Here is an interesting question that I would like to get your feelings on.
We have had a few experiences where we have gone to a lifestyle party, where several people were present, and it almost seemed like a lot of the other people there seemd to feel like it was just fine to flirt with, and play with one of us, but when I suggested that we go off and play together as a couple, the other was not interested.
Or worse, in situations where we were one of three couples all playing together, We will call ourselves couple A, and we had played with couple B (the hosts) before (just the 2 couples) . Couple B had also played with couple C before. But we, (couple A) had never played with couple C before.
I, the male half of couple A was really attracted to the female half of couple C, and her husband was really attracted to my lady.
As it turned out, the Female part of couple C ended up playing with the male (host) from couple B, His wife, (the hostess) ended up playing with me, and that meant that the male part of couple C was having his fun with my beautiful wife.
At some point, we finished round one, and the hosts went to check on the other guests, and so I was interested in switching things around a bit, and to try and get with the woman from couple C, and so I went in to the bathroom, washed up, freshened my breath with some mouthwash, etc. and then I went and and lied down next to the woman from Couple C and started talking, and lightly carressing her. I gave her some fairly strong hints that I was interested in playing, (keep in mind that her husband was still up on the bed enjoying my more beautiful half. )
She let me know that she really wasn't interested in playing with me, but "we could talk if I wanted to"...
So we talked while the sounds of her husband being thoroughly pleasured by my wife filled the room. Needless to say it was awkward, I was a little miffed, and felt rejected, but I was not going to stop them and say to this guy, "OK, you two have to stop now, since your wife doesn't seem to know how to play fair!!!" I'm more tactful and discreet than that, and besides, I enjoy knowing that my wife is being pleasured.
So here is my question. Is there a happy medium between "Free Will" and "playing fair" in the lifestyle? Which should take precendence? Just because your partner is playing with one part of a couple, should that obligate you in any way to reciprocate with the other part of the couple? Was it wrong for this woman to refuse to want to play with me, when her husband was up on the bed doing my wife?
I do believe in free will in the lifestyle. I believe that a person or couple should always have the right to say no, and that no should mean no. But personally, I feel like you should excercise that free will BEFORE your husband or wife starts playing with someone elses wife or husband, and that you should discuss with each other whether or not you are completely comfortable with playong with BOTH parts of the couple before one or the other proceeds to do so with either part of the other couple. That is the time to excercise your lifestyle free will, not AFTER your husband or wife has already played with someone elses wife or husband.
I think that some people believe that in the lifestyle, in a large group situation, that either part of a couple should be able to just go and play with anyone that they are attracted to, without feeling that their partner or spouse should have any obligation to reciprocate to the associated spouse/partner. I disagree. Am I wrong to feel this way? I believe that couples should play as couples, and that any time that someone is made to feel left out, or rejected, that is wrong.
Please share with me your feelings on this matter! I really am curious what other couples think.
We have had a few experiences where we have gone to a lifestyle party, where several people were present, and it almost seemed like a lot of the other people there seemd to feel like it was just fine to flirt with, and play with one of us, but when I suggested that we go off and play together as a couple, the other was not interested.
Or worse, in situations where we were one of three couples all playing together, We will call ourselves couple A, and we had played with couple B (the hosts) before (just the 2 couples) . Couple B had also played with couple C before. But we, (couple A) had never played with couple C before.
I, the male half of couple A was really attracted to the female half of couple C, and her husband was really attracted to my lady.
As it turned out, the Female part of couple C ended up playing with the male (host) from couple B, His wife, (the hostess) ended up playing with me, and that meant that the male part of couple C was having his fun with my beautiful wife.
At some point, we finished round one, and the hosts went to check on the other guests, and so I was interested in switching things around a bit, and to try and get with the woman from couple C, and so I went in to the bathroom, washed up, freshened my breath with some mouthwash, etc. and then I went and and lied down next to the woman from Couple C and started talking, and lightly carressing her. I gave her some fairly strong hints that I was interested in playing, (keep in mind that her husband was still up on the bed enjoying my more beautiful half. )
She let me know that she really wasn't interested in playing with me, but "we could talk if I wanted to"...
So we talked while the sounds of her husband being thoroughly pleasured by my wife filled the room. Needless to say it was awkward, I was a little miffed, and felt rejected, but I was not going to stop them and say to this guy, "OK, you two have to stop now, since your wife doesn't seem to know how to play fair!!!" I'm more tactful and discreet than that, and besides, I enjoy knowing that my wife is being pleasured.
