by any church in any of these states, much less Utah. If that was the case I think Utahs taxes on smoking would be much greater rather than so much lower than the national average. I also doubt that congress and its considerations on greater taxes on tobacco are being influenced by any religion. I firmly believe this issue is both financially and health oriented... Lets keep religion out. Utah, Mormons, Satan.... etc have nothing to do with this issue.
"As Congress weighs the biggest federal cigarette tax hike in history, a USA TODAY analysis finds that higher state taxes on smokers have produced sharp declines in consumption. The amount of decline in smoking is directly tied to the size of tax increase, the analysis shows. Cigarette sales fell 18% in North Carolina last year after the tax was raised in two steps to 35 cents from a nickel. The tobacco growing state registered higher cigarette taxes until 2005.
Connecticut has increased its tax to $1.51 from 50 cents per pack in 2002. SInce then per capita consumption of cigarettes has fallen 37%"
"As Congress considers raising the federal cigarette tax to $1.00 per pack, the nation may be about to experience one of the bigest one-time declines in smoking, health experts and economists say. I expect a bigger drop than almost anything we've seen before, says Frank Chaloupka, a University of Illinois economist who has studied the effect of taxes on smoking."
"Nobody should cry because of lower consumption of a product that kills half the people who use it, says Danny McGoldrick, vice president of research at the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids."
Just as a point of interest...
Taxes on cigarettes per state: (taken at random.. no specific order)
New York $ Tax rate per pack changed June 3, 2008 $2.75 per pack of 20
South Carolina $ Tax rate per pack changed July 1, 1977 $0.07 cents per pack of 20
Florida $ Tax rate per pack changed July 1, 1990 $0.33.9 cents per pack of 20
Michigan $ Tax rate per pack changed July 1, 2004 $2.00 per pack of 20
South Dakota $ Tax rate per pack changed January 1, 2007 $1.52 per pack of 20
Maine $ Tax rate per pack changed September 19, 2005 $2.00 per pack of 20
Arizona $ Tax rate per pack changed December 4, 2006 $2.00 per pack of 20
Idaho $ Tax rate per pack changed June 1, 2003 $0.57 per pack of 20
Washington State $ Tax rate per pack changed July 1, 2005 $2.25 per pack of 20
Hawaii and Alaska $ Tax rate per pack changed July 1, 2007 $2.00 per pack of 20
Wyoming $ Tax rate per pack changed July 1, 2003 $0.60 per pack of 20
Colorado $ Tax rate per pack changed January 1, 2005 $0.84 per pack of 20
Then lets look at Utah $Tax rate per pack changed May 6, 2002 $0.69.5 per pack of 20
This was a random sampling, there are several other states that are less, but a majority more of the states are higher than Utah.
I dont seem to believe the taxes are being determined by any church in any of these states, much less Utah. If that was the case I think Utahs taxes on smoking would be much greater rather than so much lower than the national average. I also doubt that congress and its considerations on greater taxes on tobacco are being influenced by any religion. I firmly believe this issue is both financially and health oriented... Lets keep religion out. Utah, Mormons, Satan.... etc have nothing to do with this issue.
Dam picked a good time to Stop. It was either the Taxes that were going to kill me or the Wife. lol 1 Week and Counting 
Interesting debate.
However...for all of the proponents of taxing smokers in leiu of maintaining a food tax for all of us, simply because it's "healthier" for all involved, I say "NAY"!
Perhaps we should keep in mind that as of several years ago, obesity OUTRANKED both heavy smoking and drinking in terms of overall healthcare-related costs.
No doubt that smoking is unhealthy.
So is over-indulgent drinking.
So is over-indulgent eating.
Let's keep things in perspective.
Sure...increase the tax on cigarettes to help offset the cost healthcare for the smokers, that's just peachy, but keep the food tax as well. Eventually, those tax dollars that come from food will be needed to cover the rising cost of obesity and diabetes.
