Can you be in both life styles......
Alot of people out side of this life style has told me Swinging/Polyamory are the same!!
I Just want to hear what you have to say....
"Polyamory (from Greek
Alot of people out side of this life style has told me Swinging/Polyamory are the same!!
I Just want to hear what you have to say....
"Polyamory (from Greek
The way I understand, is that Polyamory refers to a level of commitment to another entity, whether it be a single or a couple, outside of your own couple relationship. That also depends on your position in it all. That is, if you are a single and you are the addition to couples relationship. Polyamory, to me, is when you are looking beyong just sex with the individual or couple and you wish to make a commitment to them. Hence the "love" aspect of the work.
Swinging is just a generalization of engaging in sexual encounters with other people outside of the boundaries of the social and moral norms of society; if there is such a thing. Anyway, that's my take.
-D-
Swinging is just a generalization of engaging in sexual encounters with other people outside of the boundaries of the social and moral norms of society; if there is such a thing. Anyway, that's my take.
-D-
My take on this, right or wrong, is this:
Swinging is about enjoying all the pleasure that life has to offer without the constraints of religious or secularly imposed morals. As long as no one is hurt in the process then all is good. Everyone sets there own boundaries, and it is important that all involved respect them.
Polyamory is related to swinging but with some major differences. First poly is about being monogomous within a plural relationship. What that means is that even though you are involved with more than one or two others sexually, you and they are also commited to each and every other person within your group. These groups can be a married couple and another female or male, 2 couples, or I have heard of one group that tried to start consisting of about 10-15 members some married some singles.
I am possibly rambling and will end this now.
Swinging is about enjoying all the pleasure that life has to offer without the constraints of religious or secularly imposed morals. As long as no one is hurt in the process then all is good. Everyone sets there own boundaries, and it is important that all involved respect them.
Polyamory is related to swinging but with some major differences. First poly is about being monogomous within a plural relationship. What that means is that even though you are involved with more than one or two others sexually, you and they are also commited to each and every other person within your group. These groups can be a married couple and another female or male, 2 couples, or I have heard of one group that tried to start consisting of about 10-15 members some married some singles.
I am possibly rambling and will end this now.
Much of what has been said I agree with, but I do know poly couples in the lifestyle. Their swinging is a bit more complicated as far as the decision process because I would imagine that such a decision would need to be agreed upon by all partners involved.
The biggest difference I think between regular swingers and those who are involved in poly relationships is while most people who swing would shun the development of emotional ties to other swingers thinking it would be the doom of their spousal (primary) relationship, those who are also involved in or those who are open to the possibility of poly relationships would welcome the development of additional relationships for what they are knowing there is neither a need to replace their spouse or run off with the person they have formed this new relationship with. It does add further complication to their life, but it can also enrich it tremendously.
My .02 from an observers standpoint.
-SG
The biggest difference I think between regular swingers and those who are involved in poly relationships is while most people who swing would shun the development of emotional ties to other swingers thinking it would be the doom of their spousal (primary) relationship, those who are also involved in or those who are open to the possibility of poly relationships would welcome the development of additional relationships for what they are knowing there is neither a need to replace their spouse or run off with the person they have formed this new relationship with. It does add further complication to their life, but it can also enrich it tremendously.
My .02 from an observers standpoint.
-SG
We agree, Swinging and Polyamory are very different. Even though we are involved in both, we usually don't mix the two. They Poly lifestyle is difficult, and takes great consideration of all the emotions of everyone involved. As Swinging has different levels there are also different levels of polyamory. And all levels should be respected . They are both very freeing, and full filling.
Debi & Lang
Debi & Lang
We think the problem is that people see the equation "sex = love". IOW, if I have sex with you, I must love you. Therefore polyamory and swinging are the same. After all, if I don't love you, I won't be having sex with you.
The way I see it, swinging is like a game of golf or tennis. I might play a game with you but I don't love you. Similarly, I might have sex with you but I don't love you.