So here is my question. Is there a happy medium between "Free Will" and "playing fair" in the lifestyle? Which should take precendence? Just because your partner is playing with one part of a couple, should that obligate you in any way to reciprocate with the other part of the couple? Was it wrong for this woman to refuse to want to play with me, when her husband was up on the bed doing my wife?
I do believe in free will in the lifestyle. I believe that a person or couple should always have the right to say no, and that no should mean no. But personally, I feel like you should excercise that free will BEFORE your husband or wife starts playing with someone elses wife or husband, and that you should discuss with each other whether or not you are completely comfortable with playong with BOTH parts of the couple before one or the other proceeds to do so with either part of the other couple. That is the time to excercise your lifestyle free will, not AFTER your husband or wife has already played with someone elses wife or husband.
I think that some people believe that in the lifestyle, in a large group situation, that either part of a couple should be able to just go and play with anyone that they are attracted to, without feeling that their partner or spouse should have any obligation to reciprocate to the associated spouse/partner. I disagree. Am I wrong to feel this way? I believe that couples should play as couples, and that any time that someone is made to feel left out, or rejected, that is wrong.
Please share with me your feelings on this matter! I really am curious what other couples think.
She was not interested...THat is all...For whatever the reason...Apparently your better half was interested in him and he in her...but that does not mean his wife has to be interested in you...Think about it...Is it easier to play with a single or couple? OUr experience is a single...Only 3 people have to get along...IN a couple situation...4 people...More people, more difficult..
As to the group things...We discuss before we go/host...IF we decide to give each other free reign, each of us are free to do as we se fit (Of course we have some rules, condoms is one) but if we do not decide this up front, we do not play that way...
SOrry for your luck, but it is ultimately the ladies' decision as to who plays with whom...
As to the group things...We discuss before we go/host...IF we decide to give each other free reign, each of us are free to do as we se fit (Of course we have some rules, condoms is one) but if we do not decide this up front, we do not play that way...
SOrry for your luck, but it is ultimately the ladies' decision as to who plays with whom...
Well, although it's a little confusing, I would say that *we'd* damn well like to be couple A or couple B - and we'd not likely have any problems 
But, seriously...
My Mom was an English teacher. Sometimes, to make a point clear, people write at length to describe a complex situation - and this is fine, of course. However, you can still reduce the concept to its base, thus:
Your comment: "...some people believe (they)...should be able to play...without feeling ...any obligation to reciprocate... I disagree."
I do realize I've edited out a lot, but the concept is still there. And, almost regretfully, the answer is, too: Of course they feel that way. And - this is strictly our opinion, mind you - no one should ever feel any 'obligation'; no one should ever expect anything. It's just not how things work.
Not to belittle your point - I do sincerely appreciate the great frustration you must have felt. But you can't call it 'playing fair' when what you essentially seek to do is require someone to play, against their will, based on reciprocative obligation. Actually, while it may seem 'fair' on the surface, doing so would be quite the opposite of fair - most certainly to the person(s) who were expected to reciprocate even though they didn't want to.
The key would seem to be having discussed things beforehand to avoid misapprehension, but it appears - as is sometimes regretfully the case - in the heat of a moment, that communication never took place. That being the case, everyone (including you) pretty much agreed, by default, to take whatever came of it.
Sorry I can't agree with your position - but I could offer that, hopefully, you can turn this negative into a positive: There's a very good opportunity here to confront and learn from a common issue that often occurs within the dynamics of this type of relationship.
Good luck
But, seriously...
My Mom was an English teacher. Sometimes, to make a point clear, people write at length to describe a complex situation - and this is fine, of course. However, you can still reduce the concept to its base, thus:
Your comment: "...some people believe (they)...should be able to play...without feeling ...any obligation to reciprocate... I disagree."
I do realize I've edited out a lot, but the concept is still there. And, almost regretfully, the answer is, too: Of course they feel that way. And - this is strictly our opinion, mind you - no one should ever feel any 'obligation'; no one should ever expect anything. It's just not how things work.
Not to belittle your point - I do sincerely appreciate the great frustration you must have felt. But you can't call it 'playing fair' when what you essentially seek to do is require someone to play, against their will, based on reciprocative obligation. Actually, while it may seem 'fair' on the surface, doing so would be quite the opposite of fair - most certainly to the person(s) who were expected to reciprocate even though they didn't want to.
