Swingers on Swingular - Swingers Forum

We are ex-pioneer stock Mormons. Currently practicing nothing organized and after extensively exploring many other options, don't see that changing.

It happened long before the swinging, as we had an opportunity to step back and witness all the judgment and control present in all organized religion, instead of love and tolerance.

We have had many more personal meaningful "Spiritual" experiences since leaving.

Both had never been with anyone else sexually, until a couple years ago when we started exploring swinging along with many other things and people we had judged. Doing that with an open mind and heart changed our lives.

Swinging is a very small part of our busy lives but it is always nice to connect and share our thoughts and bodies with others living outside society's "moral" box.

We look forward to reading your thoughts and experiences. T&T

Might it be "Religion" that makes humans selfish, greedy and corrupt.

A "Fuck Religion" just might be the answer:*

AMEN BROTHER DAN!!! Pass the condoms.

I belong to the round church.

Organized religion is mearly a means by which a group of humans can control other humans behavior through belief and doctrine usually based on fear of reprisal or offer of reward of some sort. So until we can come up with a deffinition of "god" that can be agreed upon it will be used to conduct the evils of mankind upon others. Personaly am an Isist, which doesn't put"god" in the universe it IS the universe. And that "god" (if you want to call it that)is so much more emense than our tiny little human brains can comprehend and defies any human deffinition. Can one truely comprehend infinity of space and time without begining or end? For those who aren't willing or able to accept that at least in this lifetime they can never know the answers to the biggest questions in life(where we came from, why are we here and what comes after this) religion serves them and give them a measure of peace of mind. Thats my silly take on it.

I am a practicing Druid, have been for years. And no its not a wiccan based regligion or pagen as some to belive.....although some did break off to make it that way, like everything elce in this world one bad apple!

Dave

SLOWHAND ......... my beliefs exactly!

WETTFEM,

Cool!! now there are two isists in the world..lol And the beauty is that there is nothing to join.

Well hell ........... it says I'm a satanist too. LOL.

Cal you heathen, god is hunting your ass right now. You better hide in the hot tub

Religion is like AA for spirituality. Some people cant stop drinking without being surrounded by other quitters, Some people need to be surrounded by people that feel the same way they do in order to have faith. I for one do not.
Religion is man made. They are all basically the same anyway, just different rules.
I have often wondered why people think someone has to be "in charge" maybe it because they fear being in control of their own destiny? Who knows. (maybe they don't want to be accountable for their own actions/beliefs/issues.)

Is there anyone out there who can describe God? ANd have you ever noticed that GOD spelled backwards spells DOG? I never realized that there were so many non believers in Utah. Thought that religion was such a big part of everything, including government there, that God was sitting on that seagulls head...As for B & I we are converted from religion to we just don't give a damn about it. More people have been killed and more wars fought because of religion. The term Jihad or Jehad, same varient, is a religious war or a crusade against people who don't believe as you or they do. I guess I'd say fuck religion but that would probably fuck up fucking.

And the Sun came up in the East and set in the West. and this was so. and this was the first day that I put the Darwin Fish on my car..... http://www.darwinfish.com/ Be a free thinker

this subject is all too often the quickest way to start an argument, cause a fight

( CHRIST LOOK AT THE MIDDLE EAST THE PAST 1000 YEARS )

The biggest problem with ANY organized religion in today

I too have made a choice not to belong to ANY organized religion. I was raised LDS and have some pioneer stock also, but feel I have outgrown having people that can't live what they preach tell me what I SHOULD be doing. Along with that I also respect your right to believe however you see fit.

I took the test and wasn't shocked at the Paganism score but Islam over Buddhism and Satanism over atheism made me sit up.

I was also surprised to see the 33% Christianity score. It's amazing how hard it is to rid ourselves of conditioned beliefs.

Paganism 96%
agnosticism 92%
Satanism 75%
Islam 75%
Buddhism 63%
atheism 50%
Hinduism 46%
Christianity 33%
Judaism 17%

Here's the link: http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=10907

Tan - the Agnostic Pagan

PS. I did find an interesting church at: www.TempleofEarth.com . A Religion Free Religion where you can instantly be ordained as a minister.