Poly, IMO, is basically having a relationship with that other person and sex is involved on some level. Kinda like "I'm in love with you and oh, BTW, lets make love"
The way we see it, swinging is about exchanging sexual partners for recreation sex. In an orgy situation at a party, you can have sex with that person with zero words exchanged. In a poly relationship, there is a real connection going on besides just sex. Sex becomes incidental just like it is with married couples.
With swinging, there is no emotional attachment. Is that a good thing? Well, it depends. We need to understand the very simple nature of things. We do this to avoid that. That is human nature. Many swingers DON'T want emotional attachments and avoid them because of the complications they cause in the first one. Are there benefits to the attachments? You bet. Is there a price to pay for that benefit? But of course. Is it worth it to you? That depends on your viewpoint.
In our life as a couple, the problems poly cause BASED ON OUR OPINION (your's may vary and no right and wrong here) do not outweigh the payoff. IOW, we don't think the benefits of a poly relationship are worth the problems it creates based on our opinion. YMMV
The way I see it, swinging is like a game of golf or tennis. I might play a game with you but I don't love you. Similarly, I might have sex with you but I don't love you.
Poly, IMO, is basically having a relationship with that other person and sex is involved on some level. Kinda like "I'm in love with you and oh, BTW, lets make love"
The way we see it, swinging is about exchanging sexual partners for recreation sex. In an orgy situation at a party, you can have sex with that person with zero words exchanged. In a poly relationship, there is a real connection going on besides just sex. Sex becomes incidental just like it is with married couples.
With swinging, there is no emotional attachment. Is that a good thing? Well, it depends. We need to understand the very simple nature of things. We do this to avoid that. That is human nature. Many swingers DON'T want emotional attachments and avoid them because of the complications they cause in the first one. Are there benefits to the attachments? You bet. Is there a price to pay for that benefit? But of course. Is it worth it to you? That depends on your viewpoint.
In our life as a couple, the problems poly cause BASED ON OUR OPINION (your's may vary and no right and wrong here) do not outweigh the payoff. IOW, we don't think the benefits of a poly relationship are worth the problems it creates based on our opinion. YMMV
I agree on the difference between swinging and poly relationships. Both have their advantages at times, and their disadvantages. They are separate things, not to be intertwined, as some ppl do. Just like some swingers will do only certain things, I think that poly has many different ways to make it work, you just have to find the right ppl to be in that type of relatioship with.
I would think it would be hard to combine swinging and a poly relationship, but then I have not really tried it. Being a single female, I either get contacted by single or married guys wanting a good time, or usually some guy wanting a second female for his "harem". (Sorry guys, but just cause we are in Utah does not mean women won't want a 'harem' too! IMO). Dont get me wrong, I love sex, no strings thing is good, but is also nice to know someone cares about you and you care about someone too.
Sorry, starting to ramble, so will go before I make more of idiot of myself than I am..
I would think it would be hard to combine swinging and a poly relationship, but then I have not really tried it. Being a single female, I either get contacted by single or married guys wanting a good time, or usually some guy wanting a second female for his "harem". (Sorry guys, but just cause we are in Utah does not mean women won't want a 'harem' too! IMO). Dont get me wrong, I love sex, no strings thing is good, but is also nice to know someone cares about you and you care about someone too.
Sorry, starting to ramble, so will go before I make more of idiot of myself than I am..
I still maintain that the best way to look at it is "swinging" is the most generalized way of saying you "swing" from the societal norm. If one were to compare fucking with eating. It would be like saying that traditional "moral" monogamous sexual relationships are like Domestic American Food (hotdogs, hamburger etc.) and swinging is all food that is ethic or foreign. Here are some comparisons...
Soft swap = UK food
Full swap = French Cuisine
Girl on girl = Italian Cuisine
Polymory = Arabic "Harem" Cuisine
and on and on.
