Swingers on Swingular - Swingers Forum - Conspiracy Theories & Unorthodox Perspectives

It's very long and very deep. If you get a chance, watch it. You should set aside about 2 hours. Very interesting perspective. Would love to hear your perspectives. Please give your input. If you have issues with this content, don't bother with it. I also posted it in the group, if you prefer to give your two cents there.

<script>document.write('<embed src="ht'+'tp://video.google.com/googleplayer.s'+'wf?docId=5547481422995115331&hl=en" width="591" height="443" style="width:600px; height:500px;" id="VideoPlayback" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" flashvars=""></embed>');</script>
courtesy of:

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com

The truth is the events and images portrayed in Zeitgeist are not conspiracy but actually fact.
Alot of directors today have used these orwellian themes (that the globalists hold as thier purpose in life) to wake up society, unfortunately biased media and government has already developed and prepared for these "uncooperative individuals" just like in "V for Vendetta"
sexual expression in an open forum such as this will not be as free anymore. NYPD spokesman
said " the internet is new afghanistan". That is an afront to us, all of us. The moral majority in this country is whats shaping alot of american politics, this moral majority is the most devout
following I have ever seen. In jesus camp the movie, a prominant leader in training young christians says she would like to see these young children being essentally martyrs for the cause.(that doesn't sound like radical fundamentalist thinking at all) The truth is the corruption reaches from the very top layer with teachers report students to the D.H.S for oppossing
bush propoganda to the very bottom of the dirt, using religious leaders to manipulate the faith of thier very own congregation to institute martial law. We are living in a burgeoning fascist
state, thats using the same methods Hitler did before he rose to supreme status. This is the proof

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2007/160807_quell_dissent.htm

copy and paste this .

As will any theory, I take it with a grain of salt. I must say though... a lot of the content portrayed in the film is very compelling.

-D-

The conspiracy theories should be taken with a (huge) grain of salt,
one should concentrate on verifiable facts. There are plenty of them!

The US is on its way to become a police state with (implanted?) ID for
everyone, the law becomes effective next year. The constitution has
been dismantled or rendered ineffective. All the preparations for
martial law have been made (executive orders and signing statements).
There are hundreds of concentration camps across US. The Habeas corpus
does not exist any more, one can be imprisoned at the discretion of
the authorities and tortured and held indefinitely.

The only things standing in the way is the 2nd amendment and 100mil
armed citizens.

The incoming monetary/economic collapse will most likely take care of
that problem. The FED (they are as federal as federal express and have
no reserves) and their counterparts across the globe have injected 1/3
$trillions last week since the markets have become locked due to
over-leveraged indebtedness (thanks to unrestricted credit expansion
world wide). Immediate collapse is expected. Nearly everybody will be
wiped out. We will have either deflationary depression or inflationary
depression (since the fate is in the hands of central bankers). The
bankers have created nearly $500 trillions of derivative bets on top
of $20 trillion of world economy. We are 25 years of future
production in debt!!

Listen to David Walker, Chief GAO comptroller (youtube). in the next
10 years or so over 60 mil. Americans will retire with no savings to
speak of. The social security is empty! Whatever savings they have and
whatever retirement accounts they have will be wiped out in the
collapse.

The US$ (actually federal reserve note) has officially lost 97% of its
value since FED inception in 1913 (read Griffin: The creature from
Jekyll island). The "US$" is worthless piece of paper, the only thing
propping up its fictitious value is the rest of the world who is
holding trillions of it, trying to exit (exchange) it for something
tangible. After that it will go the way of all paper currencies in the
history: toward 0. If you have any savings buy gold and silver and
take possession (and hide them). Gold and silver were and are money
(5000 years of history). It will not be the first time that the
government will try to confiscate (read executive order of 1933
declaring the constitutional money illegal!)

At that point it will most likely be replaced with another fake money:
Amero, and planned North American Union will destroy sovereignty of
Canada, USA and Mexico.

I could go on, sounds like fiction, but all this is *verifiable* on
the Internet (google is your friend). Steer away from TV and media,
they are spreading lies and mis-information. Listen to the only
*constitutional* presidential candidate: Ron Paul that is telling the
truth.

Here are few web sites to get you started:

http://dollarcollapse.com/
http://www.financialsense.com/

As you educate yourself you will discover others.

It is one way journey, like taking the red pill in "The Matrix".
The truth is unpleasant.

You can always take the blue pill and continue to live in the dream.

Good luck.

Cool thanks for the links. I realize that much of the content in the video is fact. However, some of the accusations they make are based upon theory. So I try and remain open-minded. However, I am compelled to study more to see just how much shit I can dig up.