You can also get your advanced degree at their sister college today. http://www.templaruniversity.com

You can now address me as: "Dr. T, Ordained Minister of Free Luv "

LOL, I went to one of those sites too, lol

the one Jesse James used in Monster Garage.. But I dont feel comfortable using the whole REV. Bob title... lol...

Religion is the scourge of this planet. The sooner it is banished the better of we will ALL be.

I'm incredibly pleased to see so many free rational thinkers posting on this subject!!

Just when you feel you're out there alone... it turns out that there are more rational
people than I could ever have imagined. Bravo to all of you who had the courage
to say there is no god.... LORD knows... we're the real minority !!!!!! LOLOLOL

I was raised Roman Catholic fell away from the church for many years because I didn't see what it did for me but require me to attend services so I could listen to things I didn't fully beleive in. It also required me to feel guilty to be a real Catholic, repent for sins that I didn't feel were sins and tythe.

I met my second husband and his family were very strict in the practice. I thought I would give it another shot and even joined the choir.

I have gone back to the basics leaving organized religion behind - be good to others, myself and try to live a good life. I don't need others dictating how that is. I beleive that religion serves its purpose. That is to instill some level of moral code into society. All religions have the same basic principals some just take extreems.

So what I ask is how was that beneficial to me? My results of that survey aren't too surprising to me:

<table border='0' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='300'><tr><td><table border='0' width='300' cellspacing='0' cellpadding='0'><tr><td><p><font face='Arial' size='1'>agnosticism</font></p></td><td><table border='1' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='79' bgcolor='#dddddd'><tr><td></td></tr></table></td><td><font face='Arial' size='1'>79%</font></td></tr><tr><td><p><font face='Arial' size='1'>Buddhism</font></p></td><td><table border='1' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='71' bgcolor='#dddddd'><tr><td></td></tr></table></td><td><font face='Arial' size='1'>71%</font></td></tr><tr><td><p><font face='Arial' size='1'>Islam</font></p></td><td><table border='1' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='63' bgcolor='#dddddd'><tr><td></td></tr></table></td><td><font face='Arial' size='1'>63%</font></td></tr><tr><td><p><font face='Arial' size='1'>Christianity</font></p></td><td><table border='1' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='54' bgcolor='#dddddd'><tr><td></td></tr></table></td><td><font face='Arial' size='1'>54%</font></td></tr><tr><td><p><font face='Arial' size='1'>Judaism</font></p></td><td><table border='1' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='46' bgcolor='#dddddd'><tr><td></td></tr></table></td><td><font face='Arial' size='1'>46%</font></td></tr><tr><td><p><font face='Arial' size='1'>Hinduism</font></p></td><td><table border='1' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='42' bgcolor='#dddddd'><tr><td></td></tr></table></td><td><font face='Arial' size='1'>42%</font></td></tr><tr><td><p><font face='Arial' size='1'>Satanism</font></p></td><td><table border='1' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='42' bgcolor='#dddddd'><tr><td></td></tr></table></td><td><font face='Arial' size='1'>42%</font></td></tr><tr><td><p><font face='Arial' size='1'>Paganism</font></p></td><td><table border='1' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='38' bgcolor='#dddddd'><tr><td></td></tr></table></td><td><font face='Arial' size='1'>38%</font></td></tr><tr><td><p><font face='Arial' size='1'>atheism</font></p></td><td><table border='1' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='33' bgcolor='#dddddd'><tr><td></td></tr></table></td><td><font face='Arial' size='1'>33%</font></td></tr></td></tr></table><br><a href='http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=10907'>Which religion is the right one for you? (new version)</a><br><font face='Arial' size='1'>created with <a href='http://quizfarm.com'>QuizFarm.com</a></font></table>

BTW if any of you have the time there was a great series on the History Channel last weekend about what didn't make it into the bible. Interesting stuff! Interesting how many books were left out and how many were edited to make our King James version so often read today.

