Swingers Forum - Automotive Industry Bailout

What do you think?

This is why I buy Jap or German. Americans no longer make quality cars.

-D-

All the capitalist don't want to give any "hand-outs" to the working joe, unless it's their hand that's out. FUCK EM!

I have a business or two, can I fail and get money???? Sweet I am going skiing, fuck it Obama will help me.

Sandy wrote:

"I have a business or two, can I fail and get money???? Sweet I am going skiing, fuck it Obama will help me. "

<hr>

Haha sorry can't blame Obama for bush's baby. Well you can obviously try.



Drew,

It has everything to do with capitalism. They cut corners to the point that their vehicles got a well deserved reputation for being the shit boxes they are and intelligent people started buying imports and now these fucking taterheads got their hands out. Uegulated capitalism at it's finest. I say we buy into the companies and devote the return to education and healthcare. Nationalize these investments to help pay for education, healthcare and any other thing that would give us a tax break.

-D-

GM CEO states that 80% of consumers would not buy a vehicle from a Company that has gone bankrupt. I disagree with tis notion.


How about you?

Didnt Chrysler go bankrupt in the early 70s and Amtrak is still afloat. Man the Unions are really strong. Man I cant imagine it at all. Our solid history has been baught and sold by labor. The hidden Socialism.


We taught the world to fly. Now #4 in aircraft Manufacturing.
Harnessed Steel and made it a viable product and yet we are now #6 in the world.
We invented the telephone and the cell phone yet none are made here.
We invented the auto industry and invented the mass production concept and yet our factories close.
We harnessed Nuclear power and made it safe and affordable yet we fear it. and are # 3 in its use.
The list goes on.
America has been baught and sold so many times we are bankrupt. You cannot sell what Americans cant afford. Labor has a lot to do with it.

You're mostly missing the whole point of the situation:

The US car is NOT crappy any longer, it is not the standard any longer. Why do you think you hear, 'It is as good as a Camry! It gets as good of milage as a Camry!' etc?

The problem we face in this country is that the Japanese AND Korean governments BOTH subsidize the automobile industry. They pay the profit when they sell the cars here at a lose.

Add to this, the Toyota, Nissan, and other factories here do not operate in heavily unionized states, they are in 'Right to Work' states. The people in those states wanted jobs, not a Masters' degree wage for a high school drop out.

Add to this the idea that $6K of EVERY GM sold goes to people who USED to work there.

Finally, the simple fact is, there's no profit in a smaller car, that is what is selling, this adds to the problems.

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Nov 18, 2008 - 7:50 pm
All the capitalist don't want to give any "hand-outs" to the working joe, unless it's their hand that's out. FUCK EM!


*********************

The average joe isn't going to see an extra dime from the auto industry, the 25 Billion would go to the corporations, not the workers.

I see your still against the bail out in this post.

Posted By: SURFRIDER619 Reply posted on:
Nov 19, 2008 - 8:37 pm
So, tell me why is it that all the Republicans are against the Loan to the Auto Industry and all the Democrats are for it?

Are the Republicans, for the health of Wall Street and not Main Street?

Why do the Republicans always blame the hard-working union member, instead of the bad management plan by the Executives? I mean, do the Unions sit in at the Corporate meeting?

So, can the Republicans answer those questions?

Surf, Out . . .

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I m not blaming the hard working blue collar "union" worker in the Auto industry. I have repeatadly stated throughout this this thread as well as other, how long will we continue to bail out organizations and industries for poor management and iresponsable fiscal responsability on their part. Where does it end?

The current 25 Billion dollar loan would result in an initial payment of 20% in Preferred Stock from the "Big 3". The rest would be in cash over several years. Can you honestly tell me that you would be willing to use your cash to purchase stock in any of these companies?

You say all the democrats are for it, may I suggest that you review the New York Times articles after todays hearings. There is a good liberal news source for you. They are stating that Dems are against it.

Can you answer my questions?

AKLIM,

Sorry, not buying it. That's what happens when you hire cheap labor, out source parts to other countries and buy cheap shit parts. The book value of the car drops. American cars do not hold their value, because there is no regulation on quality. The build shit, they deserve to flop. FUCK EM! All of that is unregulated capitalism at it's finest.

-D-

I never said I <i>was</i> for the bailout. I think the bailout is bullshit. I think it should be an investment. Since we are <i>"bailing them out"</i> anyway, the money we put into these companies should be buying us (we the people) stock. Partial nationalization!! I think the return should offset taxes and be used for education, healthcare or some other worthwhile endeavor like repaying us our fucking social security. There is no the people as a whole should not be investing in the world market. It sure would take a bite out of taxes.

-D-

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Nov 19, 2008 - 10:19 pm
AKLIM,

Sorry, not buying it. That's what happens when you hire cheap labor, out source parts to other countries and buy cheap shit parts. The book value of the car drops.

American cars do not hold their value, because there is no regulation on quality.

The build shit, they deserve to flop. FUCK EM!

All of that is unregulated capitalism at it's finest.

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So you are telling me that the fact it costs more to build the SAME car because it is built in a GM factory vs a Jap factory across the road is not an issue?

Why should there be regulation on build quality? What else do you want regulated? How often someone goes to the can?

On that we can agree.

You seem to keep saying that. Why I am not sure. Why are you still here and not in your communist paradise? Oh, that's right. It doesn't exist. What is the status of the birthplace of communism? Has it worked there? Nope. What about the other places that have adopted it? China, Vietnam? Why aren't you moving there? Oh, never mind. They are becoming more and more capitalistic. Bottom line, if communism was so wonderful and capitalism is so bad, why are they moving more and more towards it? Why do you want to move to what they are leaving behind? Or do you have a fantasy that your version will really work? I'm sure Uncles Ho and Mao thought they had the right flavor down but we can see that it isn't working or the would not have abandoned communism and switched to capitalism.

Posted By: SURFRIDER619 Reply posted on:
Nov 20, 2008 - 5:58 am

To the Republicans, don

Here is an interesting video I found on a Ford factory in Brazil.

http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

AKLIM,


That's how a retirement plans works. Government agencies do it all the time. The worker pays so much in and the employer pays so much in. GM didn't pay their people anymore than anyone else. In fact they had layoffs of Americans and Honda hired them. The big issue came when people started buying more reliable and fuel efficient cars after Bush's sky rocketing gas prices. People wanted cars that could go 300-500 thousand miles and get 30+ MPG. That's what hurt GM. They cut costs, underpaid their people and sold their ass to other countries and now they want a handout.

-D-

P.S.

All the autmotive companies have similar to better employee benefits than GM. None of them are tanking.

