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another cool one:

I just want to get your opinions. I myself, am totally openminded about things like this. I think that anything is possible. I think there are a lot of hoax bullshitters out there, but also think the universe is entirely too large to contain only one planet filled with life. Anyway, what are your thoughts? Please use this thread to post pics and video links to strange shit.

-Don-</p></div>

In this dudes opinion...

How big headed do we have to be to believe it is impossible for another planet to support life?

I am not saying it IS out there...but it COULD be...I am not the only one...NASA (real scientists) sent a satellite out with a blurb in most languages on earth, pictograms, and an explanation as to what we are and what were doing...They did not aim it at anything in particular, just let it loose in space...The reason? To see if they could get another intelligent life form to communicate...

I am not the only one apparently...

Is hard for myself to believe that we are the top of the food chain. The most intelligent life form in the universe. oh please say it isn't so

The strangest thing I (Jim typing) have seen in the sky is people flying without planes...but I was one of them, and had a parachute...

Maybe I am not as redneck as I thought....

No offense TR, as you know...I like you...BUT it tends to be trailer parks those sightings happen in...

Do I believe in them? Not sure...Do I think they are possible? Not only YES, but FUCK YES!!!!

BUT I do not believe the papers who say POTUS gets to meet with aliens and see them when they get sworn in...I also do not believe Area 51 is anything more sinister than a secret military station where there is a lot ofR & D going on...

To give you an idea...I used the Barrett .50 Cal. when I was in the US Army in 1989, however, recently on the show "Future Weapons" it was reffered to as "The newest and greatest sniper rifle ever! Introduced in 2004, the Barrett .50 Cal." Well, TR, if you had an sort of clearance, you knew about it also...

How much do we ACTUALLY need to know about our governemtn's ability to defend us? How would the citizenry at large react if there was an actual UFO crash at Area 51? I think they protect us from ourselves...

Let the shit storm begin!!!!!

Excellent replies, all.

On our little planet, which by the way is probably the most screwed-up in our galaxy... (making the analogy of Earth being a drunk teenager with a loaded gun)... We truly are a fledgling civilization in terms of the scope of the Universe. We truly just don't know enough, or haven't been around long enough to be able to comprehend other life forms.. let alone SUPERIOR life forms, or even the remote possibility of life other than our own in this vast universe. Speaking to Paradigm's post about religion, I completely agree with his point of view. One can stand outside the current belief structures of Christianity, being Muslim, Buddhism, what have you, and with a little rational thinking, realize that #1.. we are HUMAN.. and therefore connected to all that is in this universe, and that we are completely and 100% capable of using our brains and bodies to be good, honest, decent human beings without necessarily affiliating one's self with a diety.

When you think literally of the millions of civilizations that could be out there, some of which could be millions of years advanced from where we are.... it's pretty daunting. I honestly think that we're being watched by other-worldly being.. of both good and bad intent... and there's not a helluva lot we can do about it. Maybe they'll step in one day and help us save ourselves from our own self imposed nuclear end.

I've seen a few things in the skies that I didn't quite tell what they were.. and can't honestly say that it was a "flying saucer".. but I would really love to.. seriously. Since a kid, I've read many books on the subject and the whole concept fascinates me to no end!

And yes.. I do think the gov't is covering up what it knows....for a couple of reasons.. stated in previous posts.. because not only don't they want our enemies to know.. but I also believe in the concept of "reverse-engineering".. in which so called Alien technology is taken apart and studied, so that we can recreate it, and understand how it works.. provided we can even grasp the concept at the time. Some say that from the Roswell, and other crashes.. we were able to develop fiber optics.. microchips, and new, stronger alloys among other things..

I too believe that some day the truth will come out.. but till then.... you're right.. we're simply NOT ready for it.. and there's no way we could handle that kind of information without it being perceived as a "threat" to our measly civilization, and wanting to destroy them.

