First of all, we love going to the New Yorker and not wanting to create drama or issues. We do want to try to make the place better for the community and help resolve some issues we have seen getting more and more frequent. We have heard several women coming out of the bathroom being assaulted some way or another (usually by a single man waiting in the halls). This past weekend a couple came with us. She had been drinking and came out of the bathroom and a single male grabbed her and kissed her without consent. Her partner approached and addressed the issue with him. Our question is how can we as a community help stop this behavior? Mr never lets Mrs go to the bathroom alone anymore due to several instances of this happening. We want people to have great experiences and no need for this to happen. We would love to open this forum to positive awareness of this issue as well as open discussion on solutions. Don’t want to turn to single male bashing at all (and we are sure it isn’t limited to single males). Any ideas as a community to resolve this? We definitely feel there needs to be a “Do not allow entry” type of list for those that are reported. There also needs to be a way to report these without trying to create drama. Other ideas or suggestions?
I know someone this happened to. Is it the same guy or group of guys doing it?
DISGUSTING! I would hope that this was brought to the IMMEDIATE attention of whoever is running these parties. I don't know what their policies are but every other club or promotor that we've ever met in the lifestyle has a 'one strike and you're out' policy when it comes to consent, for ANY physical contact...even kissing. I would also recommend this particular life hack for anyone who experiences unwanted sexual contact at the New Yorker in the future.
EVILDOERS wrote:
DISGUSTING! I would hope that this was brought to the IMMEDIATE attention of whoever is running these parties. I don't know what their policies are but every other club or promotor that we've ever met in the lifestyle has a 'one strike and you're out' policy when it comes to consent, for ANY physical contact...even kissing. I would also recommend this particular life hack for anyone who experiences unwanted sexual contact at the New Yorker in the future.
This makes me happy
On a more serious note, laying hands on someone’s wife or girlfriend without consent is a fast way to wind up in the ER. And with a fuckton of witnesses testifying to self defense.
EVILDOERS wrote:
DISGUSTING! I would hope that this was brought to the IMMEDIATE attention of whoever is running these parties. I don't know what their policies are but every other club or promotor that we've ever met in the lifestyle has a 'one strike and you're out' policy when it comes to consent, for ANY physical contact...even kissing. I would also recommend this particular life hack for anyone who experiences unwanted sexual contact at the New Yorker in the future.
This makes me happy
On a more serious note, laying hands on someone’s wife or girlfriend without consent is a fast way to wind up in the ER. And with a fuckton of witnesses testifying to self defense.
undrcvrcple8906 wrote:
We have attended both whispers and the red rooster in Vegas and we’ve never had any issues or heard of anything happening that wasn’t addressed immediately.
I wonder if someone could call them, and maybe some other clubs, and ask them what they do to control those kind of problems. I definitely saw that there were at least a handful of “employees” walking around making sure there weren’t any issues, and if there was, they handled it quick style
Both of those places have strict policies and staff to enforce them. Sadly this seems to be something New Yorker is missing. I don’t exactly foresee it being fixed. However I will say if this had happened to my wife, she and/or I would likely have resorted to violence to solve the issue. Sexual assault can in no way be tolerated and if New Yorker continues to allow this behavior, they’re likely to see an increased police presence and shut down. For the sake of the club, which we both enjoyed, I hope they rectify it quickly.
EVILDOERS wrote:
DISGUSTING! I would hope that this was brought to the IMMEDIATE attention of whoever is running these parties. I don't know what their policies are but every other club or promotor that we've ever met in the lifestyle has a 'one strike and you're out' policy when it comes to consent, for ANY physical contact...even kissing. I would also recommend this particular life hack for anyone who experiences unwanted sexual contact at the New Yorker in the future.
