http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=77e_1202539354
- Reply by quick capture - Reply by uploading content
McCain was born on August 29, 1936, at the Coco Solo Air Base in the then-American-controlled Panama Canal Zone.
Take a look at this:
From the US State Department website at http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf
7 FAM 1116.1-4 Not Included in the Meaning of "In the United States"
(TL:CON-64; 11-30-95)
a. A U.S.-registered or documented ship on the high seas or in the More.. exclusive economic zone is not considered to be part of the United States. A child born on such a vessel does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of the place of birth (Lam Mow v. Nagle, 24 F.2d 316 (9th Cir., 1928)).
b. A U.S.-registered aircraft outside U.S. airspace is not considered to be part of U.S. territory. A child born on such an aircraft outside U.S. airspace does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of the place of birth.
<font color="880000">c. <u>Despite widespread popular belief</u>, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.</font>
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President -- The Constitution of the United States, Article II Section 1
-D-
P.S.
<input type="button" value="Click Here" onClick="location.href='groups.php?action=addjoin&groupid=284'"> to Join the the "Free Thinkers" Group. To return to the group at anytime, just click on the "Groups" on the main menu bar. Free Thinkers is dedicated to controversial topics and free thought. Come check it out. <div style="width:150px; background-color:#000000;"><b><font color="#ff0000">OBAMA </font><script>document.write('<img src="ht'+'tp://w'+'ww.clickfire.com/images/flags/us.gif">')</script><font color="#ffffff"> BIDEN</font><font color="#0198e1"> 2008</font></b></div>
- Reply by quick capture - Reply by uploading content
McCain was born on August 29, 1936, at the Coco Solo Air Base in the then-American-controlled Panama Canal Zone.
Take a look at this:
From the US State Department website at http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf
7 FAM 1116.1-4 Not Included in the Meaning of "In the United States"
(TL:CON-64; 11-30-95)
a. A U.S.-registered or documented ship on the high seas or in the More.. exclusive economic zone is not considered to be part of the United States. A child born on such a vessel does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of the place of birth (Lam Mow v. Nagle, 24 F.2d 316 (9th Cir., 1928)).
b. A U.S.-registered aircraft outside U.S. airspace is not considered to be part of U.S. territory. A child born on such an aircraft outside U.S. airspace does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of the place of birth.
<font color="880000">c. <u>Despite widespread popular belief</u>, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.</font>
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President -- The Constitution of the United States, Article II Section 1
-D-
P.S.
<input type="button" value="Click Here" onClick="location.href='groups.php?action=addjoin&groupid=284'"> to Join the the "Free Thinkers" Group. To return to the group at anytime, just click on the "Groups" on the main menu bar. Free Thinkers is dedicated to controversial topics and free thought. Come check it out. <div style="width:150px; background-color:#000000;"><b><font color="#ff0000">OBAMA </font><script>document.write('<img src="ht'+'tp://w'+'ww.clickfire.com/images/flags/us.gif">')</script><font color="#ffffff"> BIDEN</font><font color="#0198e1"> 2008</font></b></div>
so your contention is that any serviceman or diplomat or us citizen that has a child outside of the u.s. then that child can't be president. sorry but that is really scraping very low to try to lift obama
Gibson Dunn Associates Fight for McCain in Suits Over Citizenship
Brian Baxter
The American Lawyer
September 19, 2008
Printer-friendly Email this Article Reprints & Permissions
Plaintiffs seeking to derail Sen. John McCain's presidential bid by claiming that the decorated Vietnam War veteran is not a natural born U.S. citizen are being stymied in their quest by four Washington, D.C.-based Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher associates.
Aided by former U.S. Solicitor General and current Gibson Dunn partner Theodore Olson, the team of legal volunteers has spent the past several months representing McCain and the Republican National Committee in courtrooms throughout the country. (Campaign finance rules prohibit pro bono work for political campaigns, but lawyers are allowed to volunteer on their own time.) On Tuesday, a federal court in San Francisco decided the most recent suit in McCain's favor.
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202424628932
Brian Baxter
The American Lawyer
September 19, 2008
Printer-friendly Email this Article Reprints & Permissions
Plaintiffs seeking to derail Sen. John McCain's presidential bid by claiming that the decorated Vietnam War veteran is not a natural born U.S. citizen are being stymied in their quest by four Washington, D.C.-based Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher associates.
Aided by former U.S. Solicitor General and current Gibson Dunn partner Theodore Olson, the team of legal volunteers has spent the past several months representing McCain and the Republican National Committee in courtrooms throughout the country. (Campaign finance rules prohibit pro bono work for political campaigns, but lawyers are allowed to volunteer on their own time.) On Tuesday, a federal court in San Francisco decided the most recent suit in McCain's favor.
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202424628932
The US Constitution states "Naturalized" in addition to "citizen". That was the debate.
Again, you folks are missing TR's point, the Constitution specifically states "naturalized citizen" not just "citizen". While I agree with you on his ability to run for office, TR and the aforementioned lawsuit, do make a good point: McCain is not a "naturalized citizen." However, I feel that any member of the armed services or in government service who has a child in or out of the country, that child should be entitled the same privileges of any US Citizen and be naturalized.
Arnold, No. McCain, Yes.
Mav
Arnold, No. McCain, Yes.
Mav
TEASIN,
I think you need to read before you accuse me of anything. I simply posted what I found and didn't offer any opinion. I just thought it was interesting. HAHA! I also think it's important to note that it doesn't matter what anyone of us think or what forms say. It matters what the laws reads.
-D-
PS. Mav, I would rather Schwarzenegger than McCain.
I think you need to read before you accuse me of anything. I simply posted what I found and didn't offer any opinion. I just thought it was interesting. HAHA! I also think it's important to note that it doesn't matter what anyone of us think or what forms say. It matters what the laws reads.
-D-
PS. Mav, I would rather Schwarzenegger than McCain.
TR: Amen to that. Arnold all the way!
http://www.miniclip.com/games/mccain-vs-obama/en/
Cool little flash game.
Cool little flash game.
Like most republicans, how nice it is to leave out the major points of a debate....