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Nov 20, 2008 - 11:19 pm
That's how a retirement plans works. Government agencies do it all the time. The worker pays so much in and the employer pays so much in.

GM didn't pay their people anymore than anyone else. In fact they had layoffs of Americans and Honda hired them. The big issue came when people started buying more reliable and fuel efficient cars after Bush's sky rocketing gas prices. People wanted cars that could go 300-500 thousand miles and get 30+ MPG. That's what hurt GM. They cut costs, underpaid their people and sold their ass to other countries and now they want a handout.


All the autmotive companies have similar to better employee benefits than GM. None of them are tanking.
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A couple of major differences. GM has to balance the budget, the govt does not. When GM runs in the red, bad things happen. Their stock value tanks, lending freezes, etc, etc. When the govt runs in the red, they borrow from Peter to pay Paul, play a few accounting games, etc, etc.

How do you say that they underpaid their employees and yet tell me that they are paid similar? Which is it? Sorry about Bush's gas prices though. I didn't know he could do that but hey, we can fantasize. So how do you figure that the reports tell us that it costs about $2000 more to build the SAME car in GM factory vs a foreign factory?

Herer I will post it again. Incase you missed it.





I Dont blame the laborer, cant. But I do blame the leadership of the organization. They hold not only the company but their membership hostage. Misuse funds and pension fund that could be at task for earnings by the membership. A hold on contracts and a reduction in benifits and making the union take some of the burden to care for their membership. The pension funds that are held and being used by corrupt union bosses has contributed to this mess. Paying someone $27.00 an hour to put tires on a new car not to mention benefits is a bit much. It costs their competiters 1/3 of what it costs them to build a car for christs sake. This is a continuating trend that started many years ago. 10 years contracts would also help, these 2-3 years contract are nuts and are showing the greed of the unions and their workers deserve better from the Unions, after all they do indeed get a too fair deal from the companies.

Posted By: SURFRIDER619 Reply posted on:
Nov 21, 2008 - 7:41 am

Like I said,

A couple of major differences. GM has to balance the budget, the govt does not. When GM runs in the red, bad things happen. Their stock value tanks, lending freezes, etc, etc. When the govt runs in the red, they borrow from Peter to pay Paul, play a few accounting games, etc, etc.

How do you say that they underpaid their employees and yet tell me that they are paid similar? Which is it? Sorry about Bush's gas prices though. I didn't know he could do that but hey, we can fantasize. So how do you figure that the reports tell us that it costs about $2000 more to build the SAME car in GM factory vs a foreign factory?

<hr>

Uh yeah, they pay the same as all the other American companies that are suffering. Japanese companies treat their workers even better with better benefits and don't have these issues. Get it now? Talk to Toyota that laid their workers of <b>WITH FULL PAY</b> when production was down.

http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/25/71/62.php
http://blogs.automotive.com/6288567/miscellaneous/toyota-bites-one-billion-dollar-bullet-instead-of-layoffs/index.html

It was just on the news lastnight!!!! They take care of the worker first. That's how the Japanese roll! That's why they kick our asses. They do business ethically. People like you are the reason GM is failing. You think you should be the only one to reap the benefit. You say we rob "Peter to pay Paul" , as though it doesn't affect us. Our dollar is in the toilet because of it!!!!


-D-

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Nov 21, 2008 - 2:09 pm
Uh yeah, they pay the same as all the other American companies that are suffering. Japanese companies treat their workers even better with better benefits and don't have these issues. Get it now? Talk to Toyota that laid their workers of WITH FULL PAY when production was down.

It was just on the news lastnight!!!! They take care of the worker first. That's how the Japanese roll! That's why they kick our asses. They do business ethically. People like you are the reason GM is failing. You think you should be the only one to reap the benefit.

You say we rob "Peter to pay Paul" , as though it doesn't affect us. Our dollar is in the toilet because of it!!!!
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All that about Toyota is facinating. What you haven't told me is how a car built in the USA can cost $3000 more because it is built in a GM factory instead of a Toyota factory and yet the GM worker is paid less. Explain to me how we are paying thousands for an employee that is no longer there. Sorry, labeling it "retirement" doesn't cut it. That is part of the compensation package.

Those workers I have seen are valuable. My cousin works for Toyota. I have met them. They are motivated and work hard. The GM employees I have met are NOT valuable.

Guess you didn't comprehend what I was saying so let me explain it again. I was saying that the govt robs Peter to pay Paul. You were talking about nationalizing industries. Fine. Tell me who will you want controlling it? The same people that "Rob Peter to pay Paul" with their accounting tricks? Is that someone you think can handle more responsibility when they can't even take care of their house.

Surf sez.......

You stated,

surf yes the union does sit in on the corporate board, at least at Chysler they do/did. I worked for Chrysler in the seventies through the bullshit gas scare. The japs came in with their little cars and people bought them for the economy. But now all those little cars have gotten bigger. As far as wages I was making over $5.00 an hour in 1974 or was it 1973 I don't remember it was too long ago. Hard to get great quality when people come to work drunk and the unions save their jobs.

Drew good video, if only they could get past the unions.

Well let's see as far as unions go they get better wages, hum. I now work for Walmart at a distribution center. There has never been a union and the wages are the highest in the area with good benefits. Even more than I was making driving a concrete truck for Rinkers. Oh and there was a union at Rinkers. I don't think you will find a more greedy company than Walmart.

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Nov 21, 2008 - 11:33 pm
I already told you that. UNREGULATED CAPITALISM!!!!

GM is greedy. A toyota costs a little more to buy for the consumer, it's built better and holds it's book better than a GM equivalent. Because GM sold it's ass and didn't stand behind their workers among other things, not to mention then cut corners and sold shit boxes for nearly 3 decades. That's what happens when you line your own pockets and don't take care of the worker and your consumer.

but retirement for CEO's down to lineworkers for 20-30 years at a time can get really expensive.

Those workers I have seen are valuable. My cousin works for Toyota. I have met them. They are motivated and work hard. The GM employees I have met are NOT valuable.

Never met of any of them. I think you get what you pay for. If you treat your people well, they will treat you well.

I comprehended you just fine. I trust my ability to vote on legislation more than I do a company that couldn't get it right the first time. At least I have some say with my vote. NEXT!

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Show me an example of "Unregulated Capitalism" because I have seen no such thing. AFAIK, Unregulated mean not regulated. Besides the Black Market selling drugs, stolen goods, etc, etc, is GM regulated? I think so. Ford? More than likely. How do you keep saying that we have unregulated capitalism? Or do you mean it is unregulated because you don't like it that the don't follow Marx and Engels ideas?

How does that explain that it costs more because it is on one side of the road as opposed to building it in a plant on the other side of the road?

