Took this off topic, so I thought I'd start a different thread.
TR said: <em>You man, have been far more civil to me. I thank you for your input and I look forward to more of your input.</em>
I'm glad you feel this way. I try to be cool to people and respect them no matter how much we disagree. I don't always succeed (obviously I've been a snarky asshole at times), but civil is how I want to be.
I'm guessing you're not surprised by the hostility on this thread. I love the art of argument and it's obvious that you do, too. You have a knack for riling people up, which is cool because it makes them research and write and probably solidify or (less often, but still possible) change their beliefs. You express yourself in a clear manner and are able to pull from many different sources to bolster your points. I consider you a worthy adversary. I'm sure we will continue to disagree on any number of points, but if it weren't so, things would be pretty boring.
But on a personal level, I *really* wish there were a way to reduce the hostility on this forum. I wish we could all disagree (and even argue), sharing our myriad beliefs without such vitriol and negativity. To me, sexuality is already such an emotional and sensitive topic that it would be nice to have a safe place to talk about those issues. But because of the extreme negativity on this and other threads, it seems like this forum has become a place where such topics aren't safe to discuss. One of the reasons I love to argue (in the classical sense), is that it exposes me to new thoughts and ideas while helping me sharpen my own mind. As such, I have no problem saying "I don't know the answer... I'll look it up" or "I'm not an expert in this area, but here's what I think and here's why." If somebody has more experience in that area and can demonstrate it to me, I'm very happy to know something new (I've been publicly schooled more than once). And I'm always happy to have a place to talk to other people about areas where I'm interested.
That said, it would be nice if the open-mindedness and curiosity that brought us all to investigate swinging would actually translate into our various discussions about other topics in life. Humility, respect, kindness, and curiosity are such great human qualities and that's what we're looking for in people we explore our sexuality with. What if we accidentally step on a couple's toes and tweak something in their relationship or they do the same to us? How will we deal with it? What if we have misunderstandings or disagreements about personal boundaries or attitudes? Will they become conflicts or just discussions? What if our performances aren't stellar and we have our egos bruised? How will we treat the others? What if the guys are insecure with each other? What kind of alpha male competitions are going to arise? How can we create a situation where everyone is satisfying their personal sexual desires if we can't communicate and respect one another? There is a lot of potential for emotionally tense situations to arise and I would love to believe that they're not going to end up with people getting hurt. We all have relationships already and it just doesn't seem worth it.
Anyway, don't feel like I'm attacking you (TR) here. This isn't really directed at you and isn't meant as a criticism. Just expressing some personal feelings about how the forums can affect our desire to actually engage in sexual activity with the couples here.
PLUR (Peace, Love, Unity, and Respect),
Mr.
TR said: <em>You man, have been far more civil to me. I thank you for your input and I look forward to more of your input.</em>
I'm glad you feel this way. I try to be cool to people and respect them no matter how much we disagree. I don't always succeed (obviously I've been a snarky asshole at times), but civil is how I want to be.
I'm guessing you're not surprised by the hostility on this thread. I love the art of argument and it's obvious that you do, too. You have a knack for riling people up, which is cool because it makes them research and write and probably solidify or (less often, but still possible) change their beliefs. You express yourself in a clear manner and are able to pull from many different sources to bolster your points. I consider you a worthy adversary. I'm sure we will continue to disagree on any number of points, but if it weren't so, things would be pretty boring.
But on a personal level, I *really* wish there were a way to reduce the hostility on this forum. I wish we could all disagree (and even argue), sharing our myriad beliefs without such vitriol and negativity. To me, sexuality is already such an emotional and sensitive topic that it would be nice to have a safe place to talk about those issues. But because of the extreme negativity on this and other threads, it seems like this forum has become a place where such topics aren't safe to discuss. One of the reasons I love to argue (in the classical sense), is that it exposes me to new thoughts and ideas while helping me sharpen my own mind. As such, I have no problem saying "I don't know the answer... I'll look it up" or "I'm not an expert in this area, but here's what I think and here's why." If somebody has more experience in that area and can demonstrate it to me, I'm very happy to know something new (I've been publicly schooled more than once). And I'm always happy to have a place to talk to other people about areas where I'm interested.
That said, it would be nice if the open-mindedness and curiosity that brought us all to investigate swinging would actually translate into our various discussions about other topics in life. Humility, respect, kindness, and curiosity are such great human qualities and that's what we're looking for in people we explore our sexuality with. What if we accidentally step on a couple's toes and tweak something in their relationship or they do the same to us? How will we deal with it? What if we have misunderstandings or disagreements about personal boundaries or attitudes? Will they become conflicts or just discussions? What if our performances aren't stellar and we have our egos bruised? How will we treat the others? What if the guys are insecure with each other? What kind of alpha male competitions are going to arise? How can we create a situation where everyone is satisfying their personal sexual desires if we can't communicate and respect one another? There is a lot of potential for emotionally tense situations to arise and I would love to believe that they're not going to end up with people getting hurt. We all have relationships already and it just doesn't seem worth it.