I do not consider myself a "swinger", but a "libertine". My views reach far beyond the sexual aspect. Swinging is in essence <i>sexual libertinism</i>.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertine
-D-
Soft swap = UK food
Full swap = French Cuisine
Girl on girl = Italian Cuisine
Polymory = Arabic "Harem" Cuisine
and on and on.
I do not consider myself a "swinger", but a "libertine". My views reach far beyond the sexual aspect. Swinging is in essence <i>sexual libertinism</i>.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertine
-D-
That would be a general definition. However, sometimes the devil is in the details. With that definition, poly couples would be termed in the same group as swingers under the banner of libertine. So would soft swingers, etc, etc. We feel the definitions are kinda important because it causes awkwardness and waste of time if we don't know what we are getting into. For instance, if we talk and you are soft swingers, we now know we won't get anywhere fast because we are not into soft swinging. You, OTOH, will not have the awkward moment where we get together and at the last minute, we do something you don't like. IMO the labels help us filter out what we want from what we don't want.
Exactly, so instead of saying your a swinger, you should use specifics. Like we are full-swap or we are soft-swap or we are seek polyamory. We are all swingers. It's like saying we are all human, but we have uniquity in ethnicity.
I agree that labels help. However, the label swinger doesn't apply to full-swap. It's simply not the way the word was intended. It's not what it means. "Full swap" means "full swap". Swinger means someone that deviates from the moral a social norms of their society with regard to sex. Libertine encompasses swinging because it falls under the scope of being morally unrestrained. I am a libertine by definition and swinging is only one aspect of that word.
There was a couple here not too long ago that was spreading intolerance by telling others they weren't swingers because they didn't "full swap". I called bullshit. This is far from the truth. I think tactics like that are used to pressure people that aren't comfortable with full swap into swapping. <b>WE ARE ALL SWINGERS.</b>
-D-
I agree that labels help. However, the label swinger doesn't apply to full-swap. It's simply not the way the word was intended. It's not what it means. "Full swap" means "full swap". Swinger means someone that deviates from the moral a social norms of their society with regard to sex. Libertine encompasses swinging because it falls under the scope of being morally unrestrained. I am a libertine by definition and swinging is only one aspect of that word.
There was a couple here not too long ago that was spreading intolerance by telling others they weren't swingers because they didn't "full swap". I called bullshit. This is far from the truth. I think tactics like that are used to pressure people that aren't comfortable with full swap into swapping. <b>WE ARE ALL SWINGERS.</b>
-D-
Know what TR. I think you have a very good point.
Poly is pretty much a multi-party marriage (more than two) and includes all the commitments that go with a marriage.
Swinging is "recreational sex" irreguardless of what other relationship you might be in, ie single married, poly etc.
The one thing that I disagree with in the thread is that swinging does not or should not involve a relationship. Rather it is the LEVEL of relationship/commitment that is the question. If you have friends, especially close friends (and I hope you all do) that is a relationship. "Normal society" says you must be in a much higher level of relationship/commitment ie married to have sex. Swingers say you can be on a good friends, friends, or even just acquaintences and have sex. All of these are relationships and I would submit for your consideration that there are a lot of swingers that enjoy getting together with the same people multiple times and also enjoy other things together outside of hopping into bed with each other. That all is a relationship but lower level of commitment. So maybe the commitment level is really the demarkation.
We swing and really enjoy it. We have friends that are also swing partners and we enjoy them both as swingers and friends. We have friends that don't swing and we enjoy them. Those are all relationships, but the commitment is to friendship and or swinging. Does this make sence?
Swinging is "recreational sex" irreguardless of what other relationship you might be in, ie single married, poly etc.