Rock on, and thanks for giving me a subject that I'm passionate about!

bob & becky

<b>JSTJIM72</b>,

I realize that there are hoaxers that seem to be comprised mostly of redneck trailer park dwellers. However, I saw what I saw. I make no claim that it was a UFO. Let me rephrase, I make no claim that it was a UFO to anyone but me. I couldn't identify it, so by default, it was a UFO (to me) LOL. Anyway, to the rest of you. I would be interested in hearing any stories or viewing cool media. I find this subject intriquing.

<b>-D-</b>

P.S. When you get the time. Watch the initial video I posted. It's pretty cool. Give yourself a few hours though. It's lengthy.

One night I walked the dogs, I have 2> and when I got to the top of my driveway near the carport I happened to look up into the sky. That night I had seen a metor shower, about 6 in the SW sky. I live on a hill in a development and my house is about 30 foot above the road and one of the highest around the area. So seeing the metors when I left the house was just looking straight out to the sky. Well, as I started off I was about to take the dogs in and in the sky was a truncated triangular object with an orange light near the narrow end and it was moving NNW from the SW. It seemed to hover over the house or it was moving quite slow and it is hard to judge the size of a solid black object against a dark background. If I had to take a guess It was less than 200o feet in the air and would have been about 300 ft long and maybe 200 ft wide at the back or widest end. I called it the back because of the movement to that hovering position. It had absolutely no sound and it was too big to be some optical delusion. I went in to get B out to see it. She was slow getting a coat and dressing ....When we got back out the object was gone. This sighting was not reported but in the sunday paper sevral people in the area had seen to object and reported it to authorities.. I believe there were at least 3 civilians who had seen it and one "credible" policeman who also saw it... Was it a UFO ???? I on't know. Could it have been some hush hush thing that the gvm't is playing with??? who knows but I saw something and so did others in this county and in several other counties both N and E of this location... THis from central NC.... I am a retired Mech/ Elect engineer and not prone to optical delusions....Do I believe in UFO... YES!!! but what their origin????? I haven't a clue.

<b>XPLORR94248</b>,

I will be the first to admit that many people see ordinary objects under extraordinary conditions which may give the object a "UFO" appearance or obscure it's identity, if you will. However, There are those sightings that have survived even the toughest scrutiny and cannot be touched by the top skeptics. So I say there is a really good chance of E.T.'s visiting good old Terra. Perhaps based or staging expeditions from the darkside of Luna???

I think if any "superior" species were to be observing the planet, I think it would be, for them, like taking a trip to the zoo to see the wild monkeys or perhaps a museum to see the cavemen. We like to think we're these "civilized" creatures, but when I think of turning an Haji insurgent's head into a canoe, I realize that we are savages. I know I am.

<b>-D-</b>

<b>VP</b>,

Because no one knows, it would be pointless to debate the "alien logistics or methods" of space travel and concealment. However, we can speculate. I think it would make more logistical sense to stage an expedition as closely as possible. The "hiding under our noses" theory makes less sense because the sightings by we humans negate the idea of this theoretical "invisibility" technology for me. Just a thought.

Think of it this way... We have advanced technology compared to other countries, yet just because we have genetically engineered microbes that will eat crude oil from rocks following an oil spill, does not mean we've fully mastered genetics. So, I will say this again.... Because we don't know for sure, to debate this would be pointless.

<b>-D-</b>

My opinon is look at how technology is so advanced today. Did we do this all alone without any help? I think we got alot of our current technology from recovered UFO's. I just can't believe how since the 1970's how technology has increased at such a fast/furious pace!!!

If you like that type of things then you will believe there in something out there
( to much smoking pot i think)

<b>GOODGENES</b>,

The stance in the scientific community, that you speak of suggests life only as we know it. Many believe that their are forms of life that are beyond our comprehension. To suggest that all life in the universe should mimick our own, is presumptuous and ridiculous.