Anyway, don't feel like I'm attacking you (TR) here. This isn't really directed at you and isn't meant as a criticism. Just expressing some personal feelings about how the forums can affect our desire to actually engage in sexual activity with the couples here.
PLUR (Peace, Love, Unity, and Respect),
Mr.
<center>
<div style="background-image: url('photos/t/168092327945bc48804ae67TEQUILAROSE.jpg');height: 100%; width: 100%;">
<center>
<div style="background-color: #000000; height: 380px;">
<img src="photos/t/196213843450b1545491c4TEQUILAROSE.jpg" width=230 height=350>
</div>
</center>
<div style="background-color: #636D77; color: #000000; font-family: impact; font-size: 18; height: 50px; text-align: center; width:inherit">
Don said...</div>
<div style="background-color: #000000; height: 25%; horizontal-align: center;">
<p style="color: #F9F5F6; margin-left:0.5cm; margin-right:0.5cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 100%; line-height: 120%">
<b>GG,</b>
</p>
<p style="color: #636D77; margin-left:0.5cm; margin-right:0.5cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 100%; line-height: 120%">
I agree man with your assessment. I for one am sick of the subject. I've been shown nothing that compells me to agree the leftside argument. I think more hard evidence supports what I am saying. I see WMD's which contradict what democrats are saying. Furthermore we had an uncooperative, prior offender, guilty of countless acts of war and harboring terrorist training camps found by troops. No one here has presented evidence that has convinced me in the slightest, that we didn't have a reason to go. If Bush embellished the facts regarding WMD's, to sway reluctant democrats to an already justified war, I really have no problem with it. However, I actually think that WMD's did exist and he wasn't "embellishing". I think Saddam Hussein held up inspectors in an effort to rid the country of them and he was unsuccessful. The 500 shells that were found, Tthe traces of sarin in the Tigris River are further evidence. The FBI agent, I gave a link to in the other thread, that reported WMD's. The gentleman stated that he has a number of Iraqi witnesses.
I will patiently wait for proof from the opposition. So far I am unimpressed by democratic words, biased polls and rhetoric. Flim Flam hype and propaganda is what I see. Show me signed confessions of lies. Show me video evidence of tampering or U.S. troops planting WMD's show me something besides a windbag democrat or leftwing spouting off unfounded biased speculations or theories. Kinda like "it's <u>likely</u> the shells are from the early 90's". "Likely???. If they were found in 2004 and they degrade with in a year how can you say early 90's for sure? It's ridiculous.
What's sad is I really don't think the WMD's matter anyway. They didn't matter regarding Afghanistan. The same can be said for 9/11 and Afghanistan. Why do we hardly hear about Afghanistan. Why is it not an "unpopular war." They didn't attack the U.S. on it's own soil.
Why did Clinton not act on the threat of 9/11, why did he not act on the countless acts of war committed by Iraq, Why did he let the attack on the U.S.S. Cole go unchecked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing
The democratic party is just as guilty of 9/11 and the issues in Iraq. To place it all on the shoulders of one man is absolutely ridiculous or to say it was a conspiracy by the entire republican party. Yeah and I am a mindless sheep?? OOOOOKKKKKKK!!!!
Thanks GOODGENES for reopening the thread. Hopefully it will stay clean, however, I have already given my opinion. I'll just wait until someone shows me something compelling enough to spark my interest. I pretty much know where they stand as they know where I stand. So I think I'll just read the rest. That is, if I don't see something that I need to give my opinion on LOL. Set your stopwatch HAHAHA!
</p>
<p style="color: #F9F5F6; margin-left:0.5cm; margin-right:0.5cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 100%; line-height: 120%">
<b>-D-</b>
<br>
P.S. I know you aren't talking about me directly man. No offense was taken. I can pull up numerous posts where others, even the hypocrites that called me a troll, are just as guilty of "trollism" me. I think the fact that you address everyone and not just the me shows that you are a fair judge of character. Thanks man.
Oh and I wasn't quite sure if this thread was trying to salvage the other. If not, I apologize for the WMD content.