The one thing that I disagree with in the thread is that swinging does not or should not involve a relationship. Rather it is the LEVEL of relationship/commitment that is the question. If you have friends, especially close friends (and I hope you all do) that is a relationship. "Normal society" says you must be in a much higher level of relationship/commitment ie married to have sex. Swingers say you can be on a good friends, friends, or even just acquaintences and have sex. All of these are relationships and I would submit for your consideration that there are a lot of swingers that enjoy getting together with the same people multiple times and also enjoy other things together outside of hopping into bed with each other. That all is a relationship but lower level of commitment. So maybe the commitment level is really the demarkation.
We swing and really enjoy it. We have friends that are also swing partners and we enjoy them both as swingers and friends. We have friends that don't swing and we enjoy them. Those are all relationships, but the commitment is to friendship and or swinging. Does this make sence?
AKLIM69,
I'm sure many here would never thought that they would read such a statement. LOL
I'm sure many here would never thought that they would read such a statement. LOL
After having tried both worlds we've simplified it to:
Poly is a relationship with the possibility of sex.
Swing is sex with the possibility of a relationship.
Poly is a relationship with the possibility of sex.
Swing is sex with the possibility of a relationship.
DAR_DORN,
Swinging should be whatever all the consenting parties want it to be. If that involves a commitment, then so be it. I for one am not seeking this, but will not stand in anyone else's way.
-D-
Swinging should be whatever all the consenting parties want it to be. If that involves a commitment, then so be it. I for one am not seeking this, but will not stand in anyone else's way.
-D-
TEQUILAROSE
You are right spot on. The difference is that poly requires the relationship/commitment. Swinging doesn't..
Swinging is almost always a relationship with minimal commitment (commitment/relationship is wide open to the participants to dictate as they wish) required since the participants are usually already in a committed relationship. Here it branches, and there are three ways to go.
1 Swingers that are in a committed relationship (married or SO or single) and don't want someone that would interfere with that base relationship. Just enjoy some recreational sex with others (the vast majority). If they want to grow it beyond, then go for it and enjoy. (Least restritive of the bunch)
2 Cheaters and yes boys and girls, there are a lot of gals that fit this catagorie even if they are way outnumbered by males.
3 Married or otherwise in a not good relationship looking to explore more and find everything hunky dorie again. NOT A GOOD place to go.
Swinging is a place to go for recreational sex and then make the relationship/friendship whatever you want out of it. Anywhere from none to good friends.
You are right spot on. The difference is that poly requires the relationship/commitment. Swinging doesn't..
Swinging is almost always a relationship with minimal commitment (commitment/relationship is wide open to the participants to dictate as they wish) required since the participants are usually already in a committed relationship. Here it branches, and there are three ways to go.
1 Swingers that are in a committed relationship (married or SO or single) and don't want someone that would interfere with that base relationship. Just enjoy some recreational sex with others (the vast majority). If they want to grow it beyond, then go for it and enjoy. (Least restritive of the bunch)
2 Cheaters and yes boys and girls, there are a lot of gals that fit this catagorie even if they are way outnumbered by males.
3 Married or otherwise in a not good relationship looking to explore more and find everything hunky dorie again. NOT A GOOD place to go.
Swinging is a place to go for recreational sex and then make the relationship/friendship whatever you want out of it. Anywhere from none to good friends.
DAR,
Swinging is a generalized word that means to have sexual relations outside of the societal norm. The word encompasses polyamory, swapping, girl on girl etc. Polymory is a level of swinging. If you look at swinging as a gradient spectrum that starts on the lighter side with voyeurism and exhibition and slowly graduates into soft swap and girl on girl and then eventually into full swap and even deeper you have polyamory where you seek more than just the sexual aspect and find that you crave the emotional as well. It's all swinging. If there are poly couples among us that's ok. They're just as acceptable as a soft swapper or voyeur. Swing is a generalization and polyamory is a specific aspect of the larger world called swinging. Your #1 is called a full swapper. It's all different levels of involvement in the lifestyle. It all depend how far you are willing to go down the rabbit hole; for each of us, it differs.