The key would seem to be having discussed things beforehand to avoid misapprehension, but it appears - as is sometimes regretfully the case - in the heat of a moment, that communication never took place. That being the case, everyone (including you) pretty much agreed, by default, to take whatever came of it.
Sorry I can't agree with your position - but I could offer that, hopefully, you can turn this negative into a positive: There's a very good opportunity here to confront and learn from a common issue that often occurs within the dynamics of this type of relationship.
Good luck
I read TORGEN's reply after I wrote my last - and it's a great point...
...but I think there's a distinction (though I could well be wrong). In one case, it appears there's some clear intent to deceive (and apparently a history of doing so), whereas I'd consider the original 'group' situation different, if only because it seems to have been more spontaneous.
Now, in the circumstance TORGEN describes, yes, I think there *might* be reason to be offended. There should still *never* be expectations...but if someone's clearly abusing that principle to spring a trick...well, that's just total bullshit. And, unfortunately, I'm wure it *does* happen, just exactly as described. Unfortunate, really, that people should be so dishonest.
(For the record, I do believe we've had both of the aforementioned situations happen to us, so I do share the perspectives)
In either case, though, all you can really do is a. try to communicate better, hopefully identifying any misconceptions ahead of time - yours or theirs, and b. in the unfortunate cases where things like this happen...live and learn.
As an aside, we have missed out on (probably) a lot of fun, because the people involved apparently didn't want to make time to communicate up front, before considering sex. We've gone to lengths, putting very clear wording in our profile about this; we simply don't want to leave room for misunderstandings like this. And, while we may have missed out on some fun, I think we've also avoided a lot of BS like the above by insisting on getting to know people before we move forward. Not the raciest form of lifestyle fun, but certainly less disappointing. We lived and learned.
...but I think there's a distinction (though I could well be wrong). In one case, it appears there's some clear intent to deceive (and apparently a history of doing so), whereas I'd consider the original 'group' situation different, if only because it seems to have been more spontaneous.
Now, in the circumstance TORGEN describes, yes, I think there *might* be reason to be offended. There should still *never* be expectations...but if someone's clearly abusing that principle to spring a trick...well, that's just total bullshit. And, unfortunately, I'm wure it *does* happen, just exactly as described. Unfortunate, really, that people should be so dishonest.
(For the record, I do believe we've had both of the aforementioned situations happen to us, so I do share the perspectives)
In either case, though, all you can really do is a. try to communicate better, hopefully identifying any misconceptions ahead of time - yours or theirs, and b. in the unfortunate cases where things like this happen...live and learn.
As an aside, we have missed out on (probably) a lot of fun, because the people involved apparently didn't want to make time to communicate up front, before considering sex. We've gone to lengths, putting very clear wording in our profile about this; we simply don't want to leave room for misunderstandings like this. And, while we may have missed out on some fun, I think we've also avoided a lot of BS like the above by insisting on getting to know people before we move forward. Not the raciest form of lifestyle fun, but certainly less disappointing. We lived and learned.
We would have to agree with SSN. In the first case it would seem to us that the implied rules were whomever wanted to play with whomever, was free to do so. I (male) might have had a momnets frustration, but would have been happy that the mrs was having a good time , and left it at that.
In the second case however we agree that there seemed to be a clear case of deception going on. That would have been harder to forgive.
Just our opinion
T and V
In the second case however we agree that there seemed to be a clear case of deception going on. That would have been harder to forgive.
Just our opinion
T and V
I think the problem with this entire question is this .................. If you have to use the words," playing fair", you will probably always encounter these types of problems in a group situation. We have found most group encounters to be awkward because of this very reason. Everyone's idea of what "playing fair" means is going to be different, so how do you enforce the "rules?" Maybe there should be a big sign at the front door listing the rules......... NOT! ......... I know I have said this before, but I just don't see how the words, rules and playing fair, fit into the lifestyle.
I can see/feel/understand the disappointment in that situation, but then I have to ask how would you feel if she had gone ahead and played fair cuz it was the right thing to do. Do you really think either of you would have enjoyed it? Her lack of enthusiasm for the situation would, I think, have put a damper on the festivities.
Personally, the last thing I would want is to be with someone because they feel obligated by expections (whether they come from the situation or their partner - as is often the case in bi-curious situations). Yes, your situation was frustrating and not the best one to be in, but it could've been worse - she might have said, "Oh what the hell, lets do it." Just a thought.
-SG
Personally, the last thing I would want is to be with someone because they feel obligated by expections (whether they come from the situation or their partner - as is often the case in bi-curious situations). Yes, your situation was frustrating and not the best one to be in, but it could've been worse - she might have said, "Oh what the hell, lets do it." Just a thought.