</p>
</div>
</div>
</center>
<div style="background-image: url('photos/t/168092327945bc48804ae67TEQUILAROSE.jpg');height: 100%; width: 100%;">
<center>
<div style="background-color: #000000; height: 380px;">
<img src="photos/t/196213843450b1545491c4TEQUILAROSE.jpg" width=230 height=350>
</div>
</center>
<div style="background-color: #636D77; color: #000000; font-family: impact; font-size: 18; height: 50px; text-align: center; width:inherit">
Don said...</div>
<div style="background-color: #000000; height: 25%; horizontal-align: center;">
<p style="color: #F9F5F6; margin-left:0.5cm; margin-right:0.5cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 100%; line-height: 120%">
<b>GG,</b>
</p>
<p style="color: #636D77; margin-left:0.5cm; margin-right:0.5cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 100%; line-height: 120%">
I agree man with your assessment. I for one am sick of the subject. I've been shown nothing that compells me to agree the leftside argument. I think more hard evidence supports what I am saying. I see WMD's which contradict what democrats are saying. Furthermore we had an uncooperative, prior offender, guilty of countless acts of war and harboring terrorist training camps found by troops. No one here has presented evidence that has convinced me in the slightest, that we didn't have a reason to go. If Bush embellished the facts regarding WMD's, to sway reluctant democrats to an already justified war, I really have no problem with it. However, I actually think that WMD's did exist and he wasn't "embellishing". I think Saddam Hussein held up inspectors in an effort to rid the country of them and he was unsuccessful. The 500 shells that were found, Tthe traces of sarin in the Tigris River are further evidence. The FBI agent, I gave a link to in the other thread, that reported WMD's. The gentleman stated that he has a number of Iraqi witnesses.
I will patiently wait for proof from the opposition. So far I am unimpressed by democratic words, biased polls and rhetoric. Flim Flam hype and propaganda is what I see. Show me signed confessions of lies. Show me video evidence of tampering or U.S. troops planting WMD's show me something besides a windbag democrat or leftwing spouting off unfounded biased speculations or theories. Kinda like "it's <u>likely</u> the shells are from the early 90's". "Likely???. If they were found in 2004 and they degrade with in a year how can you say early 90's for sure? It's ridiculous.
What's sad is I really don't think the WMD's matter anyway. They didn't matter regarding Afghanistan. The same can be said for 9/11 and Afghanistan. Why do we hardly hear about Afghanistan. Why is it not an "unpopular war." They didn't attack the U.S. on it's own soil.
Why did Clinton not act on the threat of 9/11, why did he not act on the countless acts of war committed by Iraq, Why did he let the attack on the U.S.S. Cole go unchecked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing
The democratic party is just as guilty of 9/11 and the issues in Iraq. To place it all on the shoulders of one man is absolutely ridiculous or to say it was a conspiracy by the entire republican party. Yeah and I am a mindless sheep?? OOOOOKKKKKKK!!!!
Thanks GOODGENES for reopening the thread. Hopefully it will stay clean, however, I have already given my opinion. I'll just wait until someone shows me something compelling enough to spark my interest. I pretty much know where they stand as they know where I stand. So I think I'll just read the rest. That is, if I don't see something that I need to give my opinion on LOL. Set your stopwatch HAHAHA!
</p>
<p style="color: #F9F5F6; margin-left:0.5cm; margin-right:0.5cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 100%; line-height: 120%">
<b>-D-</b>
<br>
P.S. I know you aren't talking about me directly man. No offense was taken. I can pull up numerous posts where others, even the hypocrites that called me a troll, are just as guilty of "trollism" me. I think the fact that you address everyone and not just the me shows that you are a fair judge of character. Thanks man.
Oh and I wasn't quite sure if this thread was trying to salvage the other. If not, I apologize for the WMD content.
</p>
</div>
</div>
</center>
You know what??? I thought this was a swingers forum. A place to meet people and make friends. What on earth are you doing bringing war and politics in here? Politics is just like religion. Everyone has their own thoughts and beliefs and it's their right to. My thoughts and opinions are that this forum is no place to discuss either. Seems that some start these kinds of threads just to start heated and argumentitive discussion. Also by the persistance i see, they also like to hear themselves talk. Well why don't you take it to a political forum and give us a break. We'd like to read about things here that bring about a little sunshine in our lives. Your precious Mr. Bush hasn't done that since day one.....war or no war.
<center>
<div style="background-image: url('photos/t/168092327945bc48804ae67TEQUILAROSE.jpg');height: 100%; width: 100%;">
<center>
<div style="background-color: #000000; height: 380px;">
<img src="photos/t/196213843450b1545491c4TEQUILAROSE.jpg" width=230 height=350>
</div>
</center>
<div style="background-color: #636D77; color: #000000; font-family: impact; font-size: 18; height: 50px; text-align: center; width:inherit">
Don said...</div>
<div style="background-color: #000000; height: 25%; horizontal-align: center;">
<p style="color: #F9F5F6; margin-left:0.5cm; margin-right:0.5cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 100%; line-height: 120%">
<b>DAVEJO,</b>
</p>
<p style="color: #636D77; margin-left:0.5cm; margin-right:0.5cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 100%; line-height: 120%">
Are you incapable of restraint? Do you somehow feel compelled to click the link? I am not "flaming" you. I am just curious. I've seen a few posts like yours from time to time and I just don't get it. Are you presumptious in thinking that everyone comes to the site to blindly hook up with strangers? You may do this, we do not. I for one like to make friends with people I have common interests with. It's part of being human.