I just wanted to add for general posterity here that Satanism is not the worship of the Christian "Satan." Anton LaVey (or however his name is spelled) in his infantile wisdom named his church that way, probably to get a rise out of Christians. They dress in dark colors and perform ceremonies as if they're evil and whatnot in a Christian regard (but basically have stolen all of those rituals from the Celtic Wiccan, whose holy symbols and rituals were described by Christians to be the work of "Satan").

In any case, Satanist philosophy is focused on self-worship and the true belief that there is no higher power than yourself in the universe. So those of you earlier in the thread that thought the test identified you as paying worship to the antithesis of a god you don't believe in, don't worry. It is most closely related to Atheism, but one step further in that it is an organized religion led by nuts who enjoy negative attention.

To answer the question, I am Agnostic with very heavy Atheist leanings. I'm pretty sure my wife is around the same area I am with a lesser degree of Atheism.

FollowtheFender

I originally wasn't going to post anything on this subject, but against my better judgment i decided why not. In Jr. High or High School I read a book by Bertrand Russell.

Bertrand Russell wrote an interesting book years ago entitled "Why I Am Not A Christian'. It was a good book and one of his points was that over the course of human history religion has caused more harm than good. He talks about religious wars among many other things that led him to his thinking. He even had a section about religion and sex, and how many religious tend to have a habit of making sex bad. (its been many years since i have read this so I don't remember the exact points. what I do remember is that i "woke up" and realized how miserable my family was on Sunday. Having to dress up, get ready for Sunday school lessons, fighting with the kids who didn't want to go. Knowing that My dad would rather watch football etc. I thought whats the point and at the time found myself reading all his novels over that summer. (little did i know he was a philosopher & mathematician. Two subjects i was either bad at or didn't know anything about)

If your religion makes you happy great if not then maybe its not the right one.

Also I have studied many religious over the years and my humble opinion it boils down to this.

If you good (whatever the definition of good is) you go to heaven (whatever the definition of heaven is)
If you evil (whatever the definition of evil is)you go to hell (whatever the definition of hell is)

well i rambled on enough. my apologies.

p.s I have yet to determine what religion if any i believe in. I feel that if there is a GOD then he/she/it would rather have me spend my entire life searching for the "true" religion or religions than just practices what my family did/does.

Here Don, read this one instead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Satan

From the article:

The Church of Satan draws its name from the mythological and cultural concepts of Satan. Satan stands as the central symbol for many different gods, including Ahriman, Loki, Set, Amon, and Belial, all seen as symbolic of the same ideals and archetype. The Church of Satan claims that every individual can be his or her own god and is responsible for his or her own destiny. (In their usage, "Satan" denotes a symbol and metaphor rather than a literal anthropomorphic deity.) People who follow this belief system are called "Satanists".

----

The description and history in that article are far more accurate to what "The Church of Satan" is about than the one posted before which refers to a "Satanism" from a Christian standpoint. That is also what the tests earlier are referring to as "Satanism." I've studied quite a few Western religions, this being one among them.

FollowtheFender

"God is not a Super Being in the Sky, with the same proclivities and emotional needs as human beings, including the need for love and for revenge when love is betrayed or not given. God is life's Essential Energy. You might want to call that energy Pure Intelligence.

"Intelligence doesn't care whether you believe in It or not. It doesn't care whether you use It on purpose or not. If you do use It on purpose, It doesn't care how. It makes no judgment about any this. In fact, It makes no judgment about anything at all.

"Pure Intelligence wants nothing, needs nothing, seeks nothing. It simply Is. It exists in a way that allows Itself to be used. It does this, it allows this, it makes this possible, by placing Itself inside of Everything. Wherever you look you will find Pure Intelligence. It is at the basis of all things that exist. Snowflakes reflect Pure Intelligence. The tiniest atoms reflect Pure Intelligence. The biggest swath of the night sky reflects Pure Intelligence. The process of life Itself, examined at every level, reflects Pure Intelligence.

"The energy that I am here calling Pure Intelligence can be used -- is being used -- at every level of life, by Life Itself. You are using this energy, you are focusing this energy, every second of every minute of every hour of every day...usually without knowing it.