Tell me, how many CEOs do they have vs employees over say a 20 or 30 year period? Which category has drawn more money? Do CEOs have retirement benefits that continue up to death? Please show me where you are drawing your facts because I am unsure.

You hope. It is not a guarantee. Try not to make it sound as such.

Do you vote on legislation? I thought Congress does that? Why don't we look at what Congress has achieved over the last couple of decades and tell me that they can be trusted with more responsibility.

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Nov 23, 2008 - 8:17 pm
'Highest in your area' maybe correct. Oh and I know for a fact that Costco pays it's people better than Walmart and it's Union. You must have no Costco's in your area.

That's the difference between union and non-union companies. I might also add that, in my experience, walmart and not costco, has a tendency to hire way more poor english speakers; another unfortunate thing that happens with unregulated capitalism.

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Maybe it could afford a few more stores and they would be in his neck of the woods if they weren't obliged to pay more for possibly less. If you are good enough, you can take your act elsewhere where you will make more money. Unions are for the mediocre.

You mean capitalism that disagrees with you, Marx and Engels. How is Wal*Mart unregulated capitalism? Are you saying they follow no regulations? How so?

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Nov 24, 2008 - 1:16 am
If something that a business is doing is not regulated, it's unregulated. It's like fuel prices are unregulated capitalism. Is the industry regulated? in somethings... However, they can charge as much as they want.

As far as firing union members.... I am all for a union grievances. It prevents the employer from firing people for unfair, unjust or discriminatory reasons. There is nothing with asking the employer to document and show that the employee was fucking up. It prevents poor labor practices. I take it you don't have employees.

I think if you are accused of something you should have the right to be heard. You are saying they were fired for it, but that doesn't mean they did it. Asking the employer to prove something is perfectly fair and we should encourage the, "innocent until proven guilty". So you don't get sympathy from me, if you support that. How would you like to be accused of something you didn't do and be fired because of it and then have it haunt you for the rest of your life??? Don't even try to argue that you would want that and yes it could happen to you.

Let me put this more simply for you. If the gov't regulates the wages you pay, the taxes you pay, the workman's comp coverage etc, but doesn't regulate the health or safety standards of your company, then they are unregulated in that aspect. When I say unregulated capitalism, I mean that there is no regulations in place to prevent these fucking idiots from over-charging, underpaying, selling shit in a box etc. Many things that should be against the law because of sheer ethics are not.

We spend millions and millions on trying to prevent Mexicans from coming here illegally, because UNREGULATED CAPITALIST PIGS, hire them with no fear, but that of a slap on the wrist. So we are paying to prevent something that would be prevented if we would just fine these companies 10 times what it would cost them to hire a legal worker. If there are no jobs available, they won't cross the borders. You get it now? putting a bandaid on a dam isn't regulating. You can't blame them for coming here when people like you dangle a carrot in front of them.

Unions are to prevent people like you from taking unfair advantage of people. Unions are for the streetwise people that want to protect themselves from double dealing cheap assholes that would fuck their people to save a buck.

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So basically, your gripe is that not everything is being regulated? Where does it end? Before or after they regulate how many times I go to the bathroom and for what purposes? Sounds like you want everything regulated.

So do the courts if you really have a case. And you do take it wrong. I do have employees. Just that none of them are union.

Will a confession work? The guy did confess to doing it when asked. In spite of that, the union rep fought for his reinstatement. In fact, the rep mentioned that while his guy was guilty, surely there must be some sort of leniency they can extend him. My wife broke up a couple of fights before. They tried to tell her that she couldn't fire them without going thru the union. Very simple. She told them that they could either choose to work or clock out right there and then. There is an infant nurse who refuses to do IVs. Others had to do it for her. Should she be fine drawing pay for work others do for her?

When you say "unregulated capitalism", you are talking about capitalism as a whole being unregulated. Why don't you be specific and say exactly what should not be regulated since with you that would be a very short list. If you start using ethics as a basis for laws, whose ethics will you use? Yours? What if my ethics differ from yours? Can I use mine instead of yours?

Ah, but you see, what you are forgetting is that there is the issue of being PC that dominates everything else. All the companies are doing is exploiting that angle. Why not? The problem is not the companies. The problem is the lack of will. You could put up the Berlin Wall II and it wouldn't do much. That is why the border is a revolving door. I'm with you on that point as far as the illegals. Personally, I feel that the fine should be a half million per illegal found. 2nd time, jail time and liquidation of the company. Also, we need to deny those coming over of ANY rights or Anchor Baby privileges. However, get that thru the PC crowd that want results but don't want to be seen as a "Mexican Hating Racist". The problem is not the companies. The problem is the will of the people who want the problem stopped but don't want to get their hands dirty.

I never needed a union. Why? Because I knew I was good enough to do things on my own. I don't need a note from Mommy and Daddy to tell the teacher what to do with my absence. I know I am a quality employee. As such, I can take my act elsewhere and demand more. If you disagree with me, I can move on. That is the same attitude I take with my employees. If they feel they can get better, let me know. If I disagree, they can stay or part company. If they are wrong, they regret it. If I am wrong, I regret it. I don't know how else to tell you but the math is pretty simple. If the average employee gets paid $5 and you can do twice what the average guy does and you want more money but I refuse, you can take your act elsewhere and I will have to hire 2 employees to replace you costing me $10. Then there is the downtime and training, etc, etc. Even then, there is no guarantee that it works out with these 2 new guys. Therefore, it is simpler to pay you $10 and keep you here. Cheaper too, in the long run. Now, if I am stupid and decide not to pay you what you are worth, you can take your act elsewhere and it will be MY loss. How many good employees can I afford to lose? Of course, if you are a "dime a dozen", WGAS what you want or where you go? Plenty more to take your place.

Aklim wrote -

D - There seems to be an increasing shortage of that precious commodity!

Posted By: CHRKE2 Reply posted on:
Nov 25, 2008 - 6:27 am
You strike me as a fiercely proud, independent individual. That quote sort of summarizes you, in my opinion.

You seem to approach everything with an

Posted By: CHRKE2 Reply posted on:
Nov 25, 2008 - 4:34 pm
Aklim - Should a worker have enough conscience to make an effort not to contaminate the consumer product he works with? Should a business have enough conscience to not knowingly contaminate air and water by using dilution to meet discharge requirements, rather than go through the expense of ACTUALLY reducing the discharge of the pollutant?
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Not sure what you are getting at. In the case of the worker, it is illegal and in the case of the company, it falls under the "would be nice" to do but not illegal.

"Who ever said anyone has to be ethical? They have to be legal but ethical is up to you."