Sadly they don’t have any publicly posted policies. It’s an issue that’s come up time and time again when people ask about going, as no one is sure of the protocols and what to expect.
we were thinking about trying the new yorker, thanks for the heads up
I'll prefece this by saying i enjoy the space and appreciate its existence. But, the bottom line here is the owner isn't willing to take the necessary screening and staffing steps to protect people. This club is getting posted everywhere. Of course perps show up with perceptions of what goes on there and and what they can get away with. Without owner support, a sponsored membership list, a no entry list, some level of discretion with the deets posted in public forums, extra security on premises, etc. etc nothing will change. It will continue to be a place where anyone can walk in and violate someone.
The owners position the last couple of times these same concerns were brought up was it would be too costly and time prohibitive to do what was suggested. Its also a dance club and he isn't going to police people taking photos or vids. Assaults were happening then too. Vids and pics of people from the club getting taken by whoever walked in. He blocked those who said they wouldn't attend until changes were made from the group, threw out a 'why' he can't do it, and nothing changed. The message I received was use this space at your own risk.
While this risk exists anytime you access a club or venue, I expect a space where vulnerable sexual expression is encouraged and the clubs stated purpose, to do better.
I'm open to arguments that rallying the customer base to protect themselves is the solution. I just struggle to see it myself. Perhaps fatalistically, this convo feels like a bandaid for a problem that is only going to grow more dangerous without owner buy in and change.
The owners position the last couple of times these same concerns were brought up was it would be too costly and time prohibitive to do what was suggested. Its also a dance club and he isn't going to police people taking photos or vids. Assaults were happening then too. Vids and pics of people from the club getting taken by whoever walked in. He blocked those who said they wouldn't attend until changes were made from the group, threw out a 'why' he can't do it, and nothing changed. The message I received was use this space at your own risk.
While this risk exists anytime you access a club or venue, I expect a space where vulnerable sexual expression is encouraged and the clubs stated purpose, to do better.
I'm open to arguments that rallying the customer base to protect themselves is the solution. I just struggle to see it myself. Perhaps fatalistically, this convo feels like a bandaid for a problem that is only going to grow more dangerous without owner buy in and change.
unfortunately this is a story i have heard not only at the NYER but in many lifestyle events either house party's or public events. I am not a person of strong physical action but sometimes there is no other way when ur dealing with a person that has no values or regards to someone feelings or there personal rights. I am sure if we took anyone that had this behavior and brought him outside and gave him a strong very strong warning it will stop this behavior.
It's up to us men to protect our women form assholes like this. I pity any guy that does anything to haley without her consent,,,number one rule NO MEANS NO
It's up to us men to protect our women form assholes like this. I pity any guy that does anything to haley without her consent,,,number one rule NO MEANS NO
one other note i think the NYER as a whole is a great place we always have a nice time when we are there
UtSkier wrote:Agreed and we feel that notice needs to be sent and action taken to change this. No one should have to deal with predators!
one other note i think the NYER as a whole is a great place we always have a nice time when we are there
It's assault. There doesn't need to be a policy posted somewhere because it's already against the law. Call the police. After the cops show up a few times, the owner will be motivated to figure something out.
MANDIEQT wrote:
exactly
Exactly!
FIT_N_FUN wrote:
It's assault. There doesn't need to be a policy posted somewhere because it's already against the law. Call the police. After the cops show up a few times, the owner will be motivated to figure something out.
He doesn’t care.
FIT_N_FUN wrote:Agreed but don’t want the New Yorker to be closed or create issues. With that said, here are some suggestions we thought about:
It's assault. There doesn't need to be a policy posted somewhere because it's already against the law. Call the police. After the cops show up a few times, the owner will be motivated to figure something out.
Women:
* When going to the bathroom go with someone.
* Watch out for others.
Men
* Accompany your partner to the bathroom.
* While waiting for your partner be aware of violators.
* If you aren’t waiting for your partner don’t loiter in that hall!
* Stop grabbing or touching women without consent!!!
Just trying to bring awareness to others.
The club should be banning the individual for doing a hat they did. No one should feel unsafe like that at their club.
RECON wrote:FIT_N_FUN wrote:
It's assault. There doesn't need to be a policy posted somewhere because it's already against the law. Call the police. After the cops show up a few times, the owner will be motivated to figure something out.