This energy that I am calling Pure Intelligence, and that I am telling you is another name for God, has no opinion about anything. That is because It doesn't need anything. It is singularly without need, for the simple reason that it is Everything That Exists in Any Form Whatsoever. This includes not only physical things, but metaphysical things as well. This includes all spiritual things, and anything in any form that simply IS...including thoughts, emotions, feelings, ideas, and, yes, the Black Holes of Space.

"Think about this. If God is truly Everything That Exists in Any Form Whatsoever, what in the world could God want or need or require? Why would God punish us for not giving God what we imagine that God wants or needs or requires? The answer to these questions is self-evident. It need not be discussed in great detail, because simple logic reveals it to us and makes it clear how we have been held captive by the mythologies of our own culture and its past.

JEFFINGERSAUL Here are a few quotes to hopefully (read god willing) gently nudge you into thinking for yourself.

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." --Carl Sagan

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." --Richard Dawkins

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing."
--Albert Einstein

and my favorite, sorry, but I don't know who to credit this to... it may be Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

THE IMMATURE MIND
Nowhere in the world, and at no time in history, has the average man actually made up his own mind. Priests and theologians have made it up for him... Kings..., conquerors, dictators, and politicians have made it up for him... Psychologically, the most dangerous power-groups and power individuals in history have been those who have wanted the average man to be a contented follower; a meek acceptor of his lot...

Need a religion???? TRY HUMANISM

mmm interesting topic. I've seen some talk, arguments, and some lashing out just as I would think that this topic would do, but nonetheless, some good points.
I grew up in a very very very religious home here in Utah...so I'm sure you may all guess what religion I may have been taught to believe, .....thats right....I grew up LDS. I'm not ashamed of that, nor am I afraid to say that I still believe in the religion, and I'm bringing my children up in it as well, HOWEVER....having said that instead of bringing my children up in this religion and teaching them its just what you do, and that there's only one "TRUE WAY", NO, I don't do that as my parents did. I am teaching my kids that there is many religions, and none are bad and what it comes down to is that you are true to yourself, you respect yourself, and others, you don't lie, cheat or steal and you b honest in all your dealings with yourself, and others. Do we go to church every week? ummm NO, I've learned that I can teach my kids all these values here in the privacy of my own home just as well, if not better then they can at church each week.
Its hard for me to go to church each week, with people that I know are hypocritical, judgmental, & doing the religion thing just all for show. If I go to church its for me, not for anyone else, its because I feel I need a recharge not because I am wanting the exceptance of my peers, or neighbors, thats bullshit! However, I have learned that although I may believe that most people that go to church each sunday are hypocritical, judgmental, and all for show, that its just as bad for me to make that judgment on on to them when I don't really know the why's (although their actions tell all, sometimes) the people in the religion do not determine my worth, or do they determine whether or not I make it to hell or heaven so if they want to look down on me for how i live my life, or how I might practice my religion then who are they to judge me (but who am I to judge them, also).
We've just decided that we believe in the principals and the values that our religion basis some of their teaching upon, and we believe in god, prayer, and teaching our children to love god and know god as well, we do not have to go to church in order to live our lives honestly, and with value. We believe that we want to treat people with respect, without judgement, and with love. We will do what we can to help others, and to us being a nonjudgemental person is the most important value we try to uphold. It's very important to us to not judge others until we walked a day in their lives. We believe that if we have a good heart, we're honest with ourselves and others and we respect whats been given to us then at the end of day we'll be just fine! I believe, myself, that it comes down to whats in a person's heart that truly matters, not what religion they lived. I know a lot of great people that haven't really structured their lives around any religion, and have also had somewhat of a hard life and not always done the right things BUT they are the most honest, true people out there and if they're not in heaven then you know what, I dont wanna be either!

I was told I needed to find Jesus.....does that mean he is hiding?

seriously, I have no care what your religious affiliations are, don't press them on me. Your beliefs are yours, not mine. I could care less until it affects me. Muslims that think they should kill all infedels....OK we are gonna have a problem with you. Mormon's that want all the bars shut down....free agency...look into it. Catholics who thinks sex for recreation not procreation is bad........millions of your future grandkids died on your daughters face last night.

The Mormons had trucks rolling to LA BEFORE Katrina made landfall, they were the first responders, Christians feed the poor around the world.