However...for all of the proponents of taxing smokers in leiu of maintaining a food tax for all of us, simply because it's "healthier" for all involved, I say "NAY"!
Perhaps we should keep in mind that as of several years ago, obesity OUTRANKED both heavy smoking and drinking in terms of overall healthcare-related costs.
No doubt that smoking is unhealthy.
So is over-indulgent drinking.
So is over-indulgent eating.
Let's keep things in perspective.
Sure...increase the tax on cigarettes to help offset the cost healthcare for the smokers, that's just peachy, but keep the food tax as well. Eventually, those tax dollars that come from food will be needed to cover the rising cost of obesity and diabetes.
Some how we are goin to have to ALL pay for this BAILOUT. So taxes should rise on everything I would assume. BTW I wonder where they got the money for all of this. I picture in my mind them goin to I dont know CHINA and giving them the deed or title of IOWA or NORTH DAKOTA. Ya know one of those useless states. China is the pawn shop they hold the title till we pay them back.
so what is going to happen when no one smokes. They government is killing one of the golden goose. witch sin tax next booze. the peter tax. what else. all i want is someone who will cut taxes and get the government off my back. the 16 admendment was never rattified.so wtf.
oh rabbit i quit a long time ago can i get some reward.
oh rabbit i quit a long time ago can i get some reward.
I find it interesting that non LDS folks in Utah want to blame everything the legislature does on the church. Apparently they have never lived anywhere where a dominant religion actually legislates. Take Parts of KY where we lived for a time. Dry county, no alcohol sold period for 50 miles. Illegal to dance in the county, so the local schools had to have prom in a neighboring county. Wow and the dominant religion wasn't LDS.
Take smoking, what got this discussion going. Utah took how long to decide to ban smoking in clubs, there are state that ban smoking in parks, in your own homes and apartments and they are not dominated By LDS legislators.
There are plenty of issues with a dominant religion controlling the legislature, but smoking is not one of them. But then again does the church control the legislature or is the legislature dominated by members of the LDS church.
But part of the reason we live in utah is because of the climate. We have lived in many states and countries and Utah by far has been the best place we have ever lived for crime, schools and trusting our kids to be safe.
Nope not LDS, but their culture and morals they instill in their children is enough to call out the little guys in white shirts. Maybe not this week, or the next.
Take smoking, what got this discussion going. Utah took how long to decide to ban smoking in clubs, there are state that ban smoking in parks, in your own homes and apartments and they are not dominated By LDS legislators.
There are plenty of issues with a dominant religion controlling the legislature, but smoking is not one of them. But then again does the church control the legislature or is the legislature dominated by members of the LDS church.
But part of the reason we live in utah is because of the climate. We have lived in many states and countries and Utah by far has been the best place we have ever lived for crime, schools and trusting our kids to be safe.
Nope not LDS, but their culture and morals they instill in their children is enough to call out the little guys in white shirts. Maybe not this week, or the next.
Well be thankful......they are already well over 3.50 a pack here in Oregon and over 5.00 in Washington State......the thing that kills me is the law they just passed here in Oregon that says your not allowed to smoke in a bar.....tittie or otherwise........where do they get this shit anyways.........No smoking in a bar........good god man!!
B.
B.
Thank you simplepleasures for that post. It was right along the lines I was going to post. At the time the US Constitution was written, there were several countries in the world where the dominant (State) religion held control. In these countries, you were more likely to be brought up on criminal charges in an Ecclesiastical court than a Civil court and the Ecclesiastical held far more sway than the civil. That is one of the primary things the framers of the Constitution had in mind to make sure did not and could not flourish in this country.
As for the tax issue, the state is already taxing our booze. And they are actually taxing it twice. Every bottle of alcohol that is brought into the state liquor store system is taxed per bottle, that tax is included in the price you are paying. Well recently I went to the liquor store to get some supplies for NYE, and wouldn't you know it I got charged sales tax on my purchase. Never before have I ever paid a sales tax in a state liquor store, and now I got charged $1.06 on a $14 bottle of hooch that's 7.5% tax on top of the "Sin" tax already imposed.
