Swingers on Swingular - Swingers Forum - Is this one of your rules? What is it? is it fear? or something

I have addressed this subject before, and did not get the answer I was looking for, I really didn't understand the forum back then or the people who post on it, and I hope now I can ask it differently and maybe get a better response.
A lot of people on this site say they will not play on the first date. or that they will only play with their friends. Have to be friends first, etc.
Is this fear of STDs? Is it fear of thinking of yourselves as sluts? That others will think of you as sluts? Is it values, morals? does it make it OK to fuck other people if you know them and have had them over for a BBQ? If your kids have played together?
Is random sex scary? Or is it just Taboo? Does it have anything to do with living in Utah and the pressure of the morality of the state?
Does everyone have this rule, or one similar to it about random sex?
Have any of you ever broken this rule? and if so, what does it take to get you to break the rule?
I only ask out of curiosity, please don't take it the wrong way, I'm merely trying to get a feel for why these rules exist in a lifestyle like this one. This is not one of our rules, sexual energy is there or it isn't, so we play it by ear.(no pun intended!!)
~CLASSY~

CLASSY:

Good topic!

Neither Siren nor myself have set any specific rules about time parameters being met before we'll play with a couple, but as always with many things in life...our playing has it's dynamics and nuances, which are always evolving.

So, to respond to a few of the questions you posed:

Fear of STD's? Not specifically.

Fear of thinking of ourselves as sluts? Absolutely not. Sometimes sluthood is fun!

Fear of others thinking we are sluts? We don't and have never given a patoot about what others think of us.

Values, morals? No way! We are "swingers" after all, and besides...we've both spent our time in an organized "forum" (former mormons), worrying about whether or not we were being "worthy" or if Jesus was happy with us; we're sooo done with that!

Do we have to BBQ before we'll fuck someone? What's the point of that? Besides...sometimes through the interaction of a BBQ you realize, "I really don't wanna boink this person."

If our kids have played together? Nah...children fall outside of the spectrum of the specific lifestyle. They're part of the social nature when we're not swinging with those that we have met during the course of our experiences. It's all good.

Is random sex scary? Well, yes it is...or it CAN be...but especially if you don't practice wisdom and are not reasonable by indulging in indiscriminate sex with EVERYONE you come across. There are some seriously scary-ass people out there! This question is along the same lines as the first question of fear of STD's.

Taboo? Well, hell...yes it is...and I believe that is part of the intrigue; part of the whole mind-game of swinging.

Bottom line: Siren and I have been known to play on first dates, and we've been known to wait a long time, and as can be expected have had a grab-bag of results. We never carry an agenda or ulterior motives (expectations) when we socialize or meet people. We can draw no conclusion using the good vs. bad experiences and if they were a first-time play or not.

We do, however, go with how we feel at any given moment and at any given event. You know...sometimes it just feels right and sometimes, the Mo-Jo is simply not there.

~J~

Fuck First - Friends Later

Very well put Thoughgarden! I couldn't have said or stated it any better!

here, here we will have to agree with fuck frist then friends if you want to chit chat let it be about what you will and won't do in the bed cause we do like to know what boundaries are so as not to hurt anyones feelin. cause you never know what might cause them to go off.and getting off is what we are after lol

First time post on the forum!!!! *Cheer* *Cheer*

##Warning this is a no fuck on the first date zone##

You WILL NOT find the above flag flying above us.. however to play on the first meeting is extremely rare. It isn't the fear of STDs, but then again who isn't afraid of getting something that can kill you?. My wife and I are very much on the same page that we can separate Sex and Love. Since we are not looking for "lovers" we are only looking for a good time. Our thoughts on getting to know someone is so that we know we can hang out in a situation and it doesn't have to be about sex. We don't want to feel obligated when someone says "hey lets hang out" to think they mean "lets fuck". We would rather let that spark happen in the time and place. We come prepared but without expectations.

We will admit that there have been occasions where something did happen on the first meeting and with one person we got blown off on future conversations until it was "convenient" for the other person. That just doesn't suit our style since we are social by nature and not hermits. So basically we have to have a common bond before we hit the sheets. Also of note... we are looking for others that we find physically attractive however no one is perfect (including ourselves) and personality can make a really hot person ugly.. and a fairly attractive person very desirable. Hope that answers your questions.

kittynwoo said it very well....we have no such rule, each situation is different and can't be stymied by over regulating ourselves

B&B

Well, we don't swing on the first date

Why?