-D-

That is true evil. People like John Edwards, Silvia Saint, The Pope.... All those individuals that sell something they are just as clueless about. Very well said 4SensualTimes... Very well said.

-D-

I've been moved profoundly many times by Frederick Nietzche. His philosophy on religion digs deep into the mind and soul, and brings to the surface the true question.. Faith. The word in in itself implies empty hope to me and always has. I have "faith" that I might win the lottery some day, but what is the reality? Religion, which I'm glad does exist, keeps the mindless and the followers content in living life with the hope of a better place. Without this, the world I believe would crumble. Without an eteranl exhaltation, what would keep the human race sanely organized and "afraid" to commit sin? The ramifications of life without religion are truly terrifying. Count your blessings and say your prayers to whoever it may be, for the ubiquity of religion in itself is faithful mob control..

As quoted by Nietzche:

"Christianity was from the beginning, essentially and fundamentally, life's nausea and disgust with life, merely concealed behind, masked by, dressed up as, faith in "another" or "better" life".

"As soon as a religion comes to dominate it has as its opponents all those who would have been its first disciples".

Mr. UtHot

Re religion, esp. Christianity.

Christianity is only 2,000 years old, while the civilization as we
know it is 12,000 years old, do you really think Christianity as a
later-comer to the religion scene has anything useful to say? As a
matter of fact, if you study ancient civilizations and religions,
Christianity essentially *stole* everything from their myths and
legends and packaged it to serve its political purposes.

One striking thing about ancient civilizations is that they sprung
simultaneously on all parts of the world, and essentially have nearly
identical myths and legends (great flood, darkness, etc.) and they all
have religions around Sun-God I have not had the time to dig dipper,
but, there is a paleontological event that coincides with the origin
of the civilization as we know it, it is called Pleistocene
extinction:

http://www.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/larson/lp_extinction.html
http://www.atlantisquest.com/Paleontology.html
http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/heywood/Geog358/endangr/Pleistocene/PleistoExt.htm

And guess what, it has been preceded by a carbon dioxide spike and
a global warming:

http://www.alley29.com/Timeline/timeline.html

Global warming has a lot more to do with a planetary movements and
alignment than human activity the politicians are trying to sell you.

My current speculative theory is that roughly every 12,000 years,
there is a planetary alignment that maximizes the solar activity. Sun
reverses its magnetic poles regularly every 11.8x years, the Earth
however resists the reversal most of the time (its gravitational force
being stronger than magnetic). However, depending on the planetary
alignment and the position of the Earth in the Solar system, the Earth
gravity can be reduced by gravitational alignment of other planets. If
this happens while Sun reverses its magnetic poles, it is very likely
that the Earth gravitational force will not be able to resist magnetic
force and Earth will reverse its magnetic poles. Such an event is
pretty much catastrophic, since the Earth crust will most likely be
displaced say 20-30 degrees. This is however very consistent with the
Pleistocene extinction. You find massive numbers (millions) of
tropical animals suddenly frozen in the (what is now considered)
northern hemisphere (Siberia). It seems Siberia and on the other side
of the globe S & N Americas were maximally affected by the slide,
while the fulcrum (stationary) points were around Iraq (what we call
cradle of the civilization, ancient Mesopotamia) and whatever is on
the opposite side of the globe.

This is all speculative theory based on facts and calculations I
managed to perform so far, but it fits the facts better than any other
alternative theory (and answers so many seemingly unrelated questions
that have not been answered by science so far).

There is also a smoking gun evidence of a map of Antarctica:

http://ancientx.com/nm/anmviewer.asp?a=40&z=1
http://members.tripod.com/~Glove_r/Hapgood.html

but showing Antarctica as it looked with no ice! Only recently have we
been able to cartography the land mass under the ice .. and similarity
(with all the copying noise introduced through ages from the ancient
original) is striking. This is also very consistent with the fact that
N. America was frozen at the time (being at the North pole?) while
Siberia on the other side was at the Equator. The magnetic pole shift
and subsequent crust displacement gets us where we are today.

The next Sun's pole shift is scheduled for Dec. 21st 2012, and it will
coincide with a rare planetary alignment (you can take any
astronomical program and compute/plot the positions of the planets on
that day):

http://www.jupitersdance.com/

The speculative theory predicts that we will witness in the upcoming
years more earthquakes, volcanic activity, hurricanes, tornadoes,
etc. than ever, with the culmination point in 2012.

Now what would happen if such theories were to become widespread among
the human population? Most likely there would be total chaos and
disorder. In such a case governments would enforce some kind of order,
and concentration camps and totalitarian population control would come
handy... so there might be a lot more to what is happening (or it may
be just a coincidence).