Additionally we do not know for sure size or composition of the universe. Because of our limited knowlege plagued by huge holes of theory we can never make sucha bold claim as to either yes or no. If the "evidence", what little their is, suggests to you that there is no other life that that of earth, then so be it. I see it differently. I think evidence is present in all forms of science that we are not alone in the universe. I see more validity in the theories that support the notion of life throughout the universe. I would even say that it probably exists in more areas of the milky way.

If you look at what life is, it's a cycle. You are born live and die. Isn't that what many elements in solar systems do?? Do stars not live in a sense? Not all life should depend on oxygen.. take botulinum bacteria for example. What about the idea that all life is not based on a carbon atom. Can physics be different in other parts of the universe? Are there forces that we have not discovered because they are beyond our current reach? There are just too many factors missing to support the "DEVOID OF LIFE" stance. There are however an astronimical amount of reasons to support the "Life is all around us". Chew on this as well. If the universe were infinite, even a one in one Quadrillionth chance is meaningless. It would mean that if it happened once it would happen an infinite amount of times. Even math supports the odds my friend.

<b>-D-</b>

P.S. WAAA1101, it's called thinking about life outside the trailer park. People like you are the reason I hold on to the belief that life exists elsewhere. It keeps me from committing suicide.

<b>GOODGENES</b>,

It's interesting that you brought up viri. Many argue that viri do live but not in the same sense as the rest of life on earth. Some believe they are a seperate "form" of life. They are parasitic in the way that the turn cells into little virus making factories during Reverse Transcriptase. The need the host to make this happen. They have the same drive to replicate as all other life, so I think they <b><u>are</u></b> living things. Viri being "non-living or not" is still a debate in the scientific community as you well know and mentioned.

I would also like mention that there are forms of life that fit your mold that live under conditions thought to be detrimental and or inhospitable to life. Some of these locations we thought to be devoid of life. Extreme Hot, Extreme cold and extreme pressures etc. As I mentioned before not all life (as we know it) even requires oxygen for the metabolic process to occur.

Many of the points you mention are not the standard belief, but the subject of huge debates in the scientific community. The expanse of the universe being one of them. Educated speculation is all that any of us can do. To make bold claims at this point is ridiculous. I just think it's quite arrogant and presumptuous to say without a doubt, that we are the only life in the universe. There is more proof that is possible than than not. That's my position.

Here is other problems to ponder about infinity in relation to space. If you could take an object lets say a quark. Remember that quarks are still theoretical in exisitence. But lets assume that they are the smallest measured unit of matter. Now lets assume they are tangible enough to divide. now divid one half of that, now again and again. You will always have two halves. Now it stands to reason that if you have infinite "smallness", you should have the opposite.

Take the big bang theory and all the similar theories like the "pulsating universe" theory and look at it two ways. Did the "Big Bang" involve only the existing finite amount of matter that exists now as we see it and has been expanding every since in the great blackness of space? ORRRRRR.... Did the big bang create the matter and space itself.

I think there is an opposite for everything. This has been proven time and again. I think for all the lack of matter there is a presence of matter. I think the universe is both infinite and finite. I think the complexity and vastness of the universe is far beyond our capabilities to fathom it's depths. To top it off there is great number of scientist that believe a "multiverse" is possible. Anyway, I could type about this for hours.

<b>-D-</b>

P.S. Homeostasis does not apply to most of the cold-blooded creatures on this planet. Behavioral habits allow the regulation of heat and not the internal metabolic processes. A good example is a lizard basking in the sun.

<b>GOODGENES</b>,

Very interesting points. I find physics very intriguing. I have several ebooks you may find interesting. Check this out. Just a quick Google dig.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_biochemistry

It even mentions Silicon, among others as you suggested for the base element and mentions also alternative biofuels. Another thing to ponder is that elements are being discovered periodically (pun intended). Check this out.

http://ask.yahoo.com/20011029.html

The potential for discovering new forces and elements in the universe are infinite. Atleast to we humans, with our limited capacities.

<b>-D-</b>

According to the Book of Mormon, there's plenty of life on other planets....