We have to get to know who you are, for us its more than sex....

No wham bams, for us its about quality of the experience...not quanity

STD's are a concern, just another reason not to trade a moment of lusty fun for a life sentence

So it may take a little while to meet someone who feels the same way (or close to it...haha)

As far as the atmosphere in Utah hopefully its not too restrictive or repressive sexually because we are moving there.....hopefully within the next 10 months

It's fun to think we're all in this for the booty, isn't it? This is not a friend-making site, it's a sex-making site, plain and simple. Whether you become friends with people or not, sex is the priority.

So, it depends on the kind of sex you want and the way you approach it. We find that one of us enjoys the foreplay (flirting, seduction, fanatisizing, etc.) and not so much the act itself while the other mainly enjoys the gettin' down and naughty. Covers all the bases and allows us each to satisfy our curiosities and fantasies.

Enjoy your post Tequila!

We have a no play rule....it is not in stone, but the main reason is that we have not had good experiences with the playing on the first date...HOWEVER, we have had people not come back for a second date, when we wanted to play, but stuck to our guns...Sucks, BUT we found out they were not into this whole thing for the same reasons as us...The sex is a bonus and/or side effect, it is NOT the focus...

We create rules for ourselves because they are so FUN to break.

We don't play with people we don't like and most of the time it takes more than one contact to really determine that. We have found some really great first time friends.

Here is a scenario for you....................Your out of town, on vacation, you meet that elusive "unicorn" the single bi-female, shes HOT, she willing, and shes on her way out of town.
You only have one shot at it, do you turn to this rare find, that is ready to fulfill all those single fem fantasies, and say "Sorry hunny, but we gotta be friends first"? Or do you throw your caution to the wind and go ahead and fuck on the first date?
Its not hard to find a reason to break a rule, and if there are reasons to break them, why have them? Why not let the moment dictate?
Or is this just an excuse that people use instead of being honest about not wanting to have sex with someone? Or is it an excuse you tell yourselves to not have to go thru with being real swingers?
Just a couple more questions I had.

...........and to the above reference of sex being a side effect of swinging, I found this in our own Websters dictionary:

Swinger
1. One that swings: a good swinger of baseball bats.
2. Slang
a. A person who actively seeks excitement and moves with the latest trends.
b. A person who engages freely in promiscuous sex.
c. A member of a couple, especially a married couple, who exchanges sexual partners.

So really isn't sex, by definition, what makes someone a swinger?

What I meant was isn't it more that swinging is the side effect of being open minded and free with your sexuality? rather than sex being the side effect of swinging?
I mean why not just get open minded friends? Why bother finding swinger friends if sex isn't the intent of it?
I have a few friends that are very open minded and know we swing, but they would never do it. I am looking for swinger friends because of the benefits, lets face it, sex is the intention of swinging, when it all boils down.
I really I don't think anybody should just have sex just because the opportunity arises, nor would we go there just because we had the chance, there has to be chemistry, energy, or attraction of some sort. (even pure horniness!!LOL)
Just wondering why so many REQUIRE friendship, which to me is more of a side effect. What happens when after you have become friends and finally decided to have sex, and it ends up being an awkward moment? maybe the sex sucks, or one of them has a funky smell or weird fetish? wouldn't that somehow hinder the friendship? (Green toenails might turn me off for a couple days!!LOL)
So really what I'm saying is why be steadfast and make it a rule that really is just a guideline?

I think I speak for the both of us when I say 1st date is not a problem for us.

HOWEVER...
We do like to meet first and get to "know" someone first. 15 - 30 min of introductions doesn't qualify as knowing them and jumping in the sack so fast makes for strange bedfellows (pun intended).

Our first swinging experience was like that because we didn't feel we really wanted to meet friends just fuck mates for the evening. Since then we have felt that was our worst experience. Since then we have gone out and had no pressure fun with other couples hoping that it may lead to a romp in the sack but not expecting it. Personally some of the people we have met became even sexier to me (or us) after spending the evening over dinner, drinks or a show.

Just my 2 cents

S

Were not against playing on the first date, its just very rare that were COMFORTABLE enough on the first date to play. We've had a couple of great first times, and a couple not so hot. Comfort is the key for us!