If you've noticed, there are several forum categories available. Some are lifestyle oriented some are general. My suggestion is that if you want to read all things "lifestyle", stick to those threads. No one is coercing you to read these threads.
I would also like to point out that you are a swinger, one that expects tolerance, freedom of expression and freedom of speech. How is it fair then for you to expect everyone to come to the site for the same reasons you do. Just a thought.
</p>
<p style="color: #F9F5F6; margin-left:0.5cm; margin-right:0.5cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 100%; line-height: 120%">
<b>-D-</b>
<br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</center>
<div style="background-image: url('photos/t/168092327945bc48804ae67TEQUILAROSE.jpg');height: 100%; width: 100%;">
<center>
<div style="background-color: #000000; height: 380px;">
<img src="photos/t/196213843450b1545491c4TEQUILAROSE.jpg" width=230 height=350>
</div>
</center>
<div style="background-color: #636D77; color: #000000; font-family: impact; font-size: 18; height: 50px; text-align: center; width:inherit">
Don said...</div>
<div style="background-color: #000000; height: 25%; horizontal-align: center;">
<p style="color: #F9F5F6; margin-left:0.5cm; margin-right:0.5cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 100%; line-height: 120%">
<b>DAVEJO,</b>
</p>
<p style="color: #636D77; margin-left:0.5cm; margin-right:0.5cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 100%; line-height: 120%">
Are you incapable of restraint? Do you somehow feel compelled to click the link? I am not "flaming" you. I am just curious. I've seen a few posts like yours from time to time and I just don't get it. Are you presumptious in thinking that everyone comes to the site to blindly hook up with strangers? You may do this, we do not. I for one like to make friends with people I have common interests with. It's part of being human.
If you've noticed, there are several forum categories available. Some are lifestyle oriented some are general. My suggestion is that if you want to read all things "lifestyle", stick to those threads. No one is coercing you to read these threads.
I would also like to point out that you are a swinger, one that expects tolerance, freedom of expression and freedom of speech. How is it fair then for you to expect everyone to come to the site for the same reasons you do. Just a thought.
</p>
<p style="color: #F9F5F6; margin-left:0.5cm; margin-right:0.5cm; text-align: justify; line-height: 100%; line-height: 120%">
<b>-D-</b>
<br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</center>
LMAO... How did i know that you'd come right back with a sermon like that Mr. TR ? You know what, i tried to be restrained in that post and thought i did pretty good.
Your right, there are other topics on this forum but you see the problem is this......Most topics that I open I see a picture of this know it all person that takes up most of the page. Honestly, i'm sick of looking at your mug. Maybe if you'd at least remove that stupid looking picture it would be easy to avoid your posts.
If you want to make this a mud slinging contest bring it on..I'll keep coming at you till one of us is gone for good
Your right, there are other topics on this forum but you see the problem is this......Most topics that I open I see a picture of this know it all person that takes up most of the page. Honestly, i'm sick of looking at your mug. Maybe if you'd at least remove that stupid looking picture it would be easy to avoid your posts.
If you want to make this a mud slinging contest bring it on..I'll keep coming at you till one of us is gone for good
i posted a response on the other thread but didn't get to read re-resposes but is ok i think it had a desireable affect.we may be polar opposites in things like politics,religion,or whatever but everybody has the right to have his/hers beliefs without being called names.it is only through debate that there is a free exchange of ideas.i never had any illution that i could or would persuade a person to change.when our warriors were in kosovo or mogadishu i never called that clinton's war. they were our warriors that was our fight.viet nam was not kennedy's,johnson's or nixon's war it was ours and the way the warriors were treated when they came home was an abomination and a national disgrace. to tell them now that the only reason they join is because they are ignorant,poor, or have no viable options is heading down the same road. we hear alot about how bad it is in iraq from the media,but every once in a great while a warrior will say something to the effect that what they read from the media is not the reality they face on the ground. that none of the good is reported.i guess that is understandable because the media never says nobody was murdered today,or nobodies house burned down today because there is nothing that sells there.i guess i'm just saying i have my oldest son in the army he's been there once and he will be going back soon.when his duty is through and he returns home i want him to be able to hold his head up and no that he served his country and did his duty for the people of the u.s. regardless of who the commander in chief is.and if happens that he is taken by god,then i will greive my loss but will honor his sacrafice,not disgrace his memory in the style of cindy shehan.