"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President;"
You conveniently left out the "at the time of the adoption of this Constitution."
Nice try....
Mav
"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President;"
You conveniently left out the "at the time of the adoption of this Constitution."
Nice try....
Mav
Mav,
You play the game?
-D-
You play the game?
-D-
HAHA "Save America"... Republican just tanked the country the last 8 years. <b>FUCK THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!</b>
Teasin:
"or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution"
is clearly understood to mean the people alive at the time of the adoption of the Constitution. So, if any of them want to run for President now, so be it. I'll vote for them. McCain is old but he is not THAT old! lol
Mav
"or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution"
is clearly understood to mean the people alive at the time of the adoption of the Constitution. So, if any of them want to run for President now, so be it. I'll vote for them. McCain is old but he is not THAT old! lol
Mav
TEASIN,
Sorry buddy, Democrats have only been in power since January of last year. 110th United States Congress began 3 January of 2007. Both the 108th and 109th were a Republican Majority. I think it's your <b>FUCKING</b> argument that failed.
Oh and I "curse" for emphasis. Expletives are used to provide emphasis and emotion. You are repeating yourself. What do you do when someone isn't hearing the truth??? <b>YOU YELL!!!</b>
You are claiming democrats tanked the economy and it's not the truth. I showed you the gas trends and the president used false data to start a 3 trillion dollar war with Iraq. Your Republican party is the blame big guy.
-D-
P.S. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat the lie... It's still a lie.
Sorry buddy, Democrats have only been in power since January of last year. 110th United States Congress began 3 January of 2007. Both the 108th and 109th were a Republican Majority. I think it's your <b>FUCKING</b> argument that failed.
Oh and I "curse" for emphasis. Expletives are used to provide emphasis and emotion. You are repeating yourself. What do you do when someone isn't hearing the truth??? <b>YOU YELL!!!</b>
You are claiming democrats tanked the economy and it's not the truth. I showed you the gas trends and the president used false data to start a 3 trillion dollar war with Iraq. Your Republican party is the blame big guy.
-D-
P.S. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat the lie... It's still a lie.
<b>TEASIN,</b>
The Constitution's first 10 Amendments were ratified in 1788, making them effective in 1789. You need to read before you make such bold claims. If what you are saying is true, then Arnold Schwartzenegger would be eligible, because he's been a citizen for over 7 years and has naturalized. <b>HE IS NOT ELIGIBLE!</b>
What you think should be true and right, isn't what is written in the law. While you think McCain is deserving, I don't. I think not only because of the law, but because he has proven that he cannot make wise decisions. From his choice in Palin to his Showboat political move to say he would "possibly delay the debates" to his inability to accept that the surge didn't work and that the economy is indeed in trouble, the man is inept. He is asleep at the helm before he's even taken control. He's an idiot.
<b>MAV,</b>
He's reading only the parts that he wants.
-D-
Save the country and tune out the Republican bullshit. OBAMA/BIDEN 2008!
The Constitution's first 10 Amendments were ratified in 1788, making them effective in 1789. You need to read before you make such bold claims. If what you are saying is true, then Arnold Schwartzenegger would be eligible, because he's been a citizen for over 7 years and has naturalized. <b>HE IS NOT ELIGIBLE!</b>
What you think should be true and right, isn't what is written in the law. While you think McCain is deserving, I don't. I think not only because of the law, but because he has proven that he cannot make wise decisions. From his choice in Palin to his Showboat political move to say he would "possibly delay the debates" to his inability to accept that the surge didn't work and that the economy is indeed in trouble, the man is inept. He is asleep at the helm before he's even taken control. He's an idiot.
<b>MAV,</b>
He's reading only the parts that he wants.
-D-
Save the country and tune out the Republican bullshit. OBAMA/BIDEN 2008!
When will either party put together a good running team? Come on Palin for the pubs and Biden for the dems? Sheesh.
I'm done. Vote green party.
I'm done. Vote green party.
TEASIN,
The Constitution was written in Philadelphia between May and September of 1787, ratified in 1788 and came into effect in 1789. You need to read a history book. Whether you are male or female, big guy, matters not. Your skewed version of history is a testament to ability to make an informed decision on our next president. I've shot down all of your arguments and all you can do is provide a bunch of mis/disinformation and tell me I am using "democrat tactics". Whatever you say, <b>BIG GUY!</b>
http://www.senate.gov
-D-
The Constitution was written in Philadelphia between May and September of 1787, ratified in 1788 and came into effect in 1789. You need to read a history book. Whether you are male or female, big guy, matters not. Your skewed version of history is a testament to ability to make an informed decision on our next president. I've shot down all of your arguments and all you can do is provide a bunch of mis/disinformation and tell me I am using "democrat tactics". Whatever you say, <b>BIG GUY!</b>
http://www.senate.gov
-D-
Teasin,
You didn't piss me off. You got your ass handed to you in a debate. I hope you sleep well knowing that. Nighty Night
Mav,
I agree, I don't really care for Biden's view on somethings. I think he gets a bit over-zealous with gun control. I think heavy regulation is the key and he would just as soon outlaw them all. Palin??? I think she's a joke.
-D-
You didn't piss me off. You got your ass handed to you in a debate. I hope you sleep well knowing that. Nighty Night
Mav,
I agree, I don't really care for Biden's view on somethings. I think he gets a bit over-zealous with gun control. I think heavy regulation is the key and he would just as soon outlaw them all. Palin??? I think she's a joke.
-D-
I say fuck obama
>
>
HIGHWAY1,
Already watched that one. There are plenty of vets that say fuck McCain, including me.
<script>document.write('<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="ht'+'tp://ww'+'w.
&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="ht'+'tp://ww'+'w.
&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>');</script>
-D-
Already watched that one. There are plenty of vets that say fuck McCain, including me.
<script>document.write('<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="ht'+'tp://ww'+'w.
&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="ht'+'tp://ww'+'w.
&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>');</script>
-D-
How can Obama be a good choice when he won't even say the pledge of allegance and he and his wife aren't proud to be American's.
Is this who you really want for your president? Someone that will sell America out to the highest bidder!!!!
You forget what America is and what it took to have a free country.