TR, we've been close all the while...just pull the trigger man!!...lol

we prefer to meet once or twice before hand but as a lot of you have said if things are right we will play on the first meeting .. but that is rarely the case ..we do state in our profile friends first but we all know if 2 people meet and the situation is just right things are going to happen ..lol so lets all have some fun lol

We don't have any set rules on first date fucking. Whatever happens happens. If the spark is there, we'll go for it. If the spark isn't there, we'll still have fun with the couple we are seeing and give it another go another time.

Now as for the definition of swinging... if we were looking for lifelong friends, we'd go find them elsewhere. If we happen to find lifelong friends here, it's an added bonus to the sex.

-Fender

We made that same rule "no playing on the first meeting" after we experienced a problem with playing on the first date. This happened to us 12 years ago when we first started swinging. We met a young couple and Rob was so excited to see that a young woman would be interested in him that while we were having drinks he invited them back to our place to have some fun. On the car ride to our house I was not a happy camper. I explained that even though they seemed nice - we did not know them from Adam & Eve -- and they were following us to our home - where our kids were in bed. What were you (Rob) thinking? Of course he was thinking with his other head, the smaller one. Needless to say, we developed our "no play rule" immediately after that. We have modified that rule since then to allow for "sex at the first meeting" if the people are from out of town and we would not have another chance to see them again in the immediate future. It was modified again after we attended our first Lifestyles Convention when we were the "out-of-towners". SO I guess our no play rule is really for local couples -- who we would like to get to know better before moving to the next step, sicne we have the time to do so. We explain this to everyone, although some still do not understand it, because some people just can't wait.

I hate the term "rule" when it comes to things like this but I'll tell you why we would say it.

It gives the two of us an opportunity to talk and make sure we're on the same vibe. More than once I'm really into the couple and hubby is just playing nice and even I can't tell the difference!

we've found that dinner and another activity seems to work best, almost like 2 dates in one night. we get to do the 'interview' over dinner, have a few laughs a few drinks and ask the normal questions, then get in our car and drive to another location and talk about the couple in question (yes your ears should burn when following us to the club!) Wether we hook up that night or another one or even never see them again, its just hard to judge whats coming next. I think, through our experiences, it seems that no one wants to be the first one to breach the 'want to get naked now' silence. If someone has the key to that one, fill me in!

Mrs. Curious

Considering the fact that we usually travel to meet couples we have had contact with, both im's and phone conversations. Also we travel 5-8 hours each way to meet some we have already decided to get naked and play on the "1st date" We feel the converstions on the telephone is our first meeting per say so ,,,fuck first woooooooohooooooooooo!!!!!!

For the record, we're fuck first, friends later types. We didn't become swingers to make new friends. We could have joined the Rotary Club for that. LOL Frankly, we like our non-swinging life. We became swingers to add a few special "others" to our already great sex life. It was about fulfilling some group fantasies and the wife's bi-curiousness that did it for us.

It's a LOT more serious for us to decide to be friends with someone than it is for us to decide whether or not to fuck them. It takes a LOT longer than deciding "do 'em/don't do 'em" does.

With that said, we HAVE made a few great friends from swinging that we wouldn't have met otherwise and wouldn't trade for the world. And that fact that we are good friends AND swingers makes these relationships really cool.

But we have found that most folks don't actually "get real" until after the first sex anyway. Before that, everyone is guarded and on their best behavior. We're too old and wise to choose our friends based on first impressions.

We started with a bunch of rules mainly for B's security and her emotional wellbeing.. No deep kissing, no women under 30... No playing on a first date,, etc,,,,etc,,,,etc,.... Well those rules went bye bye fairly early on and that was over 10 years ago. We don't think that rules are there to be broken but rules restrict so very much. We like to get to know people before having sex because you never know what or who people are. We belonged to a club where there were 80 - 100 couples every month and generally and mostly the same people. After 3 years in that club one of the couples were arrested at there home for child porn, molestation... etc. No one had an inkling.. I guess the point of that is that there are a lot of creeps out there and one never knows where they may pop up. We like to get to know something about people, generally, before committing to sex with them. Now that doesn't mean that we will not jump in the sack with someone, if the chemestry is there, on a first encounter... I don't know if date is the right term. We've also had some weird experiences with couples on a first encounter... which makes you think twice before jumping the fence.