He doesn’t care.
I wonder if he'd care if attendees took it upon themselves to maybe have 3 or 4 big guys with baseball bats walking menacingly around the club watching out for any kind of bad behavior? Also, I'll bet he'd DEFINITELY care if the cops were called because they would likely figure out a way to shut it down once they saw what was going on there. This IS still Utah after all, and we've seen many clubs shut down for just about any reason you can think of and in places FAR less religiously conservative than here.
Utahldscouple wrote:
We have heard several women coming out of the bathroom being assaulted some way or another (usually by a single man waiting in the halls). This past weekend a couple came with us. She had been drinking and came out of the bathroom and a single male grabbed her and kissed her without consent.
Wow… we have also heard similar accounts about Unspoken, but more about The New Yorker. Be safe out there sexy people.
Reading through this thread, and seeing other drama mentioned here in the past, I am curious: Has anyone been involved in or witnessed an actual physical altercation at any of these clubs or parties, private or public?
Exactly why clubs or resorts that allow single men are a hard no for us.
Canvas wrote:To be clear sexual assault isn’t drama, it’s a problem that needs continual addressing. And yes we have seen/experiences it and have responded to it when it happens.
Reading through this thread, and seeing other drama mentioned here in the past, I am curious: Has anyone been involved in or witnessed an actual physical altercation at any of these clubs or parties, private or public?
We know the guy you are talking about. The past 2 weekends he was very forceful to my wife and others in our group but nothing that would be considered assault. We shut him down when his actions crossed our comfort level. We have informed Ross about the sexual assault. I imagine this guy will not be allowed back. If you see him or any other guys crossing the line, please inform Ross or Mike or any other employee there and they will do something about it. We must stick together and keep our LS community safe.
Otown801 wrote:I do the same. We have discussed with other women and the consensus seems to be the following: back against the wall (not shoulder or side), at the end of the hall not in front of the bathroom, not staring, and keeping comments to yourself. We know there are good intentions out there but commenting about looks without knowing them seems a bit creeping. We always say come up to both of us in the main part of the club. We will always try to be friendly when approached.
I hate to hear this. This is the reason that I will always walk my wife to the restroom and wait in the hallway for her if she is not going to the restroom with our friends. I know I may look like a creepy dude just waiting in the hallway, but I generally keep my hand folded behind my back up against the wall. I give a smile and then put my head down, I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable with me standing there, but I also don't want someone like this little dickhead to assault my wife. I guess this brings up the question, how can I as a man, look less intimidating while waiting in the hallway for my wife or other female friends I may be accompanying to the restroom? I would like the ladies to be able to walk past me and not be like "oh shit, is this guy a creeper"
Never been to the club, but I assume the majority of guys are a part of a couple? So aren’t the single creeps are significantly outnumbered? Seems to me it’s a pretty easy process to deal with short little creeps that aren’t invited into a conversation and get “aggressive”. Dan would have made it crystal clear within a minute that it’s in the best interest of his well being to move the fuck along and never even look at us again lol.
Clubs come and they go, but sadly we believe this one is due to go. It's just a matter of whether it goes quietly with legislators and law enforcement leaning on the operator or with a raid that makes the news. Just like this site and the TNY private FB group, there are increasing fakes, flakes, and bad actors that want in. There's a difference between social media and in person offenses though. Our attendance has decreased significantly with observations of drug sales in both bathrooms, sex acts, and plenty of phones out taking photos and video wherever. People seem to forget which state this is.
Agree there shouldn't have to be a posted policy regarding something unlawful, but inviting the police in will probably hasten its demise. Paying customers shouldn't have to fix problems in a public venue either, but many of them are doing the aforementioned that attracts unsavory types, encourages bad behavior, and contribute to the issues.
Thankfully our circle extends well beyond any one venue. Plenty of people who get it organize safe vetted private sexy parties and events for genuine people who misbehave correctly. Most of them never go to TNY.