That's all I have to say.
Is this who you really want for your president? Someone that will sell America out to the highest bidder!!!!
You forget what America is and what it took to have a free country.
That's all I have to say.
<b>STARTEDINVEGAS,</b>
<script>document.write('<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="ht'+'tp://ww'+'w.
&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="ht'+'tp://ww'+'w.
&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>');</script>
<b>RIGHT THERE AT 1 MINUTE 45 SECONDS.</b>
<hr>
Perhaps you need to quit falling for the ridiculous lies that the 'Good Christian' Right, have been spewing. You are regurgitating old lies that have already been addressed.
-D-
<script>document.write('<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="ht'+'tp://ww'+'w.
&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="ht'+'tp://ww'+'w.
&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>');</script>
<b>RIGHT THERE AT 1 MINUTE 45 SECONDS.</b>
<hr>
Perhaps you need to quit falling for the ridiculous lies that the 'Good Christian' Right, have been spewing. You are regurgitating old lies that have already been addressed.
-D-
I agree with Mav. Both Dems and Republican'ts SUCK!!! GREEN PARTY!!!! Believing what any of these candidates are saying is proclaiming how naive you are. Politics is just like religion. It is a big hoax and you are a sucker if you don't question what each and every person in power in both catagories is spewing. Enough of our societies mindless conformity, this system doesn't work anymore!!!!!!!!!!
SINCITY,
I am in no way supportive Obama church or his dogma, numb nuts. Obama isn't trying to legislate his fucking dogma like the McCain/Palin camp with their definition of sex education, sanctity of marriage and their self-righteous zealotry and flagrant bigotry from racism to their persecution and oppression of anyone that doesn't follow their dogma. The sad thing is, it's become a necessary Presidential qualification in the minds of the Christian Majority voters of this Country, to be a Christian, else the bullshit about Obama being Muslim wouldn't surface.
I speak out against the Church's encroachment on eveyone's civil rights. Just like many of you that think your 2nd Amendment is being trampled, though I don't see anyone not being able to bear arms. So, SINCITY, I could give a fuck if you like whether I speak out against religious oppression. You are just another swinging hypocrite trying to tell me this country's government needs the Christian God's help to make it. <b>FUCK THAT AND FUCK YOU! </b>
<script>document.write('<img src="ht'+'tp://gdpit.com/avatars_pictures/animated/gdpit_com_45464553_67.gif">');</script>
-D-
I am in no way supportive Obama church or his dogma, numb nuts. Obama isn't trying to legislate his fucking dogma like the McCain/Palin camp with their definition of sex education, sanctity of marriage and their self-righteous zealotry and flagrant bigotry from racism to their persecution and oppression of anyone that doesn't follow their dogma. The sad thing is, it's become a necessary Presidential qualification in the minds of the Christian Majority voters of this Country, to be a Christian, else the bullshit about Obama being Muslim wouldn't surface.
I speak out against the Church's encroachment on eveyone's civil rights. Just like many of you that think your 2nd Amendment is being trampled, though I don't see anyone not being able to bear arms. So, SINCITY, I could give a fuck if you like whether I speak out against religious oppression. You are just another swinging hypocrite trying to tell me this country's government needs the Christian God's help to make it. <b>FUCK THAT AND FUCK YOU! </b>
<script>document.write('<img src="ht'+'tp://gdpit.com/avatars_pictures/animated/gdpit_com_45464553_67.gif">');</script>
-D-
Well, wouldn't that mean Obama too? I am not convinced that he was born on "American soil.
While we are at it.. it should be said that Obama's camp shouldn't be setting new lows in voter fraud. Registering illegals and convicted felons,etc. I am beginning to think that Acorn is being ran about the Obama campaign.
Folks, don't get your blood pressure up b/c of TR he's very down on any religion and seems to be really bitter about most things. Maybe he does have more in common with small town people than he wants to admit.
Whatever religion anybody has is cool with me until it starts to involve killing people or messing with children. Till then have a nice whatever and don't fault me because I want to wish you a merry Christmas. Just acknowledge that I was trying to be nice you don't have to have a cow and peel my ears back.
While we are at it.. it should be said that Obama's camp shouldn't be setting new lows in voter fraud. Registering illegals and convicted felons,etc. I am beginning to think that Acorn is being ran about the Obama campaign.
Folks, don't get your blood pressure up b/c of TR he's very down on any religion and seems to be really bitter about most things. Maybe he does have more in common with small town people than he wants to admit.
Whatever religion anybody has is cool with me until it starts to involve killing people or messing with children. Till then have a nice whatever and don't fault me because I want to wish you a merry Christmas. Just acknowledge that I was trying to be nice you don't have to have a cow and peel my ears back.
"Whatever religion anybody has is cool with me until it starts to involve killing people or messing with children."
<hr>
Most all religion, to include Christianity is guilty of that. Timothy McVeigh was a christian. It was a christian man that walked into a Unitarian Church with an assault rifle and started smoking everyone inside.
I have nothing against religion either, so long as it's kept in the private lives of those who wish to be involved. It has no place in government or laws. When any church treads on my civil rights, I take issue. So, now that you are set straight regarding my position, I would appreciate it, if you wouldn't make false accusations about me being "down on religion". Thanks.
-D-
<hr>
Most all religion, to include Christianity is guilty of that. Timothy McVeigh was a christian. It was a christian man that walked into a Unitarian Church with an assault rifle and started smoking everyone inside.
I have nothing against religion either, so long as it's kept in the private lives of those who wish to be involved. It has no place in government or laws. When any church treads on my civil rights, I take issue. So, now that you are set straight regarding my position, I would appreciate it, if you wouldn't make false accusations about me being "down on religion". Thanks.
-D-
Friends DON'T let friends vote democratic! McCain/Palin08
That wasn't clever the first time you wrote it.
<script>document.write('<img src="ht'+'tp://gdpit.com/avatars_pictures/fun/gdpit_com_6502307_110.gif">');</script>
-D-
<script>document.write('<img src="ht'+'tp://gdpit.com/avatars_pictures/fun/gdpit_com_6502307_110.gif">');</script>
-D-
Teasin,
Just wanted to point out some clarification. And I apologize ahead of time if someone has already posted some of this.