Check these out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swinging
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertine
-D-
Swinging is a generalized word that means to have sexual relations outside of the societal norm. The word encompasses polyamory, swapping, girl on girl etc. Polymory is a level of swinging. If you look at swinging as a gradient spectrum that starts on the lighter side with voyeurism and exhibition and slowly graduates into soft swap and girl on girl and then eventually into full swap and even deeper you have polyamory where you seek more than just the sexual aspect and find that you crave the emotional as well. It's all swinging. If there are poly couples among us that's ok. They're just as acceptable as a soft swapper or voyeur. Swing is a generalization and polyamory is a specific aspect of the larger world called swinging. Your #1 is called a full swapper. It's all different levels of involvement in the lifestyle. It all depend how far you are willing to go down the rabbit hole; for each of us, it differs.
Check these out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swinging
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertine
-D-
Don, despite your determination to toss poly in with the generalized swinging category, I think you're overlooking the fact that poly relationships can and do exist without the inclusion of sex ever. Its an emotional commitment regardless of sex being involved or not. Sex can be involved, but it doesn't have to be.
The very general definitions for poly pale in comparison to actually hearing/reading about it from those who are actually involved and willing to share the inner workings of their relationships.
-SG
The very general definitions for poly pale in comparison to actually hearing/reading about it from those who are actually involved and willing to share the inner workings of their relationships.
-SG
At the risk of being "further" outside the "norm" for swingers. I think knowing a person you are planning or wanting to have sex with is critical, for a number of reasons that are important to me and my partner. They are health, psychological compatibility, physical compatibility and chemistry or attraction.
At least 2 of the above require some level of emotional attachment. At least in our case. We like the emotional attachment and feeling connected with the other couple. In fact meeting for just sex alone seems repulsive. Well, in most cases. LOL I doubt the above is poly; but I'm not sure what is, unless it is polyandry or polygamy.
Different strokes [sic] for different folks.
Jerome and Vickie
At least 2 of the above require some level of emotional attachment. At least in our case. We like the emotional attachment and feeling connected with the other couple. In fact meeting for just sex alone seems repulsive. Well, in most cases. LOL I doubt the above is poly; but I'm not sure what is, unless it is polyandry or polygamy.
Different strokes [sic] for different folks.
Jerome and Vickie
I was looking through the forum subjects and when I came upon this one and looked I wondered why I hadn't commented, since I am a swinger and am poly for quite a few years and I am involved with 2 women as secondary relationships. Someone said "poly is about being monogomous within a plural relationship." The term monogamous doesn't even enter into poly. Poly relationships can be primary, secondary or tertiary. Further people can be added on add-infinitem, so long as everyone involved in particularly primary and soemtimes secondary relationships are consentual about that aspect. In tertiary relationships it is necessary that that they be aware of all other relaionships and OK with that concept.
I also belong to a Poly group that is not like Yahoo or AOL groups. It is privately owned and is open to poly and poly friendly people. While I know that a small number of the group does swing, they do not advertise. Poly people generally take issue with swinging as be strictly recreational SEX! and no love where as poly, supposedly, is love based not necessarily any sex....but sex usually is involved at some level. The attitude is that swinging is not a good thing that swinging is diametrically opposed to poly.
We definitely do swing and I have 2 secondary relationships. One could be a primary if she could get over the hurt from a failed..abusive marriage of 18 years. We met thru swinging and will continue until I can't walk talk or motovate. My wife while not professing to be poly is in love with that lady as well as I am. We would invite her to join us as a primary relationship and have mentioned that to her... She is afraid to "lay my heart out and have it stomped on again".
So while there are some similarities in swinging and poly in that more and more swingers are looking for relationships, i.e., "friends with benefits" ; "Friends in and out of the bedroom". These friendships are based on attraction and sex after the attraction. Poly people take the concept that poly is based on loving someone and if sex happens then OK, but that love is the key and sex is at best secondary. I don't have any problems with poly and swinging. We have met people while swinging and I have fallen in love or they have fallen in love with my wife or me.