<hr>

HAHAHAHAHA!!! You shouldn't own a business if you don't know that many ethics <b>ARE</b> laws. Ask Martha Stewart.

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/m-rcbg/CSRI/publications/workingpaper_19_michael.pdf

Oh and CHREK, You are not going to talk Aklim into ethics. Unfortunately, exploitation of worker, slave wages and monopolies are ok by him. We should all be able to fuck over anyone we want. Fuck the community. So when I bust into his business and threaten him and extort him to jack part of his business, I should be ok. After all you don't want to regulate my hard efforts at extortion. In his world, we'd be able to do anything... No regulations. We might as well just take what we want. After all if I work hard enough at breaking into AKLIM'S business, I should be entitled to take what I can carry off. Let's not regulate anything.

-D-

P.S. I sure hope you aren't a land (slum) lord.

Why should they do work when they're not paid??? Your scenario doesn't hold water my friend. I am saying you should pay the people what the work is worth and you are saying they should work without pay. This just proves further that you are a cheapskate.

" if I had built up a monopoly, maybe it was because I was smart enough and worked hard enough to achieve it. If you aren't, how is that my fault? Should I be held back because you lack both he will and abilities"

Monopolies are illegal Einstein. They are both ethically wrong and illegal. It's not that I lack the will or the ability. It's that I have honor and integrity, whereas you do not. If I were a cheapskate and wanted to rip people of I would just bust your fucking head open and make your shit mine. I wouldn't waste my time exploiting my workers and and being a fucking cheapskate. I would just run you over with a truck and move into your house. The reality is, you don't make your money, you employees do. It's people like you that make unions necessary and I sleep better at night knowing that the teamsters are always sticking it to the cheapskates.




-D-

The flaw is, that there will always be people that are willing to work for way less, because 1) they are desperate for work. 2) They're promised a promotions after they work for set amounts of time and 3) corporations have set the standard for each industry!!! Get it!? So they can't just go somewhere else. McDonalds and Wendy's pay roughly the same, but does that make the industry's pay and benefits fair? NO!

Take for instance. There are many fast food workers that do twice the work of let's a cashier at a walmart, but get paid nearly half of the cashiers wage. Now, just because all the corporations decide they're gonna pay 5.25 per hour for a doesn't mean it a fair wage for the job. In fact, it's not a fair wage. You can't argue that they can all go somewhere else if they don't like it because 1) the same can be said of any unethical practice such as safety violations. I should be able to have an unsafe business as long as I tell people that I don't want to implement safety standards and if they don't like it, they should work somewhere else. Because of high demand and people desperate to make money and cheapskate fuckin capitalist pig employers, many jobs are unsafe and many get killed for chump change.
2) Someone will ALWAYS have to flip burgers because of the demand. To demand a fair wage for the industry is perfectly acceptable. 3) It wouldn't be a loss to you, if you can replace them with some person that is desperate for a job that you are exploiting. You can bet most people do leave when they find an ethical and fair employer.

Your logic promotes, inexperience in the job because of the high turn over, which in some in dustries can lead to public health, public safety and many other concerns. Again, your ideology is terribly flawed in that you want to use up resources, take as much as you want while give as little as possible all at the expense of others.. Sounds like a parasite. It doesn't work in nature and it's why this country and much of the world is becoming a shit hole.

-D-

You can talk about how much worked harder than everyone else all you fucking want dude, but I will tell you this right now. There are lumber mill workers right now that work 10 times harder than you and you wife will have ever fucking worked in your life and many will never make what a nurse does, but all of them are just as necessary to society. Without them, you wouldn't be living in your fucking house. So spare me you "hard work" bullshit. There are plenty that work harder than you and have earned more than you that get fucked by people like you. Spare us your self-righteous drivel. You are no more hard working than the next. The truth is, without unions, people like you would exploit children for slave labor.

It does go both ways!!! If you want people to perform, <b>PAY THEM WHAT THE JOB IS WORTH!!!!!!!!</b> That's how it goes both ways. You want to know what society gives you back??? How about educated youth, safer neighborhoods, cleaner neighborhoods, a healthier society that can continue to provide you the service you use daily. Without police, firefighters, gargbage truck drivers, farmers, loggers, etc. Your business and life wouldn't even work!!! Everything you do depends on everyone else!!!!

It all comes down to this. You shouldn't even be allowed to practice business and I can guarantee that if you were to spout any of this shit off in public where you live, you'd sink like a rock. Why don't you publish an article in your local paper about your views and see how fast you tank!!! You wouldn't and you know why??? Because you know you are wrong! That's the truth! HAHA! Try it... I dare you to do it. Be sure to post us a link. If you are so confident of your ethics... Go ahead. That's what I thought.

How about you quit acting like you are the only one who has ever worked mulitple jobs at odd hours and attended school or training. That has nothing to do with demanding fair pay for a job. NOTHING! If a person is busting their ass in a lumber mill pulling green chain all day, they shouldn't be making 7 dollar per hour. Yet, there are plenty non-union companies in the industry that pay that rate.


You are no more "hard working" than me or most of the people I know. There are plenty of people that die working hard and poor. I don't think you are even wealthy enough to be talking as though you are. You definitely don't give an impression of wealthiness in your photos. The truth is, you are an average middle class joe, like me. You just think people should be exploited, used and abuse... I don't.

-D-

P.S.

You naturalized in, didn't you?

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Nov 28, 2008 - 1:21 am
You can talk about how much worked harder than everyone else all you fucking want dude, but I will tell you this right now. There are lumber mill workers right now that work 10 times harder than you and you wife will have ever fucking worked in your life and many will never make what a nurse does, but all of them are just as necessary to society. Without them, you wouldn't be living in your fucking house. So spare me you "hard work" bullshit. There are plenty that work harder than you and have earned more than you that get fucked by people like you. Spare us your self-righteous drivel. You are no more hard working than the next.

The truth is, without unions, people like you would exploit children for slave labor.

It does go both ways!!! If you want people to perform, PAY THEM WHAT THE JOB IS WORTH!!!!!!!! That's how it goes both ways.

You want to know what society gives you back??? How about educated youth, safer neighborhoods, cleaner neighborhoods, a healthier society that can continue to provide you the service you use daily. Without police, firefighters, gargbage truck drivers, farmers, loggers, etc. Your business and life wouldn't even work!!! Everything you do depends on everyone else!!!!

It all comes down to this. You shouldn't even be allowed to practice business and I can guarantee that if you were to spout any of this shit off in public where you live, you'd sink like a rock. Why don't you publish an article in your local paper about your views and see how fast you tank!!! You wouldn't and you know why??? Because you know you are wrong! That's the truth! HAHA! Try it... I dare you to do it. Be sure to post us a link. If you are so confident of your ethics... Go ahead. That's what I thought.