Like everything in life, there is good and bad. Religion is no different. Also, I know a lot of "religious" people who have no spirituality and pagans and agnostics who were more in tune with life and energy that a stadium full of evangelical christians. You don't want the Jehova Witnesses at your door, why must you feel it neccessary to save people from the fraud of religion? Who appointed you?

Man, the golden rule is just not used nearly enough any more. Even by myself

Not anything but me...

My biggest problem with religions is that they are all based on PEOPLES' ideas, rather than a God...Think about it...Why did God shut up after the Bible was written? I have not seen any burning bushes, have you?

As to the rest of the problem....THe thing about the Bible is that as a whole, there were something (sorry not going to look it up AGAIN) like 14 languages in the ORIGINAL texts...Who speaks all those languages? Does anyone today STILL have the ability to translate any of them? Who REALLY knows what heirloglyphics (sp?) mean? Of course not....BUT we can estimate,,,,The problem is that we do not KNOW what they all mean....Who translated the Bible first? MONKS...Who stood to gain the most from the translation? MONKS (or their employers) Can you see where this is heading?

Anyway...That is this one man's opinion...I have looked into most other religions, and they all have the same problems...MEN making rules...

Another GREAT quote, "Religion is the opiate of the masses" Marx...

Religion is no more than an address ! Prayer and god enter the lives of most when man has no control over the situation . Therefore , prayer and god is mans last hope .
Then before us is the simple story of good verses evil , but then the universe couldn't exist without an opposite , because everything that exists has an opposite .
Jesus Christ has had a successful run for over 2000 years . December 25th , the birth of the son of god , a day that should soley be focused upon the celebration of Christ . But , only to see parents offering their kids to a man in a red suit who rides animals with horns and name letters rearranged spell satan . This cat has taken the day away from Christ !! Good verses evil ??????? It's in the most common places yet so invisible to those with full bellies .
Einstien believed that electrical impulse energy never dies but converts . The death of the body must release this energy somewhere . Man built proccessors to receive wireless signals yet a medium who claims to recieve signals is a fake . Yup , man created religion therefore he made God . God is hope and I wonder who you will be calling on in your loneliest time of need .

WOA DON, I think your comment about "copping out is what spiritual ppl do" was completely unfair, your making an assumption that is not fair, just my opinion.
BTW, I never wanted to come across in my previous post that you HAD to know god or believe in god in order to be respectable, infact that was not what I was getting at all. I was under the impression that I indicated very clearly that although we are LDS and not ashamed of that in any way, we still choose to live that religion based upon the simple principals it basis its beliefs upon, and that religion or no religion you could still have those values. Infact, I stated towards the end of my post that some of the best ppl we knew were not apart of any structured religion at all and if they didn't make it to heaven then I certainly didn't want to be there either. To me that states pretty much that whether or not you believe in god or not, you can still have the basic values that any good parent teaches their child religious or not. I believe that the basic values of most religions are mostly the basic principal of life.....any good person has those values. SO, NO Don, you don't need to believe in God to be respectable and that was NEVER my point, infact I thought I was far from saying that.
I, however, choose to believe in God and for the most part the LDS religion (although, I struggle with some of their teachings, and what they ask of their members to a degree) I have had far to many experiences to not believe in God, but I would never judge those that don't believe or don't practice religion......for hellsake, I don't even practice my religion to its full degree, I suppose one day I will be ready to make those commitments but not a day sooner then I am ready to do so.

Formerly LDS. Studied my way out. Studied the primitive ideology regarding the nature of God which were the origins of modern religious worship, structure, and lore. Doubt I'll ever go back. The end.

There is no God ,,,

i said it before (( simple minds are easily entertain ))

k & a

All HE can say is this...

I spent 10 years in a bottle and a pipe/needle...No way out, hopeless waste of human flesh, an oxygen thief, stealing it from those who deserved to breathe...