When the government wants to tax they will tax. and once a tax is in place it is all but impossible to have removed.
As for the tax issue, the state is already taxing our booze. And they are actually taxing it twice. Every bottle of alcohol that is brought into the state liquor store system is taxed per bottle, that tax is included in the price you are paying. Well recently I went to the liquor store to get some supplies for NYE, and wouldn't you know it I got charged sales tax on my purchase. Never before have I ever paid a sales tax in a state liquor store, and now I got charged $1.06 on a $14 bottle of hooch that's 7.5% tax on top of the "Sin" tax already imposed.
When the government wants to tax they will tax. and once a tax is in place it is all but impossible to have removed.
Additional Items that need to be TAXED-
Fuck Tax
BJ Tax
Sex Tax
Baby Tax <--Yeah! Tax the hell outta BABIES!
Sidewalk Tax
Parks Usuage Tax
Air Miles Tax
Airport Usage Tax
Miles Driven Tax
Swingers Tax
Hell, why stop there....just tax us at 100%, and rebate back what the government/church/whoever wants us to have.
Fuck it, don't give anything back, just keep it all!
Did ANYONE remember the founding fathers original cry? "F R E E D O M"
Go ahead, diss on me for being an AMERICAN! Remember the TEA TAX?
All you "better than thou", self absorbed airheads, move to ENGLAND!!!
We ALL already pay way more in taxes than we should have to, just so the government can give it all away...... in case you hadn't noticed, this shit really pisses me off.
Fuck Tax
BJ Tax
Sex Tax
Baby Tax <--Yeah! Tax the hell outta BABIES!
Sidewalk Tax
Parks Usuage Tax
Air Miles Tax
Airport Usage Tax
Miles Driven Tax
Swingers Tax
Hell, why stop there....just tax us at 100%, and rebate back what the government/church/whoever wants us to have.
Fuck it, don't give anything back, just keep it all!
Did ANYONE remember the founding fathers original cry? "F R E E D O M"
Go ahead, diss on me for being an AMERICAN! Remember the TEA TAX?
All you "better than thou", self absorbed airheads, move to ENGLAND!!!
We ALL already pay way more in taxes than we should have to, just so the government can give it all away...... in case you hadn't noticed, this shit really pisses me off.
There is a lot of interesting comments here and I would tend to agree with many of you concerning this topic. One thing that comes to mind however when I see those of us that are unhappy with political/economic situations and religion being intertwined with both is this:
HOW MANY OF YOU VOTED AND HOW MANY OF YOU STUDIED THE ISSUES AND CANDIDATES?
I think if more of us voiced our opinions by casting ballots, writing legislators and actually attend government meetings involving public comment, life may go in our favor from time to time. Just a thought.
HOW MANY OF YOU VOTED AND HOW MANY OF YOU STUDIED THE ISSUES AND CANDIDATES?
I think if more of us voiced our opinions by casting ballots, writing legislators and actually attend government meetings involving public comment, life may go in our favor from time to time. Just a thought.
Sit infront of an IRS building and flip them off. Maybe the goverment should give more taxes to school's so our children can have a better Education!!! The future depend's on them....
all this talk on a tax hike on the smokes makes me glad the wife and I both quit.