The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776. The Constitution was drafted in 1787 and then ratified in 1788. The first presidential Election was held in 1788 with George Washington taking office in January of 1789. Just a matter of setting history correctly.
As for the arguments about presidential eligibility please read on:
US Constitution Article 2 section 1 Paragraph 4 (in its entirety)
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.
So based on this paragraph, there are 3 qualifications to allow someone to be eligible for President:
1) must be a Natural born citizen or a citizen at the time the Constitution was adopted --- translation - the person must be born as a citizen or been at the time the constitution was put into play ( that was done since a vast portion of the population of the newly formed United States was born in another country or colony, That part is considered to no longer apply as everyone born at the time of the Constitutions writing has died.)
2) "have attained the age of 35 years" --- pretty self explanatory - a candidate must be at least 35 years old before they can run for president.
3) "and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States." --- This does not mean that any person can be naturalized and after 14 years be eligible to run. What it means is that the candidate has to have lived in the US as a full time resident for the 14 years immediately preceeding their bid for the presidency.
It is my understanding that, for the purposes of citizenship, any child born to US diplomats or Military personnel actively serving overseas are automatically considered to be US citizens. I could be wrong and I will admit that I don't know this to be a fact. However, since at the time the constitution was written the United States had no overseas military bases so they could not have planned for that contingency at the time.
Just wanted to point out some clarification. And I apologize ahead of time if someone has already posted some of this.
The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776. The Constitution was drafted in 1787 and then ratified in 1788. The first presidential Election was held in 1788 with George Washington taking office in January of 1789. Just a matter of setting history correctly.
As for the arguments about presidential eligibility please read on:
US Constitution Article 2 section 1 Paragraph 4 (in its entirety)
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.
So based on this paragraph, there are 3 qualifications to allow someone to be eligible for President:
1) must be a Natural born citizen or a citizen at the time the Constitution was adopted --- translation - the person must be born as a citizen or been at the time the constitution was put into play ( that was done since a vast portion of the population of the newly formed United States was born in another country or colony, That part is considered to no longer apply as everyone born at the time of the Constitutions writing has died.)
2) "have attained the age of 35 years" --- pretty self explanatory - a candidate must be at least 35 years old before they can run for president.
3) "and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States." --- This does not mean that any person can be naturalized and after 14 years be eligible to run. What it means is that the candidate has to have lived in the US as a full time resident for the 14 years immediately preceeding their bid for the presidency.
It is my understanding that, for the purposes of citizenship, any child born to US diplomats or Military personnel actively serving overseas are automatically considered to be US citizens. I could be wrong and I will admit that I don't know this to be a fact. However, since at the time the constitution was written the United States had no overseas military bases so they could not have planned for that contingency at the time.
Here's the case that was before the Federal Court. I am sorry, this is fairly long post.
Fred Hollander v. Senator John McCain and the Republican National Committee
Civil No. 08-cv-99-JL
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW HAMP-SHIRE
2008 DNH 129; 2008 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 56729
July 24, 2008, Decided
COUNSEL: [*1] Fred Hollander, Plaintiff, Pro se, Nashua, NH.
For John McCain, Senator, Republican National Committee, Defendants: Amir C. Tayrani, Matthew D. McGill, LEAD ATTORNEYS, PRO HAC VICE, Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP (DC), Washington, DC; Charles G. Douglas, III, LEAD ATTORNEY, Douglas Leonard & Garvey, Concord, NH.
For United States Citizenship and Immigration Service, Movant: Seth R. Aframe, LEAD ATTORNEY, US Attorney's Office (NH), Concord, NH.
JUDGES: Joseph N. Laplante, United States District Judge.
OPINION BY: Joseph N. Laplante
OPINION
ORDER
Fred Hollander, proceeding pro se, brings this action challenging Senator John McCain's eligibility to serve as President of the United States. Hollander claims that McCain, by virtue of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone--albeit to American parents--is not a "natural born Citizen" eligible to hold the office of President under Article II,
Fred Hollander v. Senator John McCain and the Republican National Committee
Civil No. 08-cv-99-JL
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW HAMP-SHIRE
2008 DNH 129; 2008 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 56729
July 24, 2008, Decided
COUNSEL: [*1] Fred Hollander, Plaintiff, Pro se, Nashua, NH.
For John McCain, Senator, Republican National Committee, Defendants: Amir C. Tayrani, Matthew D. McGill, LEAD ATTORNEYS, PRO HAC VICE, Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP (DC), Washington, DC; Charles G. Douglas, III, LEAD ATTORNEY, Douglas Leonard & Garvey, Concord, NH.
For United States Citizenship and Immigration Service, Movant: Seth R. Aframe, LEAD ATTORNEY, US Attorney's Office (NH), Concord, NH.
JUDGES: Joseph N. Laplante, United States District Judge.
OPINION BY: Joseph N. Laplante
OPINION
ORDER
Fred Hollander, proceeding pro se, brings this action challenging Senator John McCain's eligibility to serve as President of the United States. Hollander claims that McCain, by virtue of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone--albeit to American parents--is not a "natural born Citizen" eligible to hold the office of President under Article II,
"A natural born citizen or a citizen of the United States may run for office of President."
Webster difines Naturalized as: Admitted to citizenship.
Webster difines citizen as: A native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it.
<hr>
You are defining "Naturalized" and not "natural born". McCain is not natural born and therein lies the problem. You are confusing yourself with your own bullshit.
TANTRIKLVR,
Thanks for posting that, though it only shows that the court it was filed in didn't have jurisdiction to hear the case. Perhaps the gentleman that filed that will seek United States Court in his area and not a State Court.
-D-
Webster difines Naturalized as: Admitted to citizenship.
Webster difines citizen as: A native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it.
<hr>
You are defining "Naturalized" and not "natural born". McCain is not natural born and therein lies the problem. You are confusing yourself with your own bullshit.
TANTRIKLVR,
Thanks for posting that, though it only shows that the court it was filed in didn't have jurisdiction to hear the case. Perhaps the gentleman that filed that will seek United States Court in his area and not a State Court.