UFO's?
Been there, done that, seen them in a movie once... ( His) family has a history of Multipul UFO encounters. (scoff if you want, You werent the one standing in the middle of the farms air strip with a shot gun in your hands at 3am...)
Crop circles? some are, & some arnt authentic in my opinion, Missing time episodes? absolutly... Cars being chased down the highway by bright lights? been there, done that too... Are UFO's, and the occupants there in real? Oh ya, their real.. No doubt in MY mind. (incert spooky"Vincent Price music " here....

<b>SHEKKI</b>,

One would have to believe in the book of Mormon for that to apply. So, if it applies to you, I say cool. However, I do not. I Think religion is a human made answer to explain the unexplained. History has proved that this is human's way of answering unknowns that surround us. For Example, The Flat Earth, Sun revolving around the earth and countless other things we find ridiculous today, that were consider profound to those who were unaware in the day. I feel religion is just a blanket guess at how the universe was created. So I guess it's fair to say I view religion as someone's theory and not fact.

<b>-D-</b>

The cool thing to remember is that life is not just intelligent, it can be as small as bacteria. If bacteria exists on other planets, so shall we be absolved to understand that our beliefs in religion are not adequate.

<b>To all those interested</b>,

A cool article in the New York time reads:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/20/opinion/20greenehed.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5088&en=ad234c2c329cded7&ex=1318996800&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

I thought perhaps a few of you might get a kick out of the article. I urge you to dig around and find more media regarding the universe. I find it facinating and I would love to see what you can find.

<b>-D-</b>

Being one of those that firmly believe that with all that open space up there it would be a terrible waste to be truely all alone.

I have seen in my life things that I can not explain, I am hoping that when contact is made that i am one of the first to make their greeting.

Or...........................we may already be here watching your kinky swingers parties and your highly erotic couple and are just waiting to make our move???????

<b>GOODGENES</b>,

Brilliant stuff man. Keep sending that kind of stuff. I'll email you a great resource.

<b>-D-</b>

Don, I find your comments nieve and adorable and applaud you for bringing them to this forum. Read Michael Talbot's Holographic Universe, Aryeh Kaplan's Sefer Yetzirah, Gain an understanding of Robert Fludd and Jacob Bohm, then take a "What the Bleep do We Know" and "Down the Rabbit Hole" trip into quantum mechanics... and call me in the morning.

You wrote:

Don, I find your comments nieve and adorable and applaud you for bringing them to this forum. Read Michael Talbot's Holographic Universe, Aryeh Kaplan's Sefer Yetzirah, Gain an understanding of Robert Fludd and Jacob Bohm, then take a "What the Bleep do We Know" and "Down the Rabbit Hole" trip into quantum mechanics... and call me in the morning.

---

Why don't you take the path your name suggests and elaborate on your view regarding this thread and lay off the personal attacks toward me. Naivety, as you put it, does not apply when we are talking about theory. We are all clueless my friend.

You are asking me to read someone else's theories am I right? Do not attack my character and question my intellect because <font color="#FF0000"><b>you</b></font> find another scientist or religious figure's theories more plausible. The very fact you wrote these unfounded and rash comments tell me that you have a close mind. You sir, are the niave one.

Instead of flaming me and posting links to others' work, describe your beliefs in your own words. We are talking beliefs (theories), not fact. So come to reality and do tell us. Try explaining yourself before you make bold comments about my intellect. Please don't turn this cool thread into a flame war. It seems everyone, even my friends, try to start shit with me here.

So instead of just saying, "Your comments are Niave and adorable" and posting a link to someone else's theory, try explaining why you disagree. After all, to debate this subject would be ridiculous because no one on the earth knows. It's just as ridiculous as debating any dogma on the planet.

Oh and it's funny you think my views are credulous, when you are trying to get me to see your "spiritual" answer to quantum physics. How is your source's theories anymore credible than mine? I saw "What the Bleep..." It was hosted by the def actress, Marley Matlin. It's no more valid than any other theory presented by any other scientist. Why? Because no one knows for sure.