We were approached by a young couple, at one of the clubs we attend...off premise... who seemed very nice and with whom we felt chemistry. Well to make a long story short... we began to play in the hospitality suite and she was so sweet but he started to be very bossie and started being a bit rough with his wife and then B. I was about to call it a night. The wife was unbelievable and cute and ..... had just had a baby not too long ago and was full of milk... B was the first to get wet with that but in any case he was a real paiin. He wanted to go straight for the pussy and B told him that we have ONE rule... Safer sex... and if he didn't have a condom ...she did...Well when that was said he promptly got up too his wifes arm and almost pulled her off the bed and left. I guess one never knows people even with our experience.

As to morals or anything else....... How does morals, a reigious principle mostly or religion driven have to do with swinging. I one takes the Bible as absolute and all that it says, then swinging is against those precepts. Not being from UT I don't know about Mormons or their teachings beyond basics. Looking at the number of people from UT here ....... There are either a bunch of protesting Mormons or those who have split with precepts of the church and wedding vowels of "cleaving" to ones own mate... "foresaking all others", both fairly common vowels to most marriage ceremonies or they simply ignore and choose to do what turns them on.

Now about the example of the traveling scenerio. If this is something that trips your collective trigger.... why not... You'll probably not "pass this way again".....

Swinging is very individualistic. We all have our own idea of what it is and how to proceed. There is no protocol other than NO means NO. We have ben asked countless times what the protocol is/was and we try to explain about individual preferences. There really isn't a right or wrong it just is about preferences. It's not about morals or fear or being sluts. It's about fun and fantasy predicated on one's own (couples) preferences. I can only explain our reasons for our preferences. BBQ's might be nice but not necessary. Kids around, even asleep.... No way if play is in the picture. Taboo???? how could that be since swinging is a taboo in it's own right.. I can say that all too often after sex, people seem to evaporate, so maybe it would be better to just have indiscriminate sex and see if anythign develops from there. If it's good sex and they disappear.... what of it...

There are no rules unless you make them (exception: NO MEANS NO!)

Ray

Well, from my single woman's point of view here goes.

There is a thing for safety, both sexually and for my physical safety. I want to make sure that the person I am with is not a 21 century version of Jack the Ripper!

I also have a goal to have a friendly, on-going relationship with the person I am with. I am not on this site to add notches to my bedpost. That does not mean I have not had sex the first time we meet, just that it is not my preference. Chemistry means alot, but should be lasting for me.

Also, each of us is here to fulfill different things. One person trying to define and insist what the site is for about it turns me off. I am here looking for a good polyamorous relationship with several ppl.

I have been on other sites, and being single makes me a target for those that send the ever so respectful notes of "hey! I like your tits.. let's fuck!" as a way to introduce themselves. Makes a person feel as if they sleep indiscriminately and with little caution as to their safety or anyone else's. As I said before, safety is good.

But, bottom line is we are all different and looking for different things. Just ask when you chat with someone and if they are the real thing, they should tell you any rules they have for playing or anything else you wish to know about them. I think being open and honest is the most important thing in this lifestyle, not how many ppl. you have sex with.

K

Whoa! Hold on! We arent trying to define the swinging lifestyle for anyone! We are new enough that we are still finding our own boundaries with others and with each other!

We have found that sometimes we have played on first meeting...and other times we have wanted to get to know the couple...trying to figure out which way makes us both the most comfortable!

We are all about making new friends! We have found many new friends within this "lifestyle" and hope to meet many more!...including you...Tequila?

Have a great day!
Kym/Tim

Ohh be careful with ...TEQUILAROSE... We have to wonder if they are real. See we sent them some messages and they didn't respond in a timely manner that was acceptable to us - LMAO.. (JK - a spoof about another recent posting). They are real and fun people too despite DON and his comments and personality (which is fun and awesome in person) so you will love them KYM-N-TIM, and hope they will be at the party on Fri so we can introduce you to those sexy two.

OK now to the topic at hand. We have to have a connection with people before we enter into the play mode. NO RULES or BOUNDRIES just CLEAR COMMUNICATION with us. We love to have friends in this lifestyle, and we seem to have a lot of great ones. But we are also selective in who we play with. Yes we are all on here for different reasons. Some we have found are on here and make it clear they don't want friends or friendship, just SEX and that is it ... Period! While that works for some it doesn't for us. So we try to have some clarity in our initial conversations. This not only includes the basics but also the STD talks (hard subject, but we have ran into it more then once and have had surprises) up front in the first meeting or two.