-SG
WOW! Thats all I can say to this. Now I do agree that if someone isn't into doing something then they have that right to decline no matter what; the word NO should be always respected. You never know the why's. The reason for her declining could have nothing to do with you or her attraction to you. There have been times that I have not wanted to do something but it absolutely had NOTHING to do with the other person. I wouldn't take it personal, not at all. You never know what that reason is.
As far as your wife not listening to you that there was a problem, well....in my opinion, I find that incredibly RUDE of her and disrespectful. I know everyone thinks differently but in a situation like that my husband and I always keep eye contact through out, if I looked over and saw that he was just sitting there with the other women I would give him our look to make sure he was ok. If he said "we have a problem" I would certainly stop what I was doing and find out what that problem was. My husband likes to watch me be pleasured but before I go on and be pleasured by some other man I am going to make sure that he is OK with just watching. I am not trying to be disrespectful to your wife but that is just how I see it. having said that though, I think that the other husband was incredibly rude as well for not giving a shit what you thought of him continueing or not with your beautiful wife.
As far as fair play....I dunno. I think that when you go into a group setting like that you need to be sure everyone is okay with everyone else because you know dam well that people like to switch it up some, and rotate for lack of better words. Thats why I wonder if maybe she just didn't feel well after the round 1 or maybe something upset or offended her, or hurt her from the first round. Even then, though....her husband should have been more considerate of not only his wife but of you, the other husband.
Just my opinion. Somtimes I wonder if it's all worth it....all you have to deal with...to many feelings, and to much to consider. LOL!
As far as your wife not listening to you that there was a problem, well....in my opinion, I find that incredibly RUDE of her and disrespectful. I know everyone thinks differently but in a situation like that my husband and I always keep eye contact through out, if I looked over and saw that he was just sitting there with the other women I would give him our look to make sure he was ok. If he said "we have a problem" I would certainly stop what I was doing and find out what that problem was. My husband likes to watch me be pleasured but before I go on and be pleasured by some other man I am going to make sure that he is OK with just watching. I am not trying to be disrespectful to your wife but that is just how I see it. having said that though, I think that the other husband was incredibly rude as well for not giving a shit what you thought of him continueing or not with your beautiful wife.
As far as fair play....I dunno. I think that when you go into a group setting like that you need to be sure everyone is okay with everyone else because you know dam well that people like to switch it up some, and rotate for lack of better words. Thats why I wonder if maybe she just didn't feel well after the round 1 or maybe something upset or offended her, or hurt her from the first round. Even then, though....her husband should have been more considerate of not only his wife but of you, the other husband.
Just my opinion. Somtimes I wonder if it's all worth it....all you have to deal with...to many feelings, and to much to consider. LOL!
We also agree with the getting to know someone. And hopefully not encountering this problem.
We play together never separate, and we also both must be attracted to the other couple.
If one doesn't play then neither of us play.
Just seems to be allot easier and less problems arise if everyone agrees before hand that everyone will be involved.
Luckly, we haven't incountered this problem, but one close to it lol
Where we all 4 were having a great time, and the male I was with finished before his female partner did, and she must have felt obligated to him to stop at the same time also
That is the only problem we have ran into, though not a real problem.
Good luck to you all
Enjoy hot sex and good friends
We play together never separate, and we also both must be attracted to the other couple.
If one doesn't play then neither of us play.
Just seems to be allot easier and less problems arise if everyone agrees before hand that everyone will be involved.
Luckly, we haven't incountered this problem, but one close to it lol
Where we all 4 were having a great time, and the male I was with finished before his female partner did, and she must have felt obligated to him to stop at the same time also
That is the only problem we have ran into, though not a real problem.
Good luck to you all
Enjoy hot sex and good friends
Just my opinion, but if the lady wasnt interested, my wife would have been having a threesome and the soft swap lady would have been left alone. But we always make sure each other is having fun and that mutual interest is there before we split up and focus on another. If they want soft swap, they can do that as a couple and my wife and I will remain together..If they want my wife to help with a threesome fantasy, have the common courtesy to ask our permission instead of that bullshit. I'll take pics or something because my wife will take care of me later..We have friends that we chat with that we know that we are not what they are looking for sexually but we are still friends..We ask that if someone is not attracted to either one of us, say just that!! Our feelings wont be hurt at all. But as for the "being tricked" , It sounds that way to me also and I would have been as pissed but I would have said something to them instead of avoiding them.