How about you quit acting like you are the only one who has ever worked mulitple jobs at odd hours and attended school or training. That has nothing to do with demanding fair pay for a job. NOTHING! If a person is busting their ass in a lumber mill pulling green chain all day, they shouldn't be making 7 dollar per hour. Yet, there are plenty non-union companies in the industry that pay that rate.

You are no more "hard working" than me or most of the people I know.

There are plenty of people that die working hard and poor. I don't think you are even wealthy enough to be talking as though you are. You definitely don't give an impression of wealthiness in your photos. The truth is, you are an average middle class joe, like me.

You just think people should be exploited, used and abuse... I don't.
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Lets think back for a moment. When you talked of your honor and integrity holding you back from forming a monopoly, what did I say? I said it was because you lacked the will and ability and shot down your so called honor and integrity theory. My neighbor took 3 days to edge his yard and I took half a day. Why? Because I worked hard AND smart. I used the correct tools. He used a steak knife. Relevance? Like I said, you need to work hard and smart to get ahead. Hard work alone doesn't cut it. Smart work without much effort doesn't either. Did I say I worked harder than anyone? Nope. I know there are people who work harder than I do on a physical basis. Here is a little titbit of info for you. There are people that work smarter and harder than I do and get a lot further too.

Lets not forget the child labor laws. Even if unions died off today, that would still hold. Sorry, they are not the light in the dark area.

How do you determine that? Like I said, market value. Why should I pay them more than what the market pays? That is what they will do for me when I go apply for a job so why should anyone working for me be different?

With one truth missing. I PAID FOR IT. If they are doing it as a freebie, you would have a point. Otherwise, what is your point since I seem to be missing it. In the case of what you mentioned, I paid the community for the services rendered in the form of my taxes. They provided the service which I use to run my business. What else is there? I suppose you are going to tell me that I owe Best Buy something for giving me the TV I bought and PAID FOR next? Do try including all the facts before you post the argument next time. Like I have said before, if Wal*Mart sells a product cheaper than I can buy it, will the community boycott Wal*Mart and patronize me instead? If not, what do I owe them? They provided me services. True. I paid for them for it. What else do I owe them?

I don't follow. Are you trying to say that I have to be a lemming and follow the popular opinion? If it is not popular, change it to a popular one? Is that how YOU operate? If not, what is your point? The opinion I hold is the opinion I hold whether it is popular or not, whether you like it or not. Slavery was popular before. Does that make it the opinion one should hold? What about Hitler? He was so popular even a couple of Jews felt themselves being swept up by his points. I suppose that was the right idea too?

Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. Here it is in simple language. If you feel you are being underpaid and cannot get ahead in this field, move to a different field IF YOU CAN. Can it be done? Yes. Will it be difficult? Probably. Nothing worthwhile is given to you. My point is that we didn't bother to stamp our feet and scream and yell. We didn't like what we had so we took steps to change it. Can it be done? That is up to you and your abilities and will. If you can, good for you. If not, why is it anybody's problem but your own? I don't blame Warren B. for being richer than me. He worked harder and was smarter than I was. Good for him. I salute him. My point was that working harder and smarter is an way out of a bad situation.

Have I worked harder and smarter than many people? Yes. Have I worked harder and smarter than everyone else? No. Are there more successful people than I? Absolutely. They worked harder and smarter and as they say, "to the victor, the spoils".

What's your point? That my philosophy is not "middle class Joe" enough for you? What has my wealth or lack of it got to do with anything? What else have you gleaned from my photos? Know how long I will live? Want to read my palm too while you are at it? Do you read tea leaves too?

When you have shown that people care about using and exploiting me, as a business, I will show the same concern about them. Can't get much fairer than that.

Posted By: CHRKE2 Reply posted on:
Nov 28, 2008 - 3:38 am
aklim

And there are also some that work less and more stupidly than you or I and are better off. Life is not a fair thing. Hard and smart work does not guarantee success. It makes your odds a hell of a lot better.

<font color="#ff0000"> Exactly, so rambling on about how hard you worked to get where you are, has nothing to do with treating people fairly by giving them a fair wage and proper grievance etc.</font>

Ethics is very fuzzy. Legal is a lot clearer. Hence I go by legal. I work within the law not outside.
<font color="#ff0000">It's common sense. If you are taking advantage of people by exploiting their vulnerabilities.</font>

In your delusional world, yes. If I go broke tomorrow, who can I depend on to care for me? You? If I cannot depend on anyone but myself, why should I care for anyone but myself?

<font color="#ff0000">It's called unemployment and welfare. Those who work hard and fail should get it. Those who pay in should get it.</font>

And I don't even need to point out that comprehension isn't your forte, do I? Like I said, in a fantasy world, I would have workers that just worked 24X7X365 without pay. In that fantasy world Briana Banks and Tera Patrick are waiting for me at home too. Do you want to talk fantasy or real world? In a real world situation, employees want money for their work so there is no point in wishing they would work for no money any more than wishing the sun to rise in the west tomorrow. To paraphrase you, Get It????

<font color="#ff0000">I think again you are describing your own inabilities. Just you saying that you fantasize about working people 24X7X365 without pay, is a testament to your lack of empathy and compassion for your fellow man. That is why if your business was robbed and you were severely injured and had your life savings taken, I would laugh. HAHA!</font>

Everyone wants to pay as little as possible for the max. What of it?
<font color="#ff0000">Not at the expense of others detriment.</font>

What now? Trying to insult me into seeing things your way?
<font color="#ff0000">If you find the truth insulting, that's on you. You know what they say... Sometimes the truth hurts.</font>

How's that working for you?
<font color="#ff0000">You were obviously insulted, so I'd say well. HAHA!</font>

Guess I will have to wait for luck to hit me to make money then. Sure. We can all just close shop and go home and wait for that multi million dollar winning lottery ticket to blown into my window because I am too lazy to go out and get it. If luck plays such a huge part in your business, maybe you are simply lazy and stupid but extremely lucky? Is that what you believe? Maybe we can all quit our jobs and not work 40 hrs a week. Luck plays a huge role so if luck will make us well off, let luck do all the work. Whatever works for you, I suppose. Me, I prefer to work for it rather than hope it falls in my lap before I starve. Luck is simply your excuse for failure and reason for success. It is not mine. Luck may assist you as in it gets you in the right place at the right time. You still have to be able to use it. Luck may be why you are not Warren Buffet or Bill Gates as far as you are concerned but it is not what I count on for success.
<font color="#ff0000"> Luck is also why <b>you</b> are not either man. I would also like to add that Bill Gates wouldn't know what ethics were if they jumped up and bit him in his stupid face. Let me add again, since you are also lacking severely in the comprehension department. You can work hard and smart as well, so long as you don't fuck people, that with a bit of luck and you just might be wealthy. The first two will atleast allow you to live with yourself, if you fail. You'll never convince me fucking people over and calling them a nigger is acceptable, so why don't you save your cockholster the trouble and close it. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I can walk away knowing more people agree with me. Thanks for playing though. Still waiting on that newspaper article. HAHA</font>



Think what you want but they are not the same AFAIK.