Swinging and poly are definitely compatable..at least for us.
I also belong to a Poly group that is not like Yahoo or AOL groups. It is privately owned and is open to poly and poly friendly people. While I know that a small number of the group does swing, they do not advertise. Poly people generally take issue with swinging as be strictly recreational SEX! and no love where as poly, supposedly, is love based not necessarily any sex....but sex usually is involved at some level. The attitude is that swinging is not a good thing that swinging is diametrically opposed to poly.
We definitely do swing and I have 2 secondary relationships. One could be a primary if she could get over the hurt from a failed..abusive marriage of 18 years. We met thru swinging and will continue until I can't walk talk or motovate. My wife while not professing to be poly is in love with that lady as well as I am. We would invite her to join us as a primary relationship and have mentioned that to her... She is afraid to "lay my heart out and have it stomped on again".
So while there are some similarities in swinging and poly in that more and more swingers are looking for relationships, i.e., "friends with benefits" ; "Friends in and out of the bedroom". These friendships are based on attraction and sex after the attraction. Poly people take the concept that poly is based on loving someone and if sex happens then OK, but that love is the key and sex is at best secondary. I don't have any problems with poly and swinging. We have met people while swinging and I have fallen in love or they have fallen in love with my wife or me.
Swinging and poly are definitely compatable..at least for us.
Posted By: XPLORR94248 Reply posted on:
Nov 10, 2007 - 12:11 pm
Poly people generally take issue with swinging as be strictly recreational SEX! and no love where as poly, supposedly, is love based not necessarily any sex....but sex usually is involved at some level. The attitude is that swinging is not a good thing that swinging is diametrically opposed to poly.
So while there are some similarities in swinging and poly in that more and more swingers are looking for relationships, i.e., "friends with benefits" ; "Friends in and out of the bedroom". These friendships are based on attraction and sex after the attraction. Poly people take the concept that poly is based on loving someone and if sex happens then OK, but that love is the key and sex is at best secondary.
I would say that swinging (full swap, soft swap) IS recreational sex. It ISN'T about falling in love with someone. That poly people would think swinging is bad because it is diametrically opposed to poly doesn't surprise me one bit. Kinda like me being a Grand Dragon of the KKK thinking that people who even can think of having a relationship with a black person are sick in the head. To a poly person, the only difference between them and a "normal" person is that they have more than one person with whom they have love in the relationship. "Normal" people also think spouse swapping is a bad idea too. Again, no surprise.
I would say that swinging and poly have only one similarity and that is that they are having sex with somebody that they are not legally married to and the spouse is fine with it. Beyond that, I don't see the similarities.
Nov 10, 2007 - 12:11 pm
Poly people generally take issue with swinging as be strictly recreational SEX! and no love where as poly, supposedly, is love based not necessarily any sex....but sex usually is involved at some level. The attitude is that swinging is not a good thing that swinging is diametrically opposed to poly.
So while there are some similarities in swinging and poly in that more and more swingers are looking for relationships, i.e., "friends with benefits" ; "Friends in and out of the bedroom". These friendships are based on attraction and sex after the attraction. Poly people take the concept that poly is based on loving someone and if sex happens then OK, but that love is the key and sex is at best secondary.
I would say that swinging (full swap, soft swap) IS recreational sex. It ISN'T about falling in love with someone. That poly people would think swinging is bad because it is diametrically opposed to poly doesn't surprise me one bit. Kinda like me being a Grand Dragon of the KKK thinking that people who even can think of having a relationship with a black person are sick in the head. To a poly person, the only difference between them and a "normal" person is that they have more than one person with whom they have love in the relationship. "Normal" people also think spouse swapping is a bad idea too. Again, no surprise.
I would say that swinging and poly have only one similarity and that is that they are having sex with somebody that they are not legally married to and the spouse is fine with it. Beyond that, I don't see the similarities.