We let them know up front that we ALL will need to have the three main things at work to make things click with all of us 1) Physical Attraction 2) Sexual Chemistry , 3) Personality Connectivity and similar interests in life and things help as well. If we ALL don

When meeting people for the first time, we'll usually tell them we're not going to play that night. It gets rid of the what-does-he-want, what-does-she-want pressure and lets us get to know the other couple as people and know whether we're actually attracted to them. Additionally, it gives us time to discuss things in private before moving forward.

Before we made the 'no sex on the first date' rule, it was easy to get swept up in the other couple

To everyone, and no one in particular,
The reason I have asked this question was not to insult any one's rules, or chastise as some seem to have taken it, AGAIN.
I have asked this because our rules have changed and even lightened. As we get deeper into the lifestyle we have given up alot of our original rules and now they are more like guidelines. (I don't know if any of you remember the beating I took in the forum for having a no kissing rule, but after abandoning it I still have yet to find another man I can kiss passionately, just doesn't do it for me I guess.) I am still wondering why this is such a popular rule.
It seems there are many who have the "No friends, No play rule." I am only curious as to why.
I do not think anyone owes anyone sex, I don't think that everyone should fuck on the first date, I am simply curious.
We are very secluded in the south, and are limited as to options of swingers to befriend. A great deal of you Northern Utah swingers have this "No friends, No play rule," out of respect for your rules I can't hardly send you an email asking if you want to hookup this weekend as we are only going to be in town Friday, and have a life to get back to on Saturday. This would break your rule and I cannot feasibly ask it of you.
Our guideline for this situation is "Management reserves the right to refuse service to anyone." or in other words, we will see how it goes.
Anyway, I hope I didn't offend anyone, I have my own weird guidelines as well and have often wondered if there are just a bunch of weirdos out there I don't know about, or if I am the weirdo.
~CLASSY~

One thing about the lifestyle is that we should know how to accept both questions and rejections as well as listening to others without judgement. I really get pissed at some peoples' attitudes in this forum... because I don't know why they are so argumentative under so many BS guises.

" I like to shake up the forum"

"Things are dull so I just wanted to stir the pot"

Most of the time it's just a way of being confrontational as a personality trait. You have not been one of those people... You always seem to be looking and questioning and generally in such a mild mannered way... JUst can't see how anyone could be offended by your questions. You need not apologise for asking anything about swinging or interpersonal relationships. If people are offended by what you say.... so be it and GENERALLY many here need to be more sensitive to others when we post and think about what we say, as you seem to.

There seems to be just so much flamming and juvenile behavior in this forum.. I can only assume that many have trouble understanding what someone else is trying to say and may not be a adept as some others either in saying what they wish or understanding others posts.

As they say in the deep south hereabouts.... "You done good son" If that's not idiomatically correct it's because I'm a transplanted Yankee from way up north way...
Ya'llcumbaknow

well hell Explorr you ain't made it to the deep south yet y'all gots to git at least to SOUTH Carolina.i am so sorry but NORTH Carolina is only in the regular south.have a good day.
Phil

TR,

Here are my diverse topics:

1) Whose spouse do you want to <script>document.write("<a href=htt"+"p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_punch target=_blank>donkey punch</a>")</script>?
2) Whose ass would you not mind getting e.coli from?
3) Picture forum: penis puppetry
4) Enemas in plastic indoor pools at swinger parties: for or against?
5) Banana hammocks: what is the best color?
6) What is your preference for male nipple hair? Trimmed, bald, or natural?
7) What is the best lube to use when engaging in double armpit fucking?
8) Site update request: add "back-to-front wiper?" to the profile description.

Well, it's just a start, but I, for one, am anxiously awaiting expert opinions on these riveting topics. Hehehe.

Mr.

Banana hammocks, best color: purple! am I right ULUVABIGBLKDICK?

Kisses,
~K~

I don't think we're sluts. But we're here for Hot Sex and friends after maybe. Not looking for a new mate married and happy. I'm not knocking Utah but we have lived in all over the USA and not used to this let's date thing.
But when in Rome.............................
So if you just looking for Sex.........................