1 month and 5 days for the both of us
1 month and 5 days for the both of us
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh stop your fucking whinning, you guys pay alot less for smokes then alot of other places. As far as i see the original post had nothing to do with Mormans all he said was if your going to raise the taxes on smokers for the polution it causes then you shud on all the cars that go TO CHURCH. He did not say LSD oppss sorry LDS people only......... he meant all church goers. Now back to the smoking......... all you non smokers all want us to quit however have you actually used your brains to figure out that if everyone quits where are you going to recoup that tax money? Let me give you an example.............. 12 years ago in Ontario Canada, a province at the time that you got FREE HEALTH CARE for all people who were residents. They decided to raise taxes on cigs so black marketing from neighbouring provinces started.......... so they took all the taxes off cigs In 1 year they lost 4 billion WITH A B in tax funding......... From that health care funding was cut 50% cause they didnt have the tax dollars to fund it anymore and now health care in ontario cost a monthly payment to off set the costs You loose the cig tax money what are they going to tax then to make up for it...... AIR and last time i checked smoking was still legal unlike smoking pot that for some strange reason alot of NON SMOKERS WILL DO POT but treat us like low lifes. In case you havent figured it out I am a smoker and i have seen fat people put more of a strain of the healt care system...... high blood presure, trouble with the heart, high cholesteral having to use a motorized cart in some cases that all costs money................ so all you non smokers rejoice when there are no more smokers cuz after the taxes you will pay on everything else to make up for it you wont be able to afford food
I, too, believe that the movement toward the eradication of smoking is an example of
WTF of course this is another step to control smoking. many smokers will do what gamblers do go out of state. Idaho is the home of "utah's lottery". Idaho uses gambling taxes to pay for education I am tired of Utah's citizens paying for Idaho's kids to get a better education.
LUCKYANDBUTCH,
It doesn't matter whether you <i>buy it</i> or not. It happens. Not just in Utah either. I've lived in the south and had to observe blue laws. The truth is a good majority of Utah legislators are Mormon and they push laws, whether unconstitutional or not, that are from the church's agenda. If you choose to be ignorant of that fact, that's cool. I take notice and speak out, because it's bullshit. Will my protests be heard in a sea of mormons? Probably not. However, I am not one to get my freedom ass-raped with a smile.
DC010181,
I am mixed on the smoking issue. I don't have an issue with people smoking. So long as they don't affect me with their smoke. If a private establishment wants avoid health standards, then should it be their choice to allow smoking? What about washing their dishes, expired food, roaches etc. After all it's there place.
-D-
It doesn't matter whether you <i>buy it</i> or not. It happens. Not just in Utah either. I've lived in the south and had to observe blue laws. The truth is a good majority of Utah legislators are Mormon and they push laws, whether unconstitutional or not, that are from the church's agenda. If you choose to be ignorant of that fact, that's cool. I take notice and speak out, because it's bullshit. Will my protests be heard in a sea of mormons? Probably not. However, I am not one to get my freedom ass-raped with a smile.
DC010181,
I am mixed on the smoking issue. I don't have an issue with people smoking. So long as they don't affect me with their smoke. If a private establishment wants avoid health standards, then should it be their choice to allow smoking? What about washing their dishes, expired food, roaches etc. After all it's there place.
-D-
We live in southeastern Ohio, Voters approved the indoor smoking ban here in November 2006, making Ohio the first Midwestern state and the first tobacco-growing state to enact it. there is atleast 15 other states that are already smoke free.... maybe more by now.
I think it sucks myself, but at the same time I respect people who don't smoke, or don't want to be around it. Just sucks if you smoke & have to leave a bar or even a private club here to have a smoke..., then, you can't be within so many feet of a public building or business..
Some of the local business owners say they have lost between 70 to 75 % of there business.. Do you think this is true???
what's next?? Fireplaces?, campfires? wood burners?
Just a thought
I think it sucks myself, but at the same time I respect people who don't smoke, or don't want to be around it. Just sucks if you smoke & have to leave a bar or even a private club here to have a smoke..., then, you can't be within so many feet of a public building or business..
Some of the local business owners say they have lost between 70 to 75 % of there business.. Do you think this is true???
what's next?? Fireplaces?, campfires? wood burners?
Just a thought
"Some of the local business owners say they have lost between 70 to 75 % of there business.. Do you think this is true??? "
<hr>
Some probably have. Some. That some could be .001% I doubt a significant number of them have. Think about it... Are the majority of smokers going to quit drinking in public establishments because they can't smoke? NO! They'll take their asses out in the cold and smoke. I know I did, when I smoked.