Some may disagree with this but in any lifestyle situation one needs to at least know what or how, you as a couple will play or simply bow out gracefully and see if someone else wants to play.. Groups or group settings are not reall for couples who want to swap, couple for couple. Everyone is there to have fun with whoever is willing... House parties and on premise clubs (very similar to a house party but larger) seem to operate on the principal of open fun.. not couple to couple... You will find the open concept quite common in the environment you describe.... particularly in larger groups... If there were only 3 couples there then FA & MC with MA and FB and MB with FC would work fine and did. Now if FC wouldn't want to play with either MC or MA then there is a problem unless MA & MC were Bi.. Then FC would be doing neddle point or reading a book or joining MC and FB to from a FFM or FMF between FA & FC and MC or the MC&FAFC or would that be the FA&CMCor the F&MCFA So the solution is simple and coule be right at hand... or the MAC
Too confusing for me... Have fun .. THe lifestyle is about fantacy and fun. Share and share alike is not necessarily a lifestyle concept... Works fine for kids but not in group lifestyle situations...
:v 
:$:
Too confusing for me... Have fun .. THe lifestyle is about fantacy and fun. Share and share alike is not necessarily a lifestyle concept... Works fine for kids but not in group lifestyle situations...
:v :$:We are not real crazy about the group things. We like things more intimate. On the other hand, we DO attend some group things because of the social fun. Party animals! LOL. When we do, we try not to even think about what the other is doing. If my partner grabs a guy (or girl) and drags them into the bedroom and fucks/sucks their brains out......... Good for her. If I run into a women in the hallway, and she looks at me and says,"Let's fuck," I'm not going to go check with my partner. We recently attended a house party where nothing much was going on. It was like nobody knew what to do. Finally, 2 couples went into the living room, got nekkid, and started fucking in full view of everyone else. Cool, no problem. I noticed the male part of another couple was starting to pay attention to my girl (touching, kissing, etc.) After going outside to smoke and returning, I saw that they were gone. To the bedroom no doubt......... Duh. His wife and I had been playing games (eye games, glancing touches, a little kiss here and there) before that and continued doing that. We were having fun! Eventually, we slipped off into a bedroom and had a great time. I found out later that he was soooo concerned about why his wife and I had not started doing anything, that he diminished any fun he and my girl could have had. All in the name of "playing fair," I think. Aren't we all there to have sexual fun? Do we have to keep score? If one gets laid, and the other doesn't........... OK......... I, for one, don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't desire the same with me, and figuring that out is half the fun. Right?????
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Don said...</div>
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<b>SLCWANDERLUST</b>,
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We would never allow such things. Our philosophy is "Couples who play together, Stay Together." To each their own however.
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<b>-D-</b>
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Don said...</div>
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<b>SLCWANDERLUST</b>,
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We would never allow such things. Our philosophy is "Couples who play together, Stay Together." To each their own however.
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<b>-D-</b>
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Thank you everyone for their comments. You have given me some fresh perspectives.
So is it generally accepted at an on premise club or house party that each party should be able to have free reign? I know many couples have a rule that they only play together, and others are fine with letting their spouses go off and have their fun.
I do have to say, that I have seen on occasion when at a large house party, in the case of couples where they give each other "free reign" it is more often the women that are dragged off to a bedroom, to play with other women, men, or both, and their husbands are often left standing in the kitchen hopefully cool with the situation, but I honestly have to say that I have seen cases where it was obvious that some of the other men that were "left out" were a little perturbed at being excluded from the fun.
So when you have such a mix of ideals and norms, how can you keep from stepping over someone's boundaries?
By the way, StichUtah, I don't blame my wife or think she was rude at all, it would have been much more awkward had she seen me sitting there on the floor just talking, and had she stopped playing with this other woman's husband and basically said, "well, if my guy isn't getting any, yours isn't either".
One thing I have learned as a result of all of this is that there is an entirely different set of dynamics involved when you have three couples all playing together compared to only two.
Two couples is much easier. It's either "go or no go", (Unless of course you encounter the situation described in Torgan's posting where the other couple was basically trying to pull a fast one...)
We have played with two other couples before at the same time, and we ahd an amazing time, but my advice would be before you get involved in a three couple situation, that all 3 of the couples should know each other well, and have played together, so there is no potential awkwardness just because one person isn't comfortable playing with someone else.
Thanks again everyone for your insights!