For the average or sub par worker, yes. As a couple of my excellent workers have told me, they are not content with the average wage since they produce above average work and expect to be compensated as such.
<font color="#ff0000">The "average" wage for "average" work should pay a fair amount. The above average work should be risen to match what goes above and beyond. However making people kill themselves and work tons of overtime for a fair wage is bullshit.</font>


I'm not the only contributor. I'm also not the only user. I don't dispute that. My point is that I am not getting anything from the community I didn't pay for. Since I paid my debts, what do I owe you or the community?
<font color="#ff0000">Exactly my point. So long as you pay in, you get out. If you want the benefit of a clean, safe and competent community, you need to pay in like everyone else. That includes healthcare and education. Thanks for proving my point again.</font>

Do you or the community owe me anything? We paid for a police system to protect us from criminals. I paid, the community paid. How are they giving me taxes? We are paying for the maintenance of a system. It is you that is insisting that the business owes the community something besides what it is obligated to pay.
<font color="#ff0000">No, I am insisting that you pay into the system that maintains the community. If you are unemployed, you get those benefits too. If your business were to fail or your family were in need you would get the same benefits. I am not insisting you give anything away. What would you be paying that you wouldn't be getting back in return? Again, thanks for proving my point. HAHA!</font>

It comes back when you lose your job. THAT'S HOW INSURANCE WORKS!!!!!!! I dare you to ask your car insurance provider for the money back, because you didn't wreck. HAHAHA!!! Comprehension issues???

-D-

They give you a discount for not getting into a wreck, like most insurances , but you don't get back what you paid in. HAHA!

-D-

P.S. Oh and I spell it "Faulker"

Eat shit, that's how I spell it. You rat bastard!

-D-

Aklim

Everyone wants to pay as little as possible for the max. What of it?
Not at the expense of others detriment.

Don when you go to buy a new car do you just go in and pay sticker price? If you haggle over price the sales person will make less money and less taxes would be going to the community for education and healthcare. Such a dilemma.

Posted By: CHRKE2 Reply posted on:
Nov 29, 2008 - 7:52 am
Aklim

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Nov 29, 2008 - 2:50 pm
Who is asking you to be "thankful" for your autoi insurance? If everyone pays into a public fund, we all get taken care of and you aren't the only person providing your converage. Your taxes don't cover even close to what your coverage would be worth. Thanks though, for proving my point that healthcare, welfare and education are vital insurances to our society and we should all pay into. There will always be fraud, but that doesn't mean that the system should be dropped, only more closely watched and stiffly regualted. Thanks again. HAHA!

if you lose your job and collect food stamps to get you buy until replace your job, it wasn't only you that provided that insurance. It was the entire contributing community.
===============================================================

Fraud is always going to be present. No question about it. I don't care how closely you watch it and stiffly you regulate it. That is not my issue. My issue is that people need to be responsible for themselves. I don't want and need someone to watch me. IF I don't take care of me, I should pay for it and be an example to others. The Big 2.5 cannot survive? Let them go down and make way for the more deserving. I have never agreed with this cradle to grave thing where we are forced to pay into a Ponzi scheme in case we hit a snag in life. My only beef with education is that we are forcing people into school. This drags down the group. Education would cost a lot less if we made it an optional thing instead of a mandatory thing and make people go whether they want to or not. This wastes resources. Healthcare and Welfare should be YOUR affair. Why should I be dragged into it? I can plan for myself. If I cannot, it is not anyone's fault but my own. I should be left to my own devices and not have to have someone watch over me. Yes, darwin is a bitch. Just like the Big 2.5. They did whatever they wanted. Why should we have to bail them out? Let them go bankrupt. Let a more deserving group come up if it can. Just like the dinosaur. It died out because it could not take care of itself. The fitter species survived and the not so fit group died out. What you want is to keep the dinosaur alive even if it wasn't fit to survive so you want all sorts of programs to keep them going.

Did you make me lose my job? Did you sabotage me? If not why should you be responsible for me? If I get into such a situation, why should I have to drag others into MY wellfare? If I didn't take care of myself enough, what right do I have to demand that you pay into a system so that if I lose my job, I have food to eat? If you are the stupid grasshopper, why should the ant have to feed you? (Original version has the ant telling the grasshopper to take a leap). Similarly, why should I be forced into a system to take care of myself and you? Taking care of myself should be MY responsibility. IF you are talking of a voluntary system, I don't care. IF you are talking about the current Ponzi scheme, where I am forced in, I would disagree. As I said, it is MY welfare we are talking about. Responsibility lies with me. Profits lie with me but so do debts. Your welfare is YOUR problem. You put all your eggs in one basket and drop it, that is YOUR problem not mine. If we had you in the past, we'd still have the dinosaur and all the other species that should have been "Darwined" out still roaming the earth sucking up resources.

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Nov 29, 2008 - 9:48 pm
Despite how well prepared you think you are, there is always away for you to lose it all. There is always a chance for you to depend on others.

Couldn't disagree with you more. Education is vital to the health, well-being and future of our country. A high amount of uneducated ignorant idiots, is why we are consider as one of the fattest, dumbest countries in the world. Lack of education is resonsible for bigotry, discrimination and one of the biggest reasons we allow churches to violate the 1st Amendment. It's also why, like japan, our society is full of lazy consumers whose whole lives revolve around what is marketed to use by corporations. NO THANKS!

You are paying in for your sake not mine and I am paying for mine. That's how communities work. When communities don't work together, they become slums. If you want that, move to South America.

Yeah, it's called you live in the community, you do as the community does. It's simple.

Actually, the individuals are more often "Darwined out". The pack animals are more likely to eat, whilst the solitary animal starves. Thanks for playing though. HAHA!
==============================================================

I think someone once said "If you want a guarantee, get a toaster.". There are NO guarantees in this life. But that said, it is still YOUR responsibility to take care of yourself. Like I said, if you cannot do that, you should be an example to others as what can happen if you fail.