-D-
<hr>
Some probably have. Some. That some could be .001% I doubt a significant number of them have. Think about it... Are the majority of smokers going to quit drinking in public establishments because they can't smoke? NO! They'll take their asses out in the cold and smoke. I know I did, when I smoked.
-D-
Are the majority of smokers going to quit drinking in public establishments because they can't smoke? NO! They'll take their asses out in the cold and smoke. I know I did, when I smoked.
Yeah, your right, that's why were moving south, to damn cold to smoke outside here hehe!!!
Donna
Yeah, your right, that's why were moving south, to damn cold to smoke outside here
hehe!!!Donna
tequilarose, sorry for the confusion! i dont think this isuue should be about the mormon church at all. that is way overrated anyhow. my complaint is that the state is wanting to tax the hell out of smokes because of bugdtes shortfalls, etc,etc. i buy my smokes out of state anyhow because i live so close to the state line i could spit across it! lol but what i think they should do is like most states and allow a state lottery! use the millions and millions from that to spend on budget shortfalls, education, etc. utah spend less on education per child than the majority of the u.s. so mu complaint isnt about mormons or smokers, i feel the state is not utilizing all of its resources! and yes, the reason might be that the majority of state legislature is mormon but who am i to say! it was just a thought on my part! lol
I AGREE!! You're talking to an Oregonian! Get lotter tickets and video poker/slot machines in all the bars. I think they should allow casinos here as well. The Natives should get them here. Not much Utah can do about what Natives do on their reservations. I also think they should allow on-premise clubs.
Donna,
I wanna do that and I don't smoke. haha.
-D-
Donna,
I wanna do that and I don't smoke. haha.
-D-
"Only people who are supposed to have a brain and be able to wipe their own butts and think for themselves are allowed in"...
<hr>
Many believe that someone that purposefully inhales a carcinogenic smoke for no apparent reason, but to appease an addiction that has no positive affects what-so-ever, other than to delay the next withdrawl... are not among the "thinking, allowed in" group. haha.
Again, I don't care if a private establishment wants to allow it either. I just think if you're gonna turn your eye and not care about smoke... DON'T BITCH ABOUT DRIED OLD FOOD ON YOUR DISH!
-D-
<hr>
Many believe that someone that purposefully inhales a carcinogenic smoke for no apparent reason, but to appease an addiction that has no positive affects what-so-ever, other than to delay the next withdrawl... are not among the "thinking, allowed in" group. haha.
Again, I don't care if a private establishment wants to allow it either. I just think if you're gonna turn your eye and not care about smoke... DON'T BITCH ABOUT DRIED OLD FOOD ON YOUR DISH!
-D-
Riderz - I think the fiddle player was smoking something more than cigarettes! 
It looks like other "NON-MORMON" states have beat the MORMONS
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/cigarett.html
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/cigarett.html
Must be a lot of MORMONS in states like New York. According to this pdf. other states have utah beat hands down when it comes to taxing human incinerators.
http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0097.pdf
http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0097.pdf
Nah better examples would be the 3.2% beer or how about the ridiculous club memberships. How about everything grinding to a fucking halt on sunday. How about laws requiring the covering alcohol bottles in some cities. How about LDS seminary buildings directly adjacent to most of the public high schools. How about the lack of lottery, Casinos or the legal age for tobacco products being 19. Let's not forget about public schools trying to prevent gay and lesbian support groups. Thanks to the ACLU, the church's influence regarding the latter, is being stripped from public schools. Shall I go on?
TR, you,re just a bitter person, not clinging to guns or religion.
bitter why? Because I don't want someone unconstitutionally shoving their dogma down my throat through legislation? I have no issue with guns to protect your family. I just don't agree with some people's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. That's all..