-D-
Aren't Millitary Installations and Embassy considered American Soil..or am I missing something,,sounds like you want to make any child born to a serviceman or woman overseas a citizen of that country and not our own. I do believe this is a disservice to our millitary and their families.
Don't care who wins,,the election,, we are all screwed and won't even get a kiss, grope or or a FU until tax time.
FYI no spellcheck was used during this post..
the mrs
Don't care who wins,,the election,, we are all screwed and won't even get a kiss, grope or or a FU until tax time.
FYI no spellcheck was used during this post..
the mrs
Not according to the constitution and the state department. I have no doubt that he is a citizen like Mr. Schwartzenegger, but it appears he's ineligible to be president, according to the law, because those installations are not considered American soil and he wasn't natural born.
-D-
-D-
A natural born citizen is covered under (jus soli or law of the soil) or (jus sanguinis law of bloodline) these are well covered in the link TR provided.
Now that that this is settled who is planning to go to the Erotic Ball???? Or knows of a better swinger halloween party, we should really strive to have a blast this year as apparently the world comes to an end the morning after the second tuesday in November.
Thought and Siren for president, think of the party they could throw in the oval office.
Bob
Now that that this is settled who is planning to go to the Erotic Ball???? Or knows of a better swinger halloween party, we should really strive to have a blast this year as apparently the world comes to an end the morning after the second tuesday in November.
Thought and Siren for president, think of the party they could throw in the oval office.
Bob
I don't know about anyone else but I think my best advise to you TR is to get a hobby.
The elections will be over in a month or so and you will have NOTHING to do.
I pity such a lifeless bastard.
The elections will be over in a month or so and you will have NOTHING to do.
I pity such a lifeless bastard.
TEQUILAROSE,
Thank you. The case was actually filed in the Federal District Court (so procedurally it was correctly filed). The Court punted the case, as would be expected from a District Court, for lack of "standing." The Court basically said, the Plaintiff did not have standing because there is no relief a court could grant that would help the plaintiff personally. I guess if another candidate (such as Ron Paul or someone) brings the case, then they would likely have standing to litigate the issue. Although, reading older cases from early 1900s basically interpret the phrase "natural born" to include children of US citizens born abroad. So eventually it may be a losing case. (just my very humble opinion).
Thank you. The case was actually filed in the Federal District Court (so procedurally it was correctly filed). The Court punted the case, as would be expected from a District Court, for lack of "standing." The Court basically said, the Plaintiff did not have standing because there is no relief a court could grant that would help the plaintiff personally. I guess if another candidate (such as Ron Paul or someone) brings the case, then they would likely have standing to litigate the issue. Although, reading older cases from early 1900s basically interpret the phrase "natural born" to include children of US citizens born abroad. So eventually it may be a losing case. (just my very humble opinion).
TANTRIKLVR,
I totally disagree. The Constitution says the qualifications clearly. I think the case has lots of merit.
<font color="ff0000">
"1 Though Hollander makes this allegation in his complaint, in his objection he states, "[s]ince the hospital at the Coco Solo Naval Air Station did not even exist until 1941 . . . , it is reasonable to assume that [McCain] was born in the city of Colon in the Republic of Panama." Hollander has also provided a copy of McCain's birth cer-tificate, which lists his place of birth as Colon."</font>
Supreme Court rulings have often overturned previous rulings with regard to constitutional interpretation. The Supreme Court can only define current writing and should not include what they think should be there; that is should be the job of a ratified Constitutional Amendment. According to the original wording, McCain is not qualified. It sounds to me like the Constitution needs to be Amendended with a more clear definition. It is not the Supreme Courts job to create a law that doesn't exist only to interpret the existing law. Natural Born means '<b>IN</b> THE UNITED STATES'.
The only argument in defense of McCain was that he was granted citizenship by retroactive legislation. This still doesn't constitute "Natural Born" citizenship. So, again, I think this case would have a lot of merit based upon the compelling facts. If I were a juror in this case, I would rule in Hollander's favor based sheerly on what was written. By all means, play Devil's Advocate and argue McCain's side.
-D-
I totally disagree. The Constitution says the qualifications clearly. I think the case has lots of merit.
<font color="ff0000">
"1 Though Hollander makes this allegation in his complaint, in his objection he states, "[s]ince the hospital at the Coco Solo Naval Air Station did not even exist until 1941 . . . , it is reasonable to assume that [McCain] was born in the city of Colon in the Republic of Panama." Hollander has also provided a copy of McCain's birth cer-tificate, which lists his place of birth as Colon."</font>
Supreme Court rulings have often overturned previous rulings with regard to constitutional interpretation. The Supreme Court can only define current writing and should not include what they think should be there; that is should be the job of a ratified Constitutional Amendment. According to the original wording, McCain is not qualified. It sounds to me like the Constitution needs to be Amendended with a more clear definition. It is not the Supreme Courts job to create a law that doesn't exist only to interpret the existing law. Natural Born means '<b>IN</b> THE UNITED STATES'.
The only argument in defense of McCain was that he was granted citizenship by retroactive legislation. This still doesn't constitute "Natural Born" citizenship. So, again, I think this case would have a lot of merit based upon the compelling facts. If I were a juror in this case, I would rule in Hollander's favor based sheerly on what was written. By all means, play Devil's Advocate and argue McCain's side.
-D-
So like Democrats to try to win on a technicality. This is by definition grasping at straws.
Way to go TR way to stick true to your Party. Sheep! all of you!
Obama is little more than a TOOL.
Way to go TR way to stick true to your Party. Sheep! all of you!
Obama is little more than a TOOL.
Said like a true Republican, Classy and not a "Swing voter". You're so full of shit. MCCAIN IS LITTLE MORE THAN A TOOL.
-D-
-D-
In that sense you are NO Liberal...just a true Democrat pretending to be Liberal so he doesn't have to wear the sign of a "Jackass" on his hat.
According to you. According to me, you are a Republican hypocrite, spewing the republican propaganda. You offer nothing new to the argument. You bring nothing to the table. Where does that leave us?? It leaves you voting for your candidate and me for mine.