We play it by ear...It can be a little messy that way...but with good Q-tips you can clean out your ears pretty easy. lol

We have made some great friends here, played with some great friends here, met one or two strange people here.. awww Life goes on.

Lar and Lor

We have no set rules with cpls but normally we meet with a cpl over a drink and some conversation and what happens happens from that point I leave it up to the wife to decide where the night will go from that point most times its friends first unless we meet at a party or if someone else says "lets go to their place" as we cannot entertain at home. So we never rule playing in or out we just let the night take us where it takes us now when we meet single males there are "rules" its most always social meeting first time again if we meet in a party atmosphere the "friends first" rule goes out the window. Why with single guys ? We have met far too many that act like jerks when first meeting so if they can't handle a social meeting why invite them into the bedroom? In public wife is ms prim and proper in private she is a wild animal some single guys just don't get it we met one single guy who claimed to be "dominant" and he had his hands all over my wife in a public karaoke bar and she handled it well just smiled and removed his hand after I the hubby sent him a message that told him he was a bit too agressive and he should apologized told us to "fuck off" and single guys wonder why cpls do not want to be contacted by them???? We know there are nice guys out there and by the way we met this guy on another swing site.

The reason we dont play on the first meeting? Simple, to avoid that uncomfortable moment when you meet someone you have chated with and thought you had an attraction to untill you realized that the photos on thier profile are 10 + years old and these people look nothing like they led you to beleave! All at once (even though thay might be nice people) you have no sexual attraction to them! Call me shallow, but i cant fuck some one I have no attraction to! We always meet people at a neutral location first to avoid such instances. Unless we web cam with both of them first.
Mrs. READY

Well we respect the desires of others but we like to know who we are lying down with. Great looks does not mean the person isn`t going to go postal if they don`t get what they want. We have found that just because a lady comes with a flogger he assumes she must be into rough shit and like to get smacked around but if we take the time to get to know the person and let them know what limitations we each have then we avoid the drama. I know idiots like this are far a few between but we are not willing to take that chance.
Also we have been with very attractive couples that think their looks make up for their lack of effort to please and they only want to sit back and be lazy and have someone else do all the work. So for us the attraction has to be more then physical because the last time we checked Barbie and Ken were made of plastic and didn`t do anything to try to get us off. Not all attractive people fit this mold because a nex of mine was a former line dancer in Vegas and had the body t odie for and was also the most fun out of anyone I ever met.

This is a subject I often ask people about.

Swingers differ from others because of the sex. If you are looking for "friends" goto a club, join a gym, or goto a group that says FRIENDS. If you are interested in nudity, flirting, swap dating, dancing, etc there are groups for that. SWINGING/SWAPPING is a sport that specifically says "I am looking for people that are not afraid of unbridled sex with not ties" or "We embrace our sexual sides and trust our love enough that it does not intimidate me for him/her to explore"

This falls under the same curiosity as why so many couples are into single females and couples only. is there a trust issue with her having sex with another guy?

Phenyx, People/Swingers are all ages from 21 to 60+ and are l;ooking for many different things. Some look strictly for sex... others look for friends first some look for friends with benefits and some of the older couples are looking for one or two couples that are exclusive to each other and provide variety to their sex lives. Thes exclusive laisons are about variety and safe sex... I don't think that anyuone can make statements about anyone elses' preferences within the lifestyle...

Just an observation...

Everyone's own preferences are FINE for THEM. Some need to keep that in mind. We learned about "rules" after awhile. We have guidelines. One of those is "no sexpectations" on the first meeting. Maybe we will, maybe we won't. But NOTHING is to be assumed or implied. And we will always talk privately between the two of us before deciding. We have a system for that. We each get a vote and have ZERO discussion. One no vote is a no. We then go back and say, "no thanks." Then, when we are alone again, if we want to discuss the why's and wherefore's, THAT'S the time to do it. And that's about the only thing we consider a "rule."

We don't MIND going out a time or two or three before decisions are made. Some couples need that much time to decide. And if we're interested, we're good for a "second date."

But we have really tried to understand the concept of all the folks who claim to be into this to make friends and the sex is coincidental...or an after-thought. We just don't get it. But, heck, we don't even understand how people call someone a friend because they got drunk at one or two parties together. So it's probably us...we're weirdos.