Do me a favor and make your wife wear a burkha because I am offended by her face in public.. To me and my belief, her bare face in public, is as indecent as nudity is to our current society... We'll see if you're ok with me trying to force my views on you. We'll see how <i>bitter</i> you become when I make it law.
Do me a favor and make your wife wear a burkha because I am offended by her face in public.. To me and my belief, her bare face in public, is as indecent as nudity is to our current society... We'll see if you're ok with me trying to force my views on you. We'll see how <i>bitter</i> you become when I make it law.
USTOGETHER1975,
I think the real problem is that smokers creat more health problems for themselves and others then driveing to church does. In Publo, CO where there is an indoor smaoking band and 2 near by cities where there is not. The heart attack rate went down by 46%, this was smokers and nonsmokers. The result of second hand smoke is higher then most would admit. As a nonsmoker and one that lives in a state that has a smokeing band indoors at all business's I am happy that I do not have to put up with second hand smoke. I also think that smokers should pay their own way for health problems realted to smoking. Sorry if you disagree with me. My feelings. Thanks
I think the real problem is that smokers creat more health problems for themselves and others then driveing to church does. In Publo, CO where there is an indoor smaoking band and 2 near by cities where there is not. The heart attack rate went down by 46%, this was smokers and nonsmokers. The result of second hand smoke is higher then most would admit. As a nonsmoker and one that lives in a state that has a smokeing band indoors at all business's I am happy that I do not have to put up with second hand smoke. I also think that smokers should pay their own way for health problems realted to smoking. Sorry if you disagree with me. My feelings. Thanks
Actually I disagree with the statement about smokers creating more problems for themselves than the so-called church-goers.
As a whole, smoking has brought me MUCH more fulfillment and fewer worries than attending church regularly ever did.
Period.
No doubt smoking is unhealthy, but remember that obesity (and all it's related issues) in this country cost the taxpayers and burdens the healthcare system much more than smoking does (even smoking and alcohol-related issues combined).
Watch out you fat people (yes, even you pious ones that frown and turn your collective noses up at the horrible, nasty, heathen-smokers)...once cigarettes and the human-incinerators that indulge in them have been abolished from society....you're next.
You will be the next demographic slice of our fine national community that will fall under increasing scrutiny and pressure to live healthier and be more cost-effective for our national healthcare crisis.
Just a thought....
As a whole, smoking has brought me MUCH more fulfillment and fewer worries than attending church regularly ever did.
Period.
No doubt smoking is unhealthy, but remember that obesity (and all it's related issues) in this country cost the taxpayers and burdens the healthcare system much more than smoking does (even smoking and alcohol-related issues combined).
Watch out you fat people (yes, even you pious ones that frown and turn your collective noses up at the horrible, nasty, heathen-smokers)...once cigarettes and the human-incinerators that indulge in them have been abolished from society....you're next.
You will be the next demographic slice of our fine national community that will fall under increasing scrutiny and pressure to live healthier and be more cost-effective for our national healthcare crisis.
Just a thought....
Nice point J
On the same token if I have to endure the smoke in a restaurant I choose to be in, I should be able to spit in anyone's plate I want. After all I gotta breath smoke in public I don't want to.. You can taste my spit. I am all for freedom too. So let's, if we don't want micromanagement, throw out all the rules. Anarchy is the answer. haha.
I think if a bar wants to allow smoking.. let em. There are plenty of places that don't allow it anyway. If bars want to cater to smokers let em. The best way to beat them if you want healthy bars is to boycott the ones that allow it. The bar owners will suffer the loss of the non-smoking crowd the same way. That's the answer. If someone is foolish enough to smoke, let them... Natural selection at it's finest. I say give em all Darwin Awards and go about your day.
-D-
I am all for freedom too. So let's, if we don't want micromanagement, throw out all the rules. Anarchy is the answer. haha. I think if a bar wants to allow smoking.. let em. There are plenty of places that don't allow it anyway. If bars want to cater to smokers let em. The best way to beat them if you want healthy bars is to boycott the ones that allow it. The bar owners will suffer the loss of the non-smoking crowd the same way. That's the answer.