My reasons are valid for not voting for McCain. He said himself he is willing to spend 100 years in Iraq, I have seen him stumble over questions regarding Iraq and the economy, the latter he has admitted, he knows little about.
It's not democratic party expectation that drives me, it's my lack of desire to vote for a man that would be asleep at the wheel that prevents me from voting for McCain. So spare me the hypocrisy, I have had enough of it from you. Thanks though.
-D-
My reasons are valid for not voting for McCain. He said himself he is willing to spend 100 years in Iraq, I have seen him stumble over questions regarding Iraq and the economy, the latter he has admitted, he knows little about.
It's not democratic party expectation that drives me, it's my lack of desire to vote for a man that would be asleep at the wheel that prevents me from voting for McCain. So spare me the hypocrisy, I have had enough of it from you. Thanks though.
-D-
Well I for one...and maybe many more, are tired of your input as well. Your pissing and moaning and public insults are OLD.
If ANYONE really wants to make a difference lets forget the Dems and Reps and vote for Ron Paul...oh yeah! we cant because of the sheep like you, dam!
If ANYONE really wants to make a difference lets forget the Dems and Reps and vote for Ron Paul...oh yeah! we cant because of the sheep like you, dam!
If you don't like what I have to say, kindly fuck off. I am not hear for your approval. I am offering my thoughts in thread I created on a purely voluntary public forum. You are getting angry with me, because I don't agree with your position. That's your problem. You'll have to excuse me if I don't sympathize with you. I am in no way preventing you from your opinion or your vote. It's apparent that you can't come up with a way to refute what I am saying and you've resorted to insults, I can play that game well too, as I too, have been there HAHA!
-D-
P.S. If Ron Paul were the Republican Candidate, I might consider voting for him.
-D-
P.S. If Ron Paul were the Republican Candidate, I might consider voting for him.
Don't you think for a second you have angered me, you have NOT.
You sir are the one who resorts to name calling when people disagree with you.
I have as much right to my opinion as you do, when you stop and give ANYONE the room to express their opinion without your bullshit I will do the same for you.
Don't play that picked on shit with me Don, this ain't my first go round with you.
The sheep in this country is why Ron Paul never had a chance, its to bad too. If anything is ever going to change in this country we have to stop electing politicians into office.
You sir are the one who resorts to name calling when people disagree with you.
I have as much right to my opinion as you do, when you stop and give ANYONE the room to express their opinion without your bullshit I will do the same for you.
Don't play that picked on shit with me Don, this ain't my first go round with you.
The sheep in this country is why Ron Paul never had a chance, its to bad too. If anything is ever going to change in this country we have to stop electing politicians into office.
Come on Classy... You're the one calling me a sheep and a jackass etc. I have yet to call you anything. You're the one telling me that you're sick of my rants etc. I am not saying anything of the sort to you.
All I have ever stood for is the freedoms afforded to us by the Constitution. The Majority Republican party are Christians with an agenda to legislate Christian dogma. Many of these laws rape the 1st Amendment. From their stance on drugs and immigration to their stance on same sex marriage, abortion and many other moral/social issues, Republicans are controlled by masses of Christians. I will never vote for someone that pushes Christian agenda to that degree.
Obama is a Christian, but the majority of Democrats are liberal minded and put the views of a diverse populous over a select group like Christians. Obama wouldn't push a Christian agenda. Ron Paul would; McCain would; Palin would. Though I think Ron Paul would've done it far less. He is by far one of the most liberal of his party. I do not agree with his views on State's rights with respect to marriage. I think that the 14th Amendment guarantees our 1st Amendment rights in every state. 'Sanctity' of Marriage laws are unconstitutional. No state should have the power to deny you rights according to the 14th Amendment of the constitution.
The point is, both parties have their strengths and weaknesses. I feel McCain's are detrimental to the country and I would much rather vote for Obama. Ron Paul lost so you are just gonna have to get over it and choose from what is <u>left</u>. (hint hint)
-D-
All I have ever stood for is the freedoms afforded to us by the Constitution. The Majority Republican party are Christians with an agenda to legislate Christian dogma. Many of these laws rape the 1st Amendment. From their stance on drugs and immigration to their stance on same sex marriage, abortion and many other moral/social issues, Republicans are controlled by masses of Christians. I will never vote for someone that pushes Christian agenda to that degree.
Obama is a Christian, but the majority of Democrats are liberal minded and put the views of a diverse populous over a select group like Christians. Obama wouldn't push a Christian agenda. Ron Paul would; McCain would; Palin would. Though I think Ron Paul would've done it far less. He is by far one of the most liberal of his party. I do not agree with his views on State's rights with respect to marriage. I think that the 14th Amendment guarantees our 1st Amendment rights in every state. 'Sanctity' of Marriage laws are unconstitutional. No state should have the power to deny you rights according to the 14th Amendment of the constitution.
The point is, both parties have their strengths and weaknesses. I feel McCain's are detrimental to the country and I would much rather vote for Obama. Ron Paul lost so you are just gonna have to get over it and choose from what is <u>left</u>. (hint hint)
-D-
Because I believe in balance in all things, even though I don't have religion, I would not want to live in a world without it.
Can you imagine the average Joe without his religious "Guilt, shame, and fear"?
Its the only thing that keep some people from being totally "evil."
now don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean I want to be converted, but I say if we completely wiped religion out this world would be a sad place to live.
For someone who wants to live without religious influence you sure picked an ODD state to become a citizen...and a red state? What were you thinking?
I'm sorry you have so much time to dwell, but the issues that are important to me really need to be solved first. Abortion, gay marriage, gun control etc. etc. will ALWAYS be an issue, but NEVER solved.
Right now the issues that are important to me are what I'm focusing on...health care, education, the economy, the war in Iraq etc. etc.
Can you imagine the average Joe without his religious "Guilt, shame, and fear"?
Its the only thing that keep some people from being totally "evil."
now don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean I want to be converted, but I say if we completely wiped religion out this world would be a sad place to live.
For someone who wants to live without religious influence you sure picked an ODD state to become a citizen...and a red state? What were you thinking?