We've played on the first date as well as at parties, but that is by no means the norm. We go into it all with a "whatever happens...happens" outlook and it's treated us great so far. I like to think we do the right thing by hanging out with potential partners in advance. What strangescarypeople our profile doesn't weed out personal meet-ups do.

We also happen to have a lot more fun when we know that we click with the other couple personality-wise, because we do like some (read : the more the better) personality in the bedroom. If you can make us laugh before, after, and at times even during sex, then that's just great in our book.

This is sort of the disconnect for us. By no means are we saying that we don't get to know people to some extent first...almost without exception. Nor does it mean we aren't interested in developing platonic relationships...even less that we are not open to it. But our hangup is with "friends first." Acquaintances? Absolutely! Buddies? Usually. Friends? By our definition, friends are RARE and special. I guess it's just how we use the word. My wife is German, and Germans would never say, "I love ice cream." They say, "I like ice cream" or "I REALLY like ice cream." They only LOVE their mate. Adult Germans don't even say they LOVE their parents. Similarly, we don't take the word "friend" lightly. So "friends first" is almost a deal-killer for hooking up with us. It takes us months to years to decide someone is a friend. It usually takes us an hour to an evening to decide whether or not someone is physically attractive to us...which INCLUDES personality, looks, hygeine, manners, style, and attitude. Thus, our lack of understanding. Like I said, we're weird. We don't consider someone we THINK is cool after a couple of shared drinks, or several parties we both attended and spent some time chatting with, a FRIEND. If that is all that is meant by "friends first," then who isn't in that category? OK, there's the occassional exception at a particularly wild house party, etc. where you might not even know their names beforehand. But that's an exception for all of us...I think. LOL

Okay, I'll preface this post by saying that I read up to page 2, and decided to write my own 2 cents before I forgot what I was going to write.. I'm like that sometimes...

Meeting someone before deciding to play with them needn't necessarily be about "making friends" or only sleeping with someone you feel that you know. It may have something significantly more basic at the core of it.

It seems to me that one's attraction to a person is largely based on what one knows about that person. For example, in a working environment, you may see someone for the first time and think to yourself, "Meh, she's a bit over weight, and looks really bitchy. Don't like her." But as time goes on, and you get to know this person, she seems less and less bitchy, you learn that you really like her personality, and find it really fun. Suddenly she's no longer fat, just cuddly, and you may find her irresistable, and her enormous breasts to be the very centerpiece of most of your fantasies. This isn't to imply any feelings of affection, there's just more that goes into attraction than simply what one looks like.

The opposite may occur as well, a gorgeous woman may walk into the office and you think "Man, I'd do her in a heart beat!" But as time wears on, and she shows to be extremely superficial, angsty, angry, and full of herself; you start to see that her breasts are significantly lopsided, her nose and chin are way too sharp, and her rib cage shows in a disgusting way.

It's not that either of these hypothetical women has actually changed at all, just your perception of them over time.

This seems to me to be a major cause of why single guys are viewed in such negative light; there are a few of us out there that are model/bodybuilder types, but also maintain the stereotypical asshole personality. These are the guys that you hear couples constantly complain about, how they came over and were total pricks, or that they were in - out - and gone in less than 20 min, without saying a word.
In Contrast, there are also quite a few single guys out there that aren't even close to the body builder type, but have a great personality, and are amazing in bed. You'd never know that just based on their profile pics.

Lastly, it's significantly easier to be suave and debonaire over chat than it is in person; and women (in my anecdotal experience) are generally more dependent on mental stimulation than physical. If Mr. Soandso can't turn on the charm in person, it may be a deal breaker.

So, I can honestly say I understand the no-sex-on-meeting rule; however, I don't follow it.

~That 0ne Darc guy

Don, I completely agree. I'm not suggesting "friends first" folks are wrong. I'm just explaining:

1. Why WE don't use that phrase...and folks often make offensive assumptions about us because we don't.

2. Why WE are always a bit uneasy about contacting couples who DO use that phrase.

FYI, around where we live, we have this whole "lifestyle clique" who run around protesting WAY too much about how friends is all that matters and they aren't in it for the sex at all, and labeling anyone who disagrees with them as "bedpost notchers." Mostly though, the way you get in their crosshairs is by telling one of them "no thanks." So this is a bit of a sore subject for us...as we DID tell a few of them "no thanks" and we aren't about to lie and say we didn't become swingers for the sexual aspects. Duh! LOL

Yup!