If someone is foolish enough to smoke, let them... Natural selection at it's finest. I say give em all Darwin Awards and go about your day. -D-
As a smoker of forty years, I have been around long enough to feel a bit peevish about the whole thing.
When I started smoking, (late 60
When I started smoking, (late 60
I am amazed that i actually agreed with TEQUILAROSE on something. Proud day.....
We have not found any redeeming value in the bars that do offer smoking. Guess thats why we have been faithful Habits fans.
I'm critical when i disagree, felt obligated to comment when I finally did agree....
As for others, i think the facts don't help much. Most just hate Mormons. reason out the window.
Hope everyone is getting all the sex they want... It has indeed been good at the Simple household...
We have not found any redeeming value in the bars that do offer smoking. Guess thats why we have been faithful Habits fans.
I'm critical when i disagree, felt obligated to comment when I finally did agree....
As for others, i think the facts don't help much. Most just hate Mormons. reason out the window.
Hope everyone is getting all the sex they want... It has indeed been good at the Simple household...
The MAIN FACT here though is GOVERNMENT-- The Constitution keeps refering to FREEDOM. Where's the FREEDOM in our current government? It is a FACT that the USA has more laws than the ENTIRE REST OF THE WORLD put together. I think that attornies and legislatures should be put to death in public gallows! LAWYERS are public enemy #1. Think about all the frivilous law suits that are brought on by them. Think of all the really guilty criminals walking the streets because of them. Does this sound ridiculous? Think about it.
What good do they REALLY do, except to self serve? How many people in the legislative branch of the government are not lawyers? They perpetuate their own businesses at all of our expense, and we actually pay them to screw us, both in pulic office and private business.
Go to the library sometime (or online), and look at just the criminal laws from 75 years ago, and then go look at them now. Go look at the laws our ORIGINAL forefathers brought to bear when they gave up everything to establish this great country, and compare that then to the mess we have currently have.
Despite who the president is, despite who the ruling party in Congress is, the Constitution is what governs and dictates this land, not the people who supposedly serve us in public held elected or appointed positions.
Take a look at many of the police departments (for the record, I used to be a cop), look at how the LAW ABIDING public is treated in many cases. Many officers forget that they do in fact actually work for US-- WE THE PEOPLE.
We are supposed to be a FREE society. Free to make up our own minds. Free to be responsible adults. Free to think for ourselves, and make our own decsions within overall guidelines that we call laws. In our modern day society the laws have so bogged down the legal system that even the people who made all of these laws can no longer interpret them. No one on earth can comprehend all of them, and I'm quite sure that if Jesus Christ himself came back to earth and landed in the U.S.A., he would be arrested for a whole host of infractions to our laws. (in fact, how many people who have claimed to be him have been arrested?) How do we know if the real J.C. isn't locked up somewhere? I'll leave it to you to discuss if it's a good thing or not that he is arrested.
YES we do have to have laws. Reasonable laws, Laws set forth by the people, not a bunch of self serving crooks. Look at how all the corporate CEO's and Presidents have virtually been let go after STEALING peoples life long legally earned life savings. Where's the outrage about this?
Instead of dwelling on the laws that says whet we can't do, think about the few things that we CAN do that government isn't somehow involved in. Really--- think about it. What can you legally do, that isn't governed in some way.......
You can't even pee, a basic bodily function that you MUST do in order to live without the government being involved in it. :v
What good do they REALLY do, except to self serve? How many people in the legislative branch of the government are not lawyers? They perpetuate their own businesses at all of our expense, and we actually pay them to screw us, both in pulic office and private business.
Go to the library sometime (or online), and look at just the criminal laws from 75 years ago, and then go look at them now. Go look at the laws our ORIGINAL forefathers brought to bear when they gave up everything to establish this great country, and compare that then to the mess we have currently have.