About me: I am a scientist (yeah and atheist), I will entertain any
ludicrous theory as long as there are strong facts supporting it. I
have been studying many things for the past 2 years, the more I
studied the less sense things made, and I had to go further to the
past in search for answers in order to get some semi-coherent
theory. I am not claiming I am there yet, but you've got some food for
thought

It is completely expected and consistent that Africa is the cradle of
the civilization, since it is least affected by pole shifts and crust
displacements, while Americas and Asia are most affected.

I think it boils down to mortal insecurity. Most people are afraid to die and need something to cling to. The problem with insecurity is it can be dangerous too. Like religion, insecurity deprives people of living. It takes away from the enjoyment of life. To say the theory of religion controlling the masses is flawed, whether or not it's used as a conscious controlling device, or a physical form (inquisition, Hitler, etc..), in itself is flawed.

I'm aware of the history of religion and it being at the forefront of most of the world

actually a highly volitile geological event took place about 74,000 years ago....its an eruption of a supervolcano named toba in sumatra.....human dna shows that about 75,000 years ago there was a bottleneck in our gene pool....we were reduced to about 8 to 9,000 individuals...thus creating a very small dna pool...all human dna is very closely linked as a result of this bottleneck....the erupion was large enough to create a volcanic winter on a global scale for several years....oddly enough yellowstone another well known calderra has had an eruption cycle of about once in 600,000 years.....and its been roughly 640,000 years since it has erupted.......i suppose the survivors of that event....whomever and wherever they may be located will have alot to do about the dictaion of history and past events at that point......i.e religon....its all perspective......if theres five stories to choose from......then youll have a variety of religeous beliefs......but if theres only a couple....youll have uniformity in religous beliefs.....75,000 years is a long enough period of time to come up with a wide variety of different beliefs....but most religeous sects have a lot of common themes....which likely indicates a major event spawning these beliefs...an event large enough to effect people on a global scale .......as people go thier seperate ways the strory is altered for many reasons....but the basis remains the same....

RANDA4COUPLE, Could you post some references to that theory. It's not that I do not believe you. I would just like to read more about what you are saying. Here is a link you might find interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

-D-

Hey Don,

I think my sperm are laden with Mitochondrial DNA, since all I can produce are girls.

:!

here you go don

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory

RAND, thanks! Interesting theory. I am curious to see if it's supporters can strengthen their stance with more supporting evidence. It stands to reason that such a catastrophic event would've produce massive graves under volcanic ash. Perhaps there will be anthropoliogical or archeological evidence to support it as well. That was a long fuckin time ago though LOL.

-D-

its been about 75,000 years....very few human remains from that time period are ever recovered....but the fact is even if we did recover remains would they even give us enough info to determine the cause of thier deaths.....its unlikely......just going off of the atmospheric changes caused by other much smaller eruptions...such as the one in the early 1800's that caused a year without summer causing crops in europe to fail and leading to many death...its easy to see the damage a toba sized eruption would cause.......the amount of sulphuric acid in the atmosphere alone would cause worldwide drops in temperature as much as 10-15 degrees ....... it would almost act as a nuclear winter.......think of the entire american midwest being rendered useless.....our grain belt gone........where would the food come from......its easy to see how such a disaster 75,000 years ago would have brought the human race to its knees.......if you do a google search on super eruptions youll find a multitude of article not at all based on theory but on fact....they do happen....and when they do the results for the inhabitants at the time are catastrophic.....

Actually volcanic ash entombing the skeleton would be a pretty clear indicator as to how the person died. Like any other creatures remains that have been fossilized, humans should be amongst the compacted ash.

I have no doubt in my mind that eruptions happen. Mt. Saint Helens is a perfect example of it. I am from the Pacific Northwest (Oregon). I know all about volcanos. I can still remember when I was a child having to wear masks when Mt. Saint Helens Blew. That still doesn't prove the original theory. They have evidence that there was a volcanic eruption, whether it was of the exstintion level event magnitude, remains to be proven. St. Helens erupted and scatter ash all around the world because it blew up and set ash almost into space. There were reports of ash in Russia and Europe as well. I do know that Yellow Stone is a "Super Volcano", that could seriously fuck the planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory this link is also a good one....i think youll like it

this is another good one.... ebbolles.typepad.com/babels_dawn/2007/03/the_toba_supere.html

Here is something similar, that should've done the same thing that you are proposing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crater_Lake