I'm sorry you have so much time to dwell, but the issues that are important to me really need to be solved first. Abortion, gay marriage, gun control etc. etc. will ALWAYS be an issue, but NEVER solved.
Right now the issues that are important to me are what I'm focusing on...health care, education, the economy, the war in Iraq etc. etc.
TR you are wrong Obama is NOT a christian he is a MUSLIM according the Islamic law it is forbidden to convert so what makes you think he is NOT a MUSLIM? If in fact he did indeed convert to Christianity don't you think the Muslim world would have been screaming for him to be punished? Why has no MUSLIM condemned him for converting to Christianity? Maybe it's because they know something we do not know. Where is your proof he has denounced his Islamic Faith? I wish someone would poll radical Muslims and see who they would like to see as the next president of the United States I would be willing to bet they choose OBAMA!
McCain/Palin08 It's the right thing to do!
Norm&Sharon
McCain/Palin08 It's the right thing to do!
Norm&Sharon
<h5>AMPUSSY,</h5>
Again, I don't care if he is Muslim or not. My point is that he isn't pushing his religion, whether he is a Christian or Muslim, in his politics. Furthermore, he has said that he is Christian. Just like McCain. Why should we trust McCain's word any more regarding his faith. There are terrorists in both groups. hmmmm. I don't trust Christians anymore tha I trust Muslims. You are putting weight, where I do not. <b>I DON'T CARE ABOUT HIS RELIGION!</b> I am an atheist, it's all a bunch of bullshit, that should have no bearing on government. PERIOD!
<h5>CLASSY,</h5>
you wrote:
<hr>
<font color="4e6dab">"Can you imagine the average Joe without his religious "Guilt, shame, and fear"?</font>
<hr>
All those exist for me and I am not religious. You don't need religion to have ethics. Give me a break. People can live under a secular ethical government that practice human and civil rights. MORALS have no place in government, else you have to choose who's dogma they derive, negating the freedom of religion. You can't practice freedom of religion in a civilized society, if you have to adhere to someone else's dogma by law.
you also wrote:
<hr>
<font color="4e6dab">"I'm sorry you have so much time to dwell, but the issues that are important to me really need to be solved first. Abortion, gay marriage, gun control etc. etc. will ALWAYS be an issue, but NEVER solved.
Right now the issues that are important to me are what I'm focusing on...health care, education, the economy, the war in Iraq etc. etc. "</font>
<hr>
Abortion, Gay Rights and Gun Control can be resolved as much as any other issue. It's just as hard to get people to come together on any other issue when they are so divided. For instance, Gay Rights are no different than rights for women or minorities (of that label still applies). Gay Marriage should be allowed, because there is nothing wrong with it. The only opposition is unconstitutional laws respecting the Christians Church. That issue can be resolved. It is just as important to some as education, the economy or the war.
Since you brought up education, economy and the war, let's talk about those. I don't want my kids being taught 'Abstinence Only' in sex education. I want them taught about birth control. Furthermore, McCain admits that the economy isn't his strong point. Last but surely not least, the war in Iraq. McCain, despite his veteranship/hood and his POW experience has yet to show that he is a foreign affairs expert, diplomat or a strategy master anymore than Obama.
Bush fucked up our foreign relations, made us look like idiots and has wasted trillions on this fruitless endeavor. McCain is willing to continue this idiot's policies <b>ADMITTEDLY!!!!</b> I am not spewing Democrat Propaganda, I am just reporting the facts that I have seen and heard from McCains own mouth. He is too old, he picked a moron for VP and I am not fuckin voting for him.. AND THAT IS FUCKING THAT!
<h5>Everyone Else,</h5>
<input type="button" value="Click Here" onClick="location.href='groups.php?action=addjoin&groupid=284'"> to Join the the "Free Thinkers" Group. To return to the group at anytime, just click on "Groups" on the main menu bar. Free Thinkers is dedicated to controversial topics and free thought. Come check it out.
-D-
<div style="width:150px; background-color:#000000;"><b><font color="#ff0000">OBAMA </font><script>document.write('<img src="ht'+'tp://w'+'ww.clickfire.com/images/flags/us.gif">')</script><font color="#ffffff"> BIDEN</font><font color="#0198e1"> 2008</font></b></div>
Again, I don't care if he is Muslim or not. My point is that he isn't pushing his religion, whether he is a Christian or Muslim, in his politics. Furthermore, he has said that he is Christian. Just like McCain. Why should we trust McCain's word any more regarding his faith. There are terrorists in both groups. hmmmm. I don't trust Christians anymore tha I trust Muslims. You are putting weight, where I do not. <b>I DON'T CARE ABOUT HIS RELIGION!</b> I am an atheist, it's all a bunch of bullshit, that should have no bearing on government. PERIOD!
<h5>CLASSY,</h5>
you wrote:
<hr>
<font color="4e6dab">"Can you imagine the average Joe without his religious "Guilt, shame, and fear"?</font>
<hr>
All those exist for me and I am not religious. You don't need religion to have ethics. Give me a break. People can live under a secular ethical government that practice human and civil rights. MORALS have no place in government, else you have to choose who's dogma they derive, negating the freedom of religion. You can't practice freedom of religion in a civilized society, if you have to adhere to someone else's dogma by law.
you also wrote:
<hr>
<font color="4e6dab">"I'm sorry you have so much time to dwell, but the issues that are important to me really need to be solved first. Abortion, gay marriage, gun control etc. etc. will ALWAYS be an issue, but NEVER solved.
Right now the issues that are important to me are what I'm focusing on...health care, education, the economy, the war in Iraq etc. etc. "</font>
<hr>
Abortion, Gay Rights and Gun Control can be resolved as much as any other issue. It's just as hard to get people to come together on any other issue when they are so divided. For instance, Gay Rights are no different than rights for women or minorities (of that label still applies). Gay Marriage should be allowed, because there is nothing wrong with it. The only opposition is unconstitutional laws respecting the Christians Church. That issue can be resolved. It is just as important to some as education, the economy or the war.