You are attacking my views as though yours are solid. I never claimed to know for sure or have the answers to the universe (like you seem to think you have). You are the one slamming those links down like they're definitive proof. I would say that makes you the one who suffers from credulity. Come talk to me when you can communicate to me without the condescension. In other words, poke someone else's chest. I am not in the mood.

I don't take it kindly when someone calls me niave because I am not religious. If you wanna tie religion/spirituality into quantum physics/mechanics, to make it more valid for you, by all means do so. Just don't take me "down the rabbit hole" with you. I prefer to keep a broader outlook, because I, like the rest of the human race, do not possess the true answers.
<b>-D-</b>

P.S. And people think I am the one who starts shit.

We have sat here and read the post and watched the video and read the articles and still we can not find a single thread or statement that can not be revocated by someone. The part of theory that makes it "THEORY" is that it is unproven.

Does anyone see this for what it is?

Does anyone think that for one second that CNN Headline news would not be blasting it across every new network that they provide that there was one solid piece of evidence of life outside of our own.

We all have our faiths and believes, some in religion and some in flying saucers. The biggest bitch that i have with any of them is when someone, real or imaginary wants to force there views on any of us. Why do I have to be wrong in my belief because it does not match your?

Try this, anyone, Prove to me one thing. Prove to me that there is a god or significance of life outside of the earths residence. Until then quit your bitchin or calling of names because it really does not belong here.

<b>NURSESMILEY</b>,

BRAVO! HERE HERE! and all that shit. LOL. Well said, now let us get back to theorizin'. LOL

<b>GOODGENES,</b>
Dude, again I must say that I really enjoyed that PBS and WIRED link man. I've been glued to my laptop for two hours so far. LOL.

<b>-D-</b>

I am just waitin to find out when the pick up is cause I am ready to travel.

In Jim's humble opinion...This whole issue is not far off of the evolution or abortion issue...There are some things best left not discussed...No one can give a solid reason for belief or a lack thereof, just re-gurgitate what someone, usually someone they cannot recall, told them about the issue...

I was in a biology class in the Florida University system, I will not say what school, and the professor actually allowed students to NOT listen to the portion of the class conserning evolution, and allowed them to NOT take a test on that portion of the class...I was/am under the impression that when you go to college, you are there to gain education and enlightenment, how can you when you are allowed to skip that portion of the class? One of the students said, "There is a website that has a guy who is offering $1 million dollars to anyone who can prove evolution...It has been up and running since the 80's, and no one has proven it!" My response was, "You prove that it is not true, and I will personally give you $1 million" He wanted to quote the bible....Needless to say, I did not have to take out another mortgage...HA HA HA...Oh, and the guy who is offering the money is the decision maker about proof, and he is a preacher of some sort, many christians believe that creationism and evolution are polar opposites, however, those who are educated do not subscribe to this.

Anyway, my point is, and I do indeed have one, there are certain things that people will simply not accept due to some religious background (my mother thinks snakes are evil because of Adam and Eve) and the vast majority of the time, they do not even know it is religious based, it is leftover Victorian principles.

I did a study on people who were afraid of snakes, I asked an equal number of people of the racial and sex (m/f, not sexuality) makeup in the USA why they were afraid of them, my theory was that 70% would believe a lie, I found that 98% of the people who were afraid, were afraid because they believed a lie:
1.) Slimy
2.) Evil
3.) no legs...YES THEY DO HAVE LEGS!!! They just don't walk on them
4.) Poisonous ( none are, there are roughly 10% venomous, of which 10% are deadly, therefore about 50 breeds worldwide)
5.) No reason, they are just "icky" (which, believe it or not, no one chose)
To make it even more funny for the people who were forced to read my 30 page paper, I asked each to rate their level of education in relation to reptile knowledge:
1.) high
2.) medium
3.) low
4.) vitually ignorant
100% rated themselves as medium to high, yet they were afraid due to a lie...So if this happens with snakes, something we all have seen, what else would you expect from people?