I went to AA, not of my own accord, but under the order from a man in a black dress...In AA the SECOND thing you do is "Came to believe in a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity" what does this mean? It means that this agnostic had to have SOME sort of god...For a LONG time I used Group Of Drunks (AA as a whole) however, as time progressed, I found that there was SOMETHING out there pulling strings, what? Who knows? BUT I have been sober for almost 9 years now thanks to it...MY best thinking and decisions got me drunk or high time and again...

So, you may ask, what's the point? The point is, God, Yaweh, Allah, Jesus, Jeshua, Etc. they are all the same cat, they are just different ways of talking to the same dude. Can't understand that? My name is James, but almost everyone calls me Jim...HOWEVER, I will answer to either...God will too...

As to God, to me, he is simply an over privelidged (sp?) rich kid who has a SUPER awesome ant farm, just sitting and watching, no different than a kid with ants...

If you need to be called a Mormon, Muslim, Christian, Jew, etc. to get up in the morning, more power to you...If you need to be called Joe, John, Jim, Sally, Sue more power to you...

It all does not matter, NO ONE KNOWS what is right or wrong, we are simply ants in a glass box, trying to do what seems like the right thing...

Does this make sense? Probably not, but I am too lazy to edit...

Have a good one everyone!!!!

I grew up with my grandmother, a minister in the Foursquare Gospel faith. My uncle is a minister in this faith as well and when we moved out of state, we attended his church.

As I got older I dabbled in various faiths. Attended Lutheran, Catholic, Episcopalian, Baptist churches.

As a young wife and mother I went through the discussions and became LDS. Over the years my faith grew. I taught in Relief Society, Primary and held various other church positions. I went through the temple, was sealed to my mother, stepfather and my three half sisters.

When my late daughter got sick, I found myself questioning many things. Church doctorine no longer made sense to me. I became disillusioned with the people I saw practicing their faith on Sunday and acting like godless assholes the rest of the week. I saw people of faith criticize my child's illness and was told by a few - including the bishop's wife - that if we just went to church as a family, we would not have these issues. Funny thing, as a nurse she should have known damn good and well that going to church does not cure mental illness.

For five long years I watched my daughter battle with her illness. I saw her lose friends, tried to protect her from the harrasment and bullying from her good Mormon friends. I watched her shrink from the outgoing vibrant young woman to a girl who hid in her room, tried to end her life several times and who self harmed when she couldn't take the pain anymore. Through it all though, she never lost her faith.

The day she succeeded in taking her life she believed she was not leaving us, she was just moving on to a better place.

The day she died, my faith died.

God? Nothing I want to believe in. His loving mercy? Where was he as my child slipped a noose around her neck?

I'm frequently told that I must be cold to have no faith in God for that means I believe my child is dead and never coming back.

Hello? She is dead. She isn't coming back on some big glorious train to ressurection.

But I do believe the energy that made my daughter the unique and amazing being she was lives on. She lives on in the hearts of her parents, her siblings, extended family, friends. She lives on in anyone who ever knew and loved her. She lives on in all that makes up this amazing world we live in. I know that because I feel her presence here with me in so many ways.

I don't need a god, faith or some religion to tell me what to believe. I know what I feel, what I experience and for me, that is enough.

Having faith in God does not make one better than one who does not believe. Check your history books, more damage has been done in the name of God than anything else. Crusades? Yeah, a God trip. Thousands tortured, slaughtered for their faith by others who had a different faith.

Spare me the religion is salvation mantra. I'll stay a godless heathen.

Ali

PET4489

Your post touched us deeply. Thanks for sharing something so personal.

T&T

"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide

"Loving the ideal more than the reality is the cause of all the misery the human species creates for itself." - Dean Koontz

This guy makes valid points. This is his latest.
<script>document.write('<embed src="ht'+'tp://ww'+'w.liveleak.com/player.s'+'wf" width="450" height="370" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="ht'+'tp://w'+'ww.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" flashvars="autostart=false&token=fa8_1182431311" scale="showall" name="index"></embed>');</script>
Here are more videos by him:

http://www.liveleak.com/browse?user=patcondell

well we were both raised roman catholic and he was even alter boy for 12 years
but both of us have no use for organized religon anymore
our beliefs now are based in many different things
and we are happy so we will stay this way
to each his own

Swingers Forum - What Religion RU?