So is it generally accepted at an on premise club or house party that each party should be able to have free reign? I know many couples have a rule that they only play together, and others are fine with letting their spouses go off and have their fun.
I do have to say, that I have seen on occasion when at a large house party, in the case of couples where they give each other "free reign" it is more often the women that are dragged off to a bedroom, to play with other women, men, or both, and their husbands are often left standing in the kitchen hopefully cool with the situation, but I honestly have to say that I have seen cases where it was obvious that some of the other men that were "left out" were a little perturbed at being excluded from the fun.
So when you have such a mix of ideals and norms, how can you keep from stepping over someone's boundaries?
By the way, StichUtah, I don't blame my wife or think she was rude at all, it would have been much more awkward had she seen me sitting there on the floor just talking, and had she stopped playing with this other woman's husband and basically said, "well, if my guy isn't getting any, yours isn't either".
One thing I have learned as a result of all of this is that there is an entirely different set of dynamics involved when you have three couples all playing together compared to only two.
Two couples is much easier. It's either "go or no go", (Unless of course you encounter the situation described in Torgan's posting where the other couple was basically trying to pull a fast one...)
We have played with two other couples before at the same time, and we ahd an amazing time, but my advice would be before you get involved in a three couple situation, that all 3 of the couples should know each other well, and have played together, so there is no potential awkwardness just because one person isn't comfortable playing with someone else.
Thanks again everyone for your insights!
I hope that it didn't cause problems between you and your lovely lady....I didn't want to come off harsh. You had mentioned in your begininng post that when things came to a stop with the other wife you had said outloud..."we have a problem". This is why I began to feel that maybe your wife and the other husband might should've at least stopped and acknowledged what that problem was. I think that I found it more disturbing that the other husband didn't stop and make sure you were okay with what was taking place...if even to say "hey you okay with this" or some sorda acknowledgment to you, just out of respect.
I realize everyone may do things differently, but what works for us is keeping eye contact with one another, as I mentioned b4 in my earlier post. If something isn't right with either one of us then we put an end to it, regardless whether or not it is awkward or not. If he isn't ok, then I am not ok....and vice versa. Maybe you were fine with watching....if you were, I certainly hope you got to see what you like....(GRIN)
I realize everyone may do things differently, but what works for us is keeping eye contact with one another, as I mentioned b4 in my earlier post. If something isn't right with either one of us then we put an end to it, regardless whether or not it is awkward or not. If he isn't ok, then I am not ok....and vice versa. Maybe you were fine with watching....if you were, I certainly hope you got to see what you like....(GRIN)
StitchUtah, actually, that wasn\t my posting where I said "We have a problem". I said that I wouldn't go interrupting them to say that we have a problem. now that would really be awkward, even though the other couple really deserved for me to.
I am still a little bit shocked that it seems that the majority of the people who have responded to this thread are of the opinion that in a group situation, everyone should have the ability to do as they please, with whoever they please, as long as both people that are doing the "doing" are consensual with no sense of reciprocation on the part of the one spouse, or that doing so, might leave the other spouse feeling rejected or excluded.
Personally, I think it is just really rude and presumptuous to go up to some guys wife, and start flirting with her, and to attempt to drag her off to a room and play with her, while her husband is left out. Or worse, to either put my wife in a situation as a result of having done so, where the husband of the woman that I have "borrowed" felt that as a result of my having done so, should have the right to do the same with my wife, when maybe she isn't in to him, or worst of all, to put him in a position where he might get rejected by the wife of the man who is off doing his wife. To me that seems like adding insult to injury. As a result, that is something that I would never and could never do, no matter how attracted i was to the woman. There is no woman in the world that I "have to have" so badly that I would put my own wife in that position.
On the other hand, If I am going to play with another woman, and she is married, or has a partner, I would discuss with my wife beforehand to see if she is interested in the other man, and if she is OK with getting friendly, and then, you had better believe that if I am going to get friendly with another man's woman/wife, I do absolutely feel a sense of obligation / reciprocation to make sure that her partner / husband doesn't feel left out, but I would always make sure that my wife is comfortable with playing with the other guy first.
If she isn't, neither of us plays with either, period. How I wish that all other couples shared my sentiments... It seems like it would make things so much easier if there was just one accepted standard, either everyone plays with whoever they want without having to consider the spouse/ partner, or no one does, and all couples always played as a couple.
Thanks again for your input. This has been a fascinating thread for me.