Despite who the president is, despite who the ruling party in Congress is, the Constitution is what governs and dictates this land, not the people who supposedly serve us in public held elected or appointed positions.
Take a look at many of the police departments (for the record, I used to be a cop), look at how the LAW ABIDING public is treated in many cases. Many officers forget that they do in fact actually work for US-- WE THE PEOPLE.
We are supposed to be a FREE society. Free to make up our own minds. Free to be responsible adults. Free to think for ourselves, and make our own decsions within overall guidelines that we call laws. In our modern day society the laws have so bogged down the legal system that even the people who made all of these laws can no longer interpret them. No one on earth can comprehend all of them, and I'm quite sure that if Jesus Christ himself came back to earth and landed in the U.S.A., he would be arrested for a whole host of infractions to our laws. (in fact, how many people who have claimed to be him have been arrested?) How do we know if the real J.C. isn't locked up somewhere? I'll leave it to you to discuss if it's a good thing or not that he is arrested.
YES we do have to have laws. Reasonable laws, Laws set forth by the people, not a bunch of self serving crooks. Look at how all the corporate CEO's and Presidents have virtually been let go after STEALING peoples life long legally earned life savings. Where's the outrage about this?
Instead of dwelling on the laws that says whet we can't do, think about the few things that we CAN do that government isn't somehow involved in. Really--- think about it. What can you legally do, that isn't governed in some way.......
You can't even pee, a basic bodily function that you MUST do in order to live without the government being involved in it. :v
photogs - I agree with just about everything you've written. Pretty much sounds like we're fucked, huh?
I do have a question though. If J.C. were locked up somewhere, shouldn't he be able to twitch his nose or something for escape purposes?
I would like to place special interests/lobbyists in the same sinking ship with the lawyers.
I do have a question though. If J.C. were locked up somewhere, shouldn't he be able to twitch his nose or something for escape purposes?
I would like to place special interests/lobbyists in the same sinking ship with the lawyers.
BOBUTAH,
When religion tries to tell you who to marry, what you can do based on your color, sexuality or what kinda alcohol you can buy etc... it's a little more than pissing in the street. I have also served, I have a wife and a son serving.. Not that, that even fuckin matters anyway. Being American gives us those rights. You serve to ensure the rights not to lord your fuckin service over those that don't... There's no honor in that.
I think we're all preaching to the choir. Religion has nothing to do with the smoking law. It's happening all over the damn country. I do understand why people have a hard-on against religion.. It's a catalysts to most of the atrocities in history. Quit frankly, I think the world would be better off without that nonsense. Since we are free to do it... people will.. So hey who am I to make that choice for others.. I'll just baseball bat the fucking skull of anyone that tries to fuckin push their fuckin nonsensical drivel on me through legistlation. That's all I am saying... I want no part of that cult fuckin poison... But hey if you want it... GO AHEAD! haha.
-D-
When religion tries to tell you who to marry, what you can do based on your color, sexuality or what kinda alcohol you can buy etc... it's a little more than pissing in the street. I have also served, I have a wife and a son serving.. Not that, that even fuckin matters anyway. Being American gives us those rights. You serve to ensure the rights not to lord your fuckin service over those that don't... There's no honor in that.
I think we're all preaching to the choir. Religion has nothing to do with the smoking law. It's happening all over the damn country. I do understand why people have a hard-on against religion.. It's a catalysts to most of the atrocities in history. Quit frankly, I think the world would be better off without that nonsense. Since we are free to do it... people will.. So hey who am I to make that choice for others.. I'll just baseball bat the fucking skull of anyone that tries to fuckin push their fuckin nonsensical drivel on me through legistlation. That's all I am saying... I want no part of that cult fuckin poison... But hey if you want it... GO AHEAD! haha.
-D-
"Ameri'k'a"...haha...that's good....
Indep - Great Post! (if only his name weren't Smedley)