Since you brought up education, economy and the war, let's talk about those. I don't want my kids being taught 'Abstinence Only' in sex education. I want them taught about birth control. Furthermore, McCain admits that the economy isn't his strong point. Last but surely not least, the war in Iraq. McCain, despite his veteranship/hood and his POW experience has yet to show that he is a foreign affairs expert, diplomat or a strategy master anymore than Obama.
Bush fucked up our foreign relations, made us look like idiots and has wasted trillions on this fruitless endeavor. McCain is willing to continue this idiot's policies <b>ADMITTEDLY!!!!</b> I am not spewing Democrat Propaganda, I am just reporting the facts that I have seen and heard from McCains own mouth. He is too old, he picked a moron for VP and I am not fuckin voting for him.. AND THAT IS FUCKING THAT!
<h5>Everyone Else,</h5>
<input type="button" value="Click Here" onClick="location.href='groups.php?action=addjoin&groupid=284'"> to Join the the "Free Thinkers" Group. To return to the group at anytime, just click on "Groups" on the main menu bar. Free Thinkers is dedicated to controversial topics and free thought. Come check it out.
-D-
<div style="width:150px; background-color:#000000;"><b><font color="#ff0000">OBAMA </font><script>document.write('<img src="ht'+'tp://w'+'ww.clickfire.com/images/flags/us.gif">')</script><font color="#ffffff"> BIDEN</font><font color="#0198e1"> 2008</font></b></div>
Classy, you make a very good point that I have not heard before. People living in fear because of their religion and that might be all that keeps them from committing a crime. While religion is not a big part of my life I sure would hate to see the world without it. Thank you, I learned something from your post.
To me, it does not matter if McCain is "eligible" because he has more then shown his loyalty to this country. I think this topic was brought up just for a conversation piece. Discussing it with a friend he brought this point up. His father was in the military, an american stationed in Turkey. His mother was also an american but since he was born in Turkey he is by that country considered a Turk. Because he did not join the Turk military at the age of 16, I believe he said, he is considered a criminal there and can not go there or he faces the risk of being arrested. Despite him being a proud citizen of the USA, very much caring for this country and its well being, he is still considered a Turk.
I think Obama falls into the same situation my friend does being born a muslim but not practicing it. I am tired of all the technicalities, let`s just get the best person in there and turn this country around.
To me, it does not matter if McCain is "eligible" because he has more then shown his loyalty to this country. I think this topic was brought up just for a conversation piece. Discussing it with a friend he brought this point up. His father was in the military, an american stationed in Turkey. His mother was also an american but since he was born in Turkey he is by that country considered a Turk. Because he did not join the Turk military at the age of 16, I believe he said, he is considered a criminal there and can not go there or he faces the risk of being arrested. Despite him being a proud citizen of the USA, very much caring for this country and its well being, he is still considered a Turk.
I think Obama falls into the same situation my friend does being born a muslim but not practicing it. I am tired of all the technicalities, let`s just get the best person in there and turn this country around.
TR I have said before it is not the fact he is Muslim it is the fact he is Muslim with radical ties read his books and see how his mentors were all against the "whites" then his associations with the likes of Rev Wright and Ayers (who had plans to blow up all kinds of places in our country).
I'm sure before election day we will hear of other radical ties as well. We know you are going to VOTE for him but quit acting like you are some Atheist God who knows all you are never wrong and most are getting tired of the way you use slanderous comments to others in the forum.
Keep it at a civil debate without all the name calling and this is not just directed at you it is directed to ALL who can't debate without using all kinds of profanity it is getting old really fast however; the fact you are never wrong was directed at you the smart man is the one who admits his mistakes yet we have yet to ever read anywhere in any forum where you have said "Imade a mistake" oh yes that is right you DON"T ever make any mistakes just everyone else makes mistakes must be great being PERFECT.
McCain/Palin08
Norm&Sharon
I'm sure before election day we will hear of other radical ties as well. We know you are going to VOTE for him but quit acting like you are some Atheist God who knows all you are never wrong and most are getting tired of the way you use slanderous comments to others in the forum.
Keep it at a civil debate without all the name calling and this is not just directed at you it is directed to ALL who can't debate without using all kinds of profanity it is getting old really fast however; the fact you are never wrong was directed at you the smart man is the one who admits his mistakes yet we have yet to ever read anywhere in any forum where you have said "Imade a mistake" oh yes that is right you DON"T ever make any mistakes just everyone else makes mistakes must be great being PERFECT.
McCain/Palin08
Norm&Sharon
Isn't it interesting that you can find whatever you want on the Internet. I found this showing that OBAMA did refuse to put his hand on his heart and refused to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
Take a look. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp
Also found that him and his wife were not proud to be American's.
Here is the link for that. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp
Interesting what "truth's" are out there.
Just showing both sides of the coin so to speak. You need to be educated on all facts before deciding to choose a president.
I suggest you research all aspects of accusations before making an informed decision.
Take a look. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp
Also found that him and his wife were not proud to be American's.
Here is the link for that. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp
Interesting what "truth's" are out there.
Just showing both sides of the coin so to speak. You need to be educated on all facts before deciding to choose a president.
I suggest you research all aspects of accusations before making an informed decision.
Obama also had an Indonesian Passport at one pointin his life. How can you have a passport from another country without being a citizen of that country? I have stated before that I do not think either candidate is a good choice for president, and unfortunately our country will continue on a downhill slope even after the election. We need to look at the policy and legislation makers of this country and replace them if we expect anything to change. Our politicians are in it for themselves and the payoffs of the lobbyist and special interes groups. No President, not Obama or McCain will be able to accomplish anything with the congress that we currently have sitting on the Hill.
Don't worry the bums on the hill will be thrown out there will be a "HOUSE" cleaning come next year! That is those that have not been brought up on some kind of corrupt,fraud,or ethic charges once Sarha is put in charge of "shaking up washington" watch the congressional bums run for cover! One thing for sure is we have to rid Congress of the two do nothing leaders Reid and Pelosi!
McCain/Palin 08 (Friends don't let Friends vote Democrat)
Norm
McCain/Palin 08 (Friends don't let Friends vote Democrat)
Norm
Natural born and Naturalized are two different things.
Not at the time it wasn't. It was consider the Republic of Panama.