I am still a little bit shocked that it seems that the majority of the people who have responded to this thread are of the opinion that in a group situation, everyone should have the ability to do as they please, with whoever they please, as long as both people that are doing the "doing" are consensual with no sense of reciprocation on the part of the one spouse, or that doing so, might leave the other spouse feeling rejected or excluded.
Personally, I think it is just really rude and presumptuous to go up to some guys wife, and start flirting with her, and to attempt to drag her off to a room and play with her, while her husband is left out. Or worse, to either put my wife in a situation as a result of having done so, where the husband of the woman that I have "borrowed" felt that as a result of my having done so, should have the right to do the same with my wife, when maybe she isn't in to him, or worst of all, to put him in a position where he might get rejected by the wife of the man who is off doing his wife. To me that seems like adding insult to injury. As a result, that is something that I would never and could never do, no matter how attracted i was to the woman. There is no woman in the world that I "have to have" so badly that I would put my own wife in that position.
On the other hand, If I am going to play with another woman, and she is married, or has a partner, I would discuss with my wife beforehand to see if she is interested in the other man, and if she is OK with getting friendly, and then, you had better believe that if I am going to get friendly with another man's woman/wife, I do absolutely feel a sense of obligation / reciprocation to make sure that her partner / husband doesn't feel left out, but I would always make sure that my wife is comfortable with playing with the other guy first.
If she isn't, neither of us plays with either, period. How I wish that all other couples shared my sentiments... It seems like it would make things so much easier if there was just one accepted standard, either everyone plays with whoever they want without having to consider the spouse/ partner, or no one does, and all couples always played as a couple.
Thanks again for your input. This has been a fascinating thread for me.
Seems the answer to all this is simple. If you go as a couple and enjoy the lifestyle as a couple then play as a couple.
Criusers......... This is exactly why we don't really like the group things. Nobody knows what the boundaries are or if there are boundaries. There are lots of different scenarios as far as groups go. Sometimes it's anything goes. Sometimes it's anything goes with some couples but not others. Sometimes there are couples there who are not even swingers, and in most cases, you have to figure that out yourself..... ( that happened at our last party and she was the hottest woman there.) I don't know how long you have been doing this, but the lifestyle is a trip, huh? Never imagined it would be this difficult. But it's still loads of fun, both socially and sexually.
CRUISERS:
I certainly apologize it seems I got yours and another posting mixed up. I apologize for that misunderstanding. Having said that, however, I do still stick with my opinion that the other husband whom was with your wife should've made sure that you were ok with just watching when his wife wasn't wanting to b involved with anything that was going on. Even if that was just a thumbs up or some simple gesture just to make sure....it is just the respectable thing to do. Keeping eye contact with your spouse here and there is a simple way to say..."I am ok" or "eeek, you know what, I am NOT ok with any of this, please stop!" Eye's can speak volumes by just giving a simple look. It gives us both peace of mind and makes me feel secure. It has worked for us, but everyone is different.
I do understand your frustration in feelings that if couples are going to be involved in a group situation they should probably be ok with more then one partner, or being ok with all that are involved. However, that obviously wasn't the case. The other wife wasn't interested for whatever reason....and maybe she should have been ok with it, but she wasn't so what are you going to do? You seem like a nice decent guy....you wouldn't want her to do things with you out of feeling obligated, would you? I don't think you would enjoy that encounter at all. I understand how that would make you feel rejected, and a bit awkward. All you can do is make the best of the situation and learn from it.
Group situations can be fun with the right people and it can be a good experience when all are comfortable and respectful of everyone's feelings. I agree with someone's answer to your forum.....maybe you should've joined your wife and the other male......hehe, gone over and started kissing on her, and caressing her. Maybe she would've had an even more enjoyable experience to have you involved.
Good Luck to you...and may you have better group experiences in the future! Just make sure you are familiar with all involved, that might make it a better experience.
I certainly apologize it seems I got yours and another posting mixed up. I apologize for that misunderstanding. Having said that, however, I do still stick with my opinion that the other husband whom was with your wife should've made sure that you were ok with just watching when his wife wasn't wanting to b involved with anything that was going on. Even if that was just a thumbs up or some simple gesture just to make sure....it is just the respectable thing to do. Keeping eye contact with your spouse here and there is a simple way to say..."I am ok" or "eeek, you know what, I am NOT ok with any of this, please stop!" Eye's can speak volumes by just giving a simple look. It gives us both peace of mind and makes me feel secure. It has worked for us, but everyone is different.