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Crater+Lake+Oregon&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

don what you say about people embedded in ash is very true....but look at some of the problems created by it.....the cities of pompeii and herculeium...both destroyed by vesuvius were completelt entombed in ash and hidden....it took nearly 2000 years to even find them....and thats with the prior knowledge of thier existance and approximate location.......when your talking about ash fall on the scale of the toba eruption...which covered as much as 2 continents...where do we even begin to look...its the preverbial needle in the haystack....there is plenety of evidence of ash beds from india to china to the arabian penninsula......and it only takes one centimeter of ash fall to prevent crop cultivation......the vast majority of the people killed would have more than likely starved to death......im sure in the immediate blast area not a living soul was left but in the weeks and months following far more would have succomed to the ash itself and the effect the ash had on plantlife.....if there are no plants to eat any remaining grazing animals would at least attempt to migrate to a more fertile location if there were any....this effect wouldnt have lasted just a few months either....were talking a period of several years...which on a global scale is very problematic.....

crater lake is a drop in the bucket compared to the toba eruption.....toba was 3,000 times larger than the eruption of mount st helens.........somewhere along the lines of one gigaton of tnt....

Again, there would be ash deposits around the world and skeletal remains with in that layer of earth, marking that period. Read the link you sent me again.

http://ebbolles.typepad.com/babels_dawn/2007/03/the_toba_supere.html

Here is an excerpt:

<font color="#ff0000">
"These exciting claims inspired serious geological research into the question of whether such super-eruptions can really cause ice ages and mass extinctions. The general answer is no. The most authoritative investigation appears to have been the one made by Paul Wignall, an expert on mass extinctions. His review (available here) found that there were much more dangerous volcanic events than the super-eruptions and he reported:

This brief review of historical and geological volcanism provides little evidence for a link between individual volcanic eruptions and climate change, and no evidence at all for a link with extinctions. (p. 4)..."</font>

Again, even if it were 100 times mount saint helens, it doesn't mean life would be wiped out.

heres a list of all know supervolcanoes.......you can google the toba eruption.....anything that happened 75,000 years ago is going to be open for some speculation as there arent alot of witnesses to the event

http://www.armageddononline.org/content/view/177/56/

anyway gotta get back to work

I will look into it, but one guy speculating against what mainstream science is saying is unlikely, is not very convincing (as of yet). It is however, interesting enough to keep a tab on.

Oh and regardless of how they died, there would still be fossilized remains amongst the ash layer, that scattered all around the world following the eruption. After all, it's all that ash that would be blocking the sun. You see the thing is, most of the ash would not stay in the air long, St. Helens also proven that. You used nuclear winter as an example. That too is something that is still theoretical.

If we scale down your event to let say crater lake, 8 x 10 km caldera , it should've wiped out all the Natives in Oregon, yet they all remain. I know, because I am Native American from Oregon. Confederated Tribes of Grande Ronde (Chinook). LOL

actually ash wouldnt be the culprit in blocking out the sun......its the sulphuric acid also known as sulphuric aerosols in the upper atmosphere causing the blockage of sunlight into the lower atmosphere...thus heating the upper atmosphere and cooling the lower atmosphere....the link povided here is by far the best and most comprehensive look at the toba blast i have found....it will also provide you links to look further in depth. as far as crater lake goes..the size of the cadlera itself doesnt really matter...they may be large as a result of multiple eruptions over a period of time....the size of the magma chamber is the key...in the case of ash from toba i think you will find this link sufficiently covers its dispersal...as well as its effect on the populous of nearby regions....hope you enjoy

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory

I do not disagree with you that there was an huge eruption. What I am not convinced of is an extinction level event. St. Helens and Mazama (Crater Lake, a super volcano, 42 times St Helens) are both Stratovolcanos. That means they have large explosive pockets of sulphuric gas, hence there explosive nature. As are all of the other mountains in Oregon and Washington. If you model is correct, then it would apply on a small scale in and around the United States. This why the scientist that is boasting your theory is standing alone. I am not disagreeing, just taking it with a grain.

the bottle neck and the toba eruption are both factual events....but the scientist in question has theorized they are related...thats the debate.....the toba blast...was 3,000 times larger than that of mt st helens.....there is no disputing that....the scientific community agrees.....it is an interesting theory none the less....that the 2 events just happen to coincide with each other.... they do say when theres smoke theres fire....and im just saying i smell moke

The bottleneck is a theory as well. It's not even supported mainstream. Ambrose's hypothesis is partially based upon another theory. There is no way to prove density of the population before hand.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1288383

If we're going to talk about huge eruptions. Let's talk about huge eruptions!!!