<b>JUSTJIM72</b>,

Brilliant find brother. I think if we prove exactly what energy is we'll have a good chance of understanding things better.

<b>-D-</b>

P.S. You like my pic? I love being a cocky fuck! I thought it would fit the topic HAHAHA!

DAMN TR...You have FAR to much time on your hands...And I thought I was a man of Leisure...LOL

Nice pic though...

<b>JUSTJIM72</b>,

Time afforded to me by destruction on 18 wheels. I still can't think straight. That and my neck is permanently fucked. Surgery is looming. Anything to get the numbness and weakness to subside. In the meantime, I will haunt the forum.

<b>-D-</b>

I've no doubt that there is other intelligent life in the universe... some more advanced than us, some less advanced.......

Whether or not some UFO sightings were true extraterrestrial sightings, I don't presume to know....

What I am sure of, is that it is NOT IMPOSSIBLE... and if it is not impossible, then, no matter how unlikely it is, it is still POSSIBLE.......

<b>GOODGENES</b>,

Watched it already LOL. I pored over the site like a kid in a candy store. Thanks again.

<b>-D-</b>

DON...Heal up brutha...Sorry about the 18 wheels o destruction...

Do I think there are other forms of intelligence "out there?" YES. Do I think that they have the means to mechanically traverse the vast distance between us? Probably not. Are there those who can be in our presence merely by the power of thought????? HHmmmmmmmm?? Now that's a thought!

This one is pretty damned neat.

And finally the motherfuckin' bad boy...

-Don-</p></div>

<b>GOODGENES</b>,

The last video suggests that we don't know what is beyond the sight of the hubble space telescope. The known Universe is 78 Billion Lightyears across (theoretically). It's looking infinite to me. We can never know this for sure because we are limited in means.

<b>-D-</b>

<b>GOODGENES</b>,

Makes good sense. This only applies if the big bang or pulsating universe is correct. Even if it is that does not mean the Space and Matter are interlocked. Meaning Space is infinite and the matter within was the only factor involved in the "Big Bang". Who's to say that beyond our sight in space another Big Bang took place with it's own group of matter. and these things are happening at an infinite amount spherical and wavering like strings in an even larger universe? After all we have no proof that space did not already exist prior to the matter exploding outward following the Big Bang. While mainstream science supports space being created with the bang. I still favor the infinite largeness and smallness notion.

If Space was created with the Big Bang, what's beyond the membrane??? Nothing??? What is space without matter empty space (nothing). This is where the dark matter people come in saying that everything that isn't visible matter is dark matter. Everything beyond that is true othingness and devoid of all laws or anything. I prefer to think of space as endless.

<b>-D-</b>

<b>GOODGENES</b>,

The bubble theory, like others strengthen what I lean toward. is that the universe goes on forever. I look at the universe (the unifying all encompassing word for everything in existence), as infinite. If there are membranes to other "pocket universes", to me this would just be an addition to the existing universe. Since the universe descibes <b>all</b> things that exist, whether tangible or not. That means the word multiverse is a redunancy. Meaning that the they would just be parts of the larger infinity I consider the universe. Whether you create new bubbles of it it's just adding to the "whole", if there is such a thing. It took 11 days for hubble to get that latest shot of the millions of gallaxy. This was pushing the telescopes maximum capability. Who is to say that if we were to look twice the distance we wouldn't see even that much more? We are limited by our instruments/tools.

<b>-D-</b>

One HUGE (perhaps infinite) consciousness. Could the universe be it's imagination experiencing life????

Only the truly stupid could believe that we are the only planet that has life. If only one in a million created life there would still be billions of planets with life on them. To believe that some of them have not already mastered space travel would be stupid. We are the top of the food chain on earth, but no where near it in the entire vastness of space.

Swingers Forum - UFO's