I do understand your frustration in feelings that if couples are going to be involved in a group situation they should probably be ok with more then one partner, or being ok with all that are involved. However, that obviously wasn't the case. The other wife wasn't interested for whatever reason....and maybe she should have been ok with it, but she wasn't so what are you going to do? You seem like a nice decent guy....you wouldn't want her to do things with you out of feeling obligated, would you? I don't think you would enjoy that encounter at all. I understand how that would make you feel rejected, and a bit awkward. All you can do is make the best of the situation and learn from it.
Group situations can be fun with the right people and it can be a good experience when all are comfortable and respectful of everyone's feelings. I agree with someone's answer to your forum.....maybe you should've joined your wife and the other male......hehe, gone over and started kissing on her, and caressing her. Maybe she would've had an even more enjoyable experience to have you involved.
Good Luck to you...and may you have better group experiences in the future! Just make sure you are familiar with all involved, that might make it a better experience.
Thanks again, Wow! This has ended up being a GREAT thread!
Wetfem, I agree, group situations can be fun, and they can be wierd. I guess that is part of the intrigue and fun of the lifestyle, you never know what's going to happen next! Surely never a dull moment.
One other thing that we really don't like at group functions is when everyone has had a few drinks, and when people there figure, "what the hell" it's a lifestyle party, Wer'e all adults, and we are all here to have a good time right?" and so people sometimes take some liberties that maybe they shouldn't. A lot of people are kissing each other, and all of a sudden some guy that my wife really isn't in to comes over to her and wants to start making out with her, feelin her up, or trying to drag her off to a bedroom.
My lady is a beautiful, classy, lady, and we really don't like it when others treat her like she is "fair game" just because she is at a lifestyle party. True, she has the ability to say no, but it is awkward to do so.
Wetfem, I agree, group situations can be fun, and they can be wierd. I guess that is part of the intrigue and fun of the lifestyle, you never know what's going to happen next! Surely never a dull moment.
One other thing that we really don't like at group functions is when everyone has had a few drinks, and when people there figure, "what the hell" it's a lifestyle party, Wer'e all adults, and we are all here to have a good time right?" and so people sometimes take some liberties that maybe they shouldn't. A lot of people are kissing each other, and all of a sudden some guy that my wife really isn't in to comes over to her and wants to start making out with her, feelin her up, or trying to drag her off to a bedroom.
My lady is a beautiful, classy, lady, and we really don't like it when others treat her like she is "fair game" just because she is at a lifestyle party. True, she has the ability to say no, but it is awkward to do so.
SO, Cruisers....... take a vacation, cum down here, and we will show you how it's done. I don't kiss anyone whose eyes don't tell me to. Of course sometimes, I make a mistake. LOL
Cruisers,
I've been in the lifestyle as different couples and this has happened to me once. Turns out the other lady had a problem with me as a person...from a previous play experience. What that problem was? To this day I just don't know. When my partner at the time found out, she was less than happy about the situation. But I did not make a big deal of it at the time and laugh about it now.
My partner and I now simply play together, period. We'll end the play if we're separated for any reason or we're playing with another couple that does not want to participate. This is supposed to be for fun and that is not fun.
So, if one of you is feeling hurt, communicate and make a plan. It's that simple-regardless of the decision and course of action. Don't suffer in silence or you create a larger problem down the road.
Okay...done!
Have fun!
<img src="../photos/k/%7B180850636145c1270b96138%7DKINBAKU_THEATRE.jpg">
I've been in the lifestyle as different couples and this has happened to me once. Turns out the other lady had a problem with me as a person...from a previous play experience. What that problem was? To this day I just don't know. When my partner at the time found out, she was less than happy about the situation. But I did not make a big deal of it at the time and laugh about it now.
My partner and I now simply play together, period. We'll end the play if we're separated for any reason or we're playing with another couple that does not want to participate. This is supposed to be for fun and that is not fun.
So, if one of you is feeling hurt, communicate and make a plan. It's that simple-regardless of the decision and course of action. Don't suffer in silence or you create a larger problem down the road.
Okay...done!
Have fun!
<img src="../photos/k/%7B180850636145c1270b96138%7DKINBAKU_THEATRE.jpg">
Why not play with your wife and the woman's husband? If the other woman was only interested in soft swapping, there are always other options to include yourself with your wife and not feel left out. It would be an uncomfortable situation feeling this rejection, but ultimately it is better to respect eachother than obligate another to act unwillfully. Also, It may not have had anything to do with you personally, but her own limitations about herself and not knowing you well enough.