Yes it is important. So what? Oh, you want to drag the horse to the water and you want to make him drink? The child says"Fuck you. I don't want to be educated." So what do you do? Drag him to school and make him sit in class. What will you accomplish? If your intent is to have a day care for a large part of the day, you will get it. Here is what else you will do. Waste money and effort in your attempt, drag down those who want to study and cheapen the whole education value. I don't know what your education level is but here is what I have noticed. The higher up you go, the more serious they are. At Master and PhD level, the students are few and really want to study vs high school where they are forced there and not as serious. At graduate level, the instructors do NOT chase you do do your work or turn in your home work or even get you to pay attention to the material. Why do YOU think this is so? I think it is because they want to be there. Even in a 4 yr college. There is a difference between freshmen and seniors. Unwilling students just become a disruption and a waste of resources. Lack of education is a serious problem. What will you do about it? Throw more money at the problem so you can make up for those you forced into the system? So now you don't like Japan. What is a better country? Marx's USSR?

Fair enough. Why can't I decide what I should pay into or participate in? Why should YOU get to tell me what I should do for MY OWN good? Why can't I decide what I want to do if I am the only one affected?

And yet YOU complain about unethical practices. After all, if there is no law against it how can you say it is not what the community wants? Maybe the community is unethical. Yes we have to follow the rules of the land. Doesn't mean we agree it is the best practice.

Doesn't the predator eat off the old, sick and weak of the herd or does it pick on the strongest? If it is the latter, that leaves more resources for the more able. Speaking of pack animals, they have a hierarchy that you don't like either. In that hierarchy, they have the alphas and the rest. The alphas get first dibs followed by the lower ranking and trickles down to the low man on the pole. In my group of dogs, my alpha bitch gets what she wants. There is a toy the low man is playing with she grabs it just cause. They all have their food but she has been known to eat some of the low position dog's food if she feels like it. I'm surprised that you like that model since you tend to grumble that the big guy eats the little guy whether it needs it or not.

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Nov 30, 2008 - 1:37 pm
Instead of depending on a system that helps everyone in a time of need, you'd rather just mooch off of the people you've preselected to take your burden. You are no different. Spare us your delusions of grandeur. Having a health, education and welfare system in place for those paying into it, is a good thing.

While you maybe an individualist that only cares about you and yours (Not an American),

I am for the benefit of the many. United we stand. You wouldn't understand ideals such as those though.

You are among the many who come to take and not give.

Who said I didn't like Japan?

Then pay your welfare taxes and shut the fuck up. If you don't like it convince everyone that you should be able to take and not give. You want to exploit workers, call them niggers and use a system you aren't willing to pay into.

Let me ask you something, If your wife's reputation was ruined because someone said something about her and she was fired and banned from her profession because of it (having no grievance because there is no union HAHA!), and you were disabled to the point you couldn't work, what would you do???? YOU WOULD HAVE YOUR HAND OUT!!! You'd either take it from friends, family or the system. Unless you're trying to tell us you've already saved enough to retire and that everyone else should be in your situation if you have. NOT!!!!! So spare me your self-righteous bullshit. You are no different than anyone else.

Should we all go without car insurance too??? After all, since we are responsible for ourselves and the choices we make, why should you have to carry insurance if you wreck into me? After all I took the chance of driving on the road, knowing that people make mistakes driving, like companies make when they go out of business and have to get rid of employees. I assumed the risk, when I drive right?? We can use your lame logic on anything. Because, while you may have been the idiot not paying attention at the wheel and caused the accident or the boss that made the bad decision and went out of business, I should take the whole loss because I took the risk... Insurance is just stupid right???

Dude, I am not even debating you anymore, you lack the common sense to even make a valid point.

=============================================================

Where did I say that I will mooch off somebody? Did I say somewhere that if I am in trouble I have my "mooch buddies" to go to? Let me make it clear. If I am in trouble of my doing, I should pay the price. Not you, not my father, not my dog or cat. ME. Nobody else. Please try not to put words into my mouth.

So now somebody appointed you to decide who is American and who is not? How did you get that post?

Let me understand. I am one of the many that want to take and not give. OTOH, you want me to hold the ideal of the 3 musketeers? Ideals are a wonderful thing to have. I understand that ideal all too well. Unfortunately, while I do get a lot of lip service for that ideal, I noticed that when the chips are down, I seem to stand alone quite often. What is my motivation for adopting those ideals? To be the change I wish to see in others?

If that were true, it would be something. I give and take to those who give and take with me. Those tend to be the exception and not the rule. But if you are right, how long would it take for the givers to get tired of me mooching? Even you cannot be so stupid as to let me mooch on you but give nothing in return in spite of your ideals.

That was the impression I got when you said they were falling down because they are becoming like us.

How could I ask you and succeed in getting you not to put words in my mouth? Calling someone "nigger" doesn't do much for me. Where did I say I like to do that? Sounds like fabrication on your part. Exploitation goes both ways. When you can have the employee promise what is on wedding vows, we can discuss how I should care for them. How again am I wanting to use a system I don't want to pay into? Did I ever say I want to take from welfare and not pay into it? I am for a 2 way street. I don't ask for welfare and I am not willing to pay into it.

I just love how you seem to know what I would do in what situation. How do you do it? Ouija board? No, I am not independently wealthy. Even if I were, it could still be lost somehow. And no, according to my POA and the rules I have laid down, I would never allow myself to be that disabled and still be alive begging to suck on some tit.

Don't stop there, please. Keep going. Tell me you know what I will do. Enthrall me with your acumen.

All right. You got me there. Guess I will find someone else who can be abusive and call names better than you. Guess I took all I can take from you. Time to find someone else. I shall miss you and your acerbic ways. NOT!

I just found out that lime green really hurts my eyes!

(the red was nice though)

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Dec 1, 2008 - 1:16 am
You won't be paying anything with no money. HAHA! Make sense. If you get into trouble and have no way to take care of yourself, you will have to do something until your income is replaced. HAHA

It's called my opinion. In my perspective, it means a lot, take it for what you will. I am doing the same with yours, HAHA!

I think the legit worthwhile cases far outweigh the scammers.

Make the recipients work for the state, until they find work in order to receive the benefits, if their unemployment lasts beyond the 30 days.

Condoning or tolerating it is no different than doing it. If you watch and man drown and do nothing, you may as well have shot him.

When you employee actually does the work, that makes you the money, you should compensate them fairly.

Because your current situation is not warranting it, doesn't mean you are incapable of poverty or desperation. You are no different than the next person. You have no special quality or attribute.

HAHA! No you have the Ouija. Those are claims you cannot make. Anything is possible. You are capable of losing your ass and being disabled. You could have a massive stroke tomorrow and your wife could leave you for the fuckin doctor she's eyeing and leave you with nothing in the divorce. You don't know what could happen to. There is always a situation you could end up with your hand out.