truthfully its the beauty of the argument...there really is no difinitive answer.......because unforunately we dont have the technology to either prove or disprove any of these theories.....but it does let you know whose a glass half full person and whose a glass half empty person.....the fact that a discussion like this could be hashed out on this site is encouraging....and the cum shot before my post can be considered a bonus

I am not a pessimist regarding the issue, I just don't accept something as fact or truth before it's proven. I take the same approach to science as I do religion. I'll believe it when it's proven. The difference between science and religion (another human origin theory) is that I see little to support the "god" theory. As I said, the evidence in this guys theory is very compelling, but I try not to be presumptuous when evaluating it. It is very interesting to say the least, but not enough to use language to describe it, that <i>doesn't</i> include phrases like "scientists believe". I wouldn't be surprised if the theory were correct.

-D-

Man, I can't believe you two theologist's didn't even acknowledge my eruption pic.. LOL

Mr. UtHot

i did

LOL, I see a lot of "scientific" discussion.

First, it is totally unimportant how many people support a theory for
the theory to be valid, even if it is a single man vs the rest of the
world, in particular vs. the main-stream (they have vested interest in
status quo). The world has been delusional many many times in the
history, with the most "recent" and glaring folly of Earth being flat
(dark ages, while the ancient greeks already knew it was a "ball", and
knew very precisely its circumference).

It was always a revolutionary work of a single (often prosecuted)
scientist that has (through irrefutable evidence) brought the status
quo down.

The catastrophic events are real, there is enough evidence of mass
extinction taking place from time to time.

exciting guy, on the same token, there are just as many "promising" theories, supported by the extreme minority, that bomb. I agree that it is a valid theory. What I do not agree with is teaching or conveying it as fact. One should never enter a conversation saying, things like, "75,000 years ago, a volcano erupted and caused a bottleneck in the human population narrowing it down to 1000-10,000 people." There are too many unknown variables, to speak as though it is fact or even highly likely. One should say, "A scientist armed with some pretty interesting or compelling indicators hypothesizes that a human population bottleneck occurred right after an ice age triggered by what was likely to have been a super volcanic eruption", as that is more correct.

Dating processes have shown flaws and or discrepencies more than once in scientific history. We should never sell anything as fact with out proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. One should no more drink the scientific koolaid, than the religious stuff... Y2K, among countless other predictions science makes, proves that now matter how compelling the theory may sound, there is always a possibility that one variable is off. Depending on the margin for error, the results can be huge, especially when dating.

Again, I think the theory in question is totally valid. I am simple saying that it is a theory and not fact. A lot of people convey and comprehend popular theories as fact. I hope that was I was being clear and not condescending. I am exhausted. I am agreeing that the theory is valid. However, I think there are other <i>valid</i> theories regarding the same subject. What theory is correct remains to be proven.

-D-

You are absolutely right.

A scientific theory (except for the pure mathematics) can not be
proven, only validated by experiments (increasing our conviction in
its validity), but never proven:

since one can not, except in rare cases, exhaustively try all
possible experiments.

or disproved:
a *single* repeatable experiment that conflicts with the prediction
of the theory would do).

Explaining the history is problematic since it is a non-repeatable
experiment, hence we will never know for sure what happened and/or how
it happened. However, if one can identify probable and repeatable
external factors that are the main cause for an event, one can
speculate, that if the external factors are to repeat the consequences
will be similar.

We are living in a repeatable world:

Earth circles around itself
Moon circles around us
Earth circles around Sun
Planets circle around Sun
modulating the Solar activity
Solar system circles around the center of the Galaxy
if you are not aware, we are currently crossing the galactic plane
or the most dense area of our galaxy.
and so on.

We can precisely predict repeatable events, but we can only speculate
of the consequences.

Anybody dogmatically clinging to a theory is no better than a religious fanatic.

Thank you. That is all I was saying. In this particular situation, I find the theory in it's infancy, with a few great indicators, but not enough to push me into believing it is most likely what happened. What I would like to see is fossilized remains atleast around the the continent of the explosion. If there was indeed an eruption of that magnitute, killing that many people, it's likely something would be left in the earth from that time period. After all, we find remains of dinosaurs that are much older. If this indeed wiped out as many people as it suggests, there should be whole groups (being the pack animals we are) of specimens all throughout Africa from that time period, that can be carbon dated as well. I think that would be a step in the right direction. I guess the bottom line for me is that I would like to see more. So far it's circumstantial.

-D-

I know it's "crazy" but those make the best conspiracies, right? Years ago a friend told me she worked for some doctor who had a cure for aides. Maybe it wasn't a cure but it stopped the disease from destroying the body? What are the implications ?

Mr. Condell know his stuff, what can I say?