One doesn't need a crystal ball to see that if you have nothing and need to eat, you will ask. No mystery, just common sense.... You do know what that is... right??? HAHA!

All right. You got me there. Guess I will find someone else who can be abusive and call names better than you. Guess I took all I can take from you. Time to find someone else. I shall miss you and your acerbic ways. NOT!

How many more times are you going to use "acerbic"? Use a thesaurus HAHA! That's right, you are the megalomaniac, that likes to appear intelligent and witty by using an ostentatious vocabulary.

Try a little less of the delusions of grandeur and using pretentious rhetoric to cover up your utter lack of compassion for your fellow human,

your parasitic idealogy, with respect to the community

and the complete absense of your integrity with someone elses property. That's my opinion... Take it or leave it.
============================================================

My choices are pretty simple in those cases. Cash in on the favors owed and if none, I starve to death since my worth at that point would be zero. I'm not one of those that must live on no matter what.

Thanx. For a moment I really thought that someone gave you more clout than that.

To be honest, I used to think like you. I used to believe that people were basically good and if you are good to them, the good in them will come out. My expectations were high. Often I got disappointed. Then I had an epiphany when I realized that the opposite was true. Today, you will have to work very hard to disappoint me. In spite of that, few people have met my expectations much less exceeded them.

No kidding. I'm buying a lottery ticket today. We agree on something.

To a point, yes. However, we learned in first aid class that if someone is drowning and you are not able to rescue him be it for lack of equipment or training, better he drowns than both of you drown. Like I said, it is an uphill fight that I don't see how I can win. Having seen discrimination from outside all the way to inside my own family, I for one, don't see how it is winnable. Based on what you say, I estimate you will fight the good fight and you will even win a decent percentage of your battles. I see no way you will win the war though, do you? Do you imagine you will even see the end of racism in your lifetime? I don't.. As I said, if that gives you pleasure, knock yourself out. In my book, the people I will be fighting for are not worth it for the most part and I lack your energy and resources to keep fighting for little or no gain. I rather improve myself and minimize the effects of the discrimination be it race, sex, religion, sexual preference, etc, etc.

I have made it a point to compensate my employees as they deserve. So, if you work for me and you came from Wal*Mart and made $6 and worked at that same level, I pay you what the market pays you. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. If you can do twice the work of what a $6 an hour guy can do, I will still pay you at market rate. The only difference is that now you are in a different classification and your market value has changed. So what your market value is up to you. Put yourself in the $6 category and I pay you at that level. Show me consistent work of a $12 person and we can talk about what your market value is. I'm not going to pay you $10 when I can get someone like you for $6. OTOH, if I don't pay you the $12 your market value is, you could take your act elsewhere and I would have to suffer.

You are right about my current situation and that my future situation is uncertain. However, I was not born with that silver spoon in my mouth. Been there, done that. You seem to think I was born the scion of a rich couple with all the benefits and none of the worries.

My advance directives prevent that. If I become a burden, they are only allowed to give me comfort measures till I pass. No permanent tube feeding, years in coma, etc, etc. When my useful life is over, they are NOT to do anything to prolong it. When the best I can be is a burden to someone, my useful life is over. If I have a massive stroke and my useful life is over, it is over. If I am paralyzed, my useful life is over. The math is pretty simple. I'd die before I have to live my life with my hand out.

Your equation and common sense is only good if I am of the same mindset as you. That I want to live at all costs. You don't really understand my mindset. If I cannot live on my terms, IT IS OVER. If I am wheelchair bound for the rest of my life, it is over. If I am crippled for life, it is over. What part of that progression escapes you?

Unlike you, I prefer to use "big words" as opposed to "fucktard", "asshole", "moron", etc, etc. Words like that, IMO, are often used by uncivilized barbarians. I don't care how much education you have or don't have but abusive language is for the uncivilized. I know of people who couldn't pass high school if you put a gun to their head. Yet their vocabulary does NOT consist of variations of 4 letter words. It's not my fault that the best you can do is behave like a redneck, is it? Maybe if you used a thesaurus and/or dictionary, you might find that you can express yourself without giving the impression that you are uncivilized. Or is this considered the manner of someone respectable?

I'm not covering it up. I will admit freely that I have no, zero, zilch compassion for my fellow human in general. There are those I have a good relationship with that I have compassion for. The rest, I don't. I don't make any bones about that. Why should I? I don't have to. As the old Chase Bank slogan goes "Chase, where the right relationship is everything.". It is about the relationship. I don't know why you think I am trying to hide it. In fact, I declare it.

I'm not sure I understand why you say that. As I said before, I ask no quarter and I give none. I don't care to support others in society in their time of need and I don't ask that others come to me in my time of need. The only exception is if they owe me favors because I have done favors for them.

And as I have said before to you, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do.". When you put me in an ethical society lets talk of ethics. We are NOT in an ethical society so to me, talk of ethics is pretty much worthless. The RC church sounds as good as you do. All that talk of doing the right thing, etc, etc. Remember Cardinal Law? He was a prince of the church that shuffled pedophiles around lying about them in reference letters. Do you remember that the Pope did The Catholic Shuffle and moved him somewhere in the Vatican. So much for doing the right thing because it is the right thing. That is one glaring example. There are way more out there of people with their "do the right thing till push comes to shove." attitude. So no, that sort of ethics doesn't impress me. People tend to talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Maybe you think it means something but I don't. Maybe you think it is a wonderful world out there and we should all do our part to make it better. I don't see it.

Weigh in by all means. Aklim, is in the minority in his "mindset", therefore his sense isn't COMMON! He just admitted that he thinks people should kill themselves if they become unproductive in the sense of income. HAHA!! Again, I'll chalk this one up as my win.

-D-

Posted By: TEQUILAROSE Reply posted on:
Dec 1, 2008 - 3:11 pm
Weigh in by all means. Aklim, is in the minority in his "mindset", therefore his sense isn't COMMON! He just admitted that he thinks people should kill themselves if they become unproductive in the sense of income. HAHA!! Again, I'll chalk this one up as my win.
==============================================================

I said this where? I said if I (not Joe Schmoe) becomes a burden, I would choose not to live. If YOU want to be a burden and live and are happy with it, I don't think I should kill you or encourage you to kill yourself. I choose not to be a burden on others and have to depend on them. I choose not to be sick, unemployed and sucking up your resources. If you want to follow my philosophy, fine. If not, I don't think you should do it. I will not go hat in hand asking someone for a handout if I am unable and/or unwilling to pay my own way. If I cannot stand on my own feet, it is time for ME to end it. Me, not you, him or her. What part of that says that I think you should kill yourself if you are a burden on others?