Agree there shouldn't have to be a posted policy regarding something unlawful, but inviting the police in will probably hasten its demise. Paying customers shouldn't have to fix problems in a public venue either, but many of them are doing the aforementioned that attracts unsavory types, encourages bad behavior, and contribute to the issues.
Thankfully our circle extends well beyond any one venue. Plenty of people who get it organize safe vetted private sexy parties and events for genuine people who misbehave correctly. Most of them never go to TNY.
Maybe there needs to be some kind of vetting process or maybe just some kind of education before being allowed access to the club. I know there are at least two groups here on Swingular that require something like this and one of them even requires a referral from someone already part of the group.
On the other hand, I know that this is a business and their main priority is likely to make as much money as possible so that mindset is going to be in opposition to anything that doesn't maximize profit. But if people don't feel safe going there it will very quickly become either a giant sausage fest or a ghost town.
On the other hand, I know that this is a business and their main priority is likely to make as much money as possible so that mindset is going to be in opposition to anything that doesn't maximize profit. But if people don't feel safe going there it will very quickly become either a giant sausage fest or a ghost town.
I have been following this with keen interest because Utah doesn't have any clubs like we do in Vegas. New Yorker is probably the best thing you've had and you want to keep it going. But if you get the police involved, you might see the club shut down shortly afterwards.
From what I have read here, the owner does not seem to care about added security. Perhaps you should consider forming you own security team of volunteers. Maybe four guys in the same fluorescent shirt that says "VOLUNTEER" (or something like that). Each person would have a specific area to sit on a bar stool to observe. Rotate a different team every week so that the same guys aren't doing it every week. The volunteers can talk to unruly clientele, but under no circumstances touch that person. If it gets too unruly, get others and tell him to leave. The added presence of a team of guys watching could deter some guys from doing stupid things. The Red Rooster here in Vegas uses a team of volunteers and that seems to "slow down" a lot stupid shit. I know some volunteers at the Red Rooster and they always say that they enjoy it because people just start chatting with them, which has resulted in some great friendships for them. After a while, everyone gets to know, trust and like the volunteers.
I don't have a solution to the cell phone issue. The clubs here in Vegas will kick a person out for using a phone (talk, text, camera, etc). All I can suggest is to not do something that you will regret if someone else wants record or take photos.
From what I have read here, the owner does not seem to care about added security. Perhaps you should consider forming you own security team of volunteers. Maybe four guys in the same fluorescent shirt that says "VOLUNTEER" (or something like that). Each person would have a specific area to sit on a bar stool to observe. Rotate a different team every week so that the same guys aren't doing it every week. The volunteers can talk to unruly clientele, but under no circumstances touch that person. If it gets too unruly, get others and tell him to leave. The added presence of a team of guys watching could deter some guys from doing stupid things. The Red Rooster here in Vegas uses a team of volunteers and that seems to "slow down" a lot stupid shit. I know some volunteers at the Red Rooster and they always say that they enjoy it because people just start chatting with them, which has resulted in some great friendships for them. After a while, everyone gets to know, trust and like the volunteers.
I don't have a solution to the cell phone issue. The clubs here in Vegas will kick a person out for using a phone (talk, text, camera, etc). All I can suggest is to not do something that you will regret if someone else wants record or take photos.
SexyPowSkiers wrote:
Our attendance has decreased significantly with observations of drug sales in both bathrooms, sex acts, and plenty of phones out taking photos and video wherever.
We’ve been invited to The New Yorker too many times to count, and just the fact that people have their cell phones out taking pics and video in what has basically become a public sex club, has cemented our decision to never attend… and that doesn’t even include the growing accounts of sexual assault and drug use as even bigger deterrents.
Discretion is important to us, but safety is paramount.
Starlights wrote:
Wow… we have also heard similar accounts about Unspoken, but more about The New Yorker. Be safe out there sexy people.
I think the main difference that causes NYer to have more stories of this is both what’s allowed to take place on premises and overall setup and design.
Unspoken is very clearly a bar. No play on site. The entire club is well lit and the bathrooms open into the open design of the club. At NYer, the bathrooms are down a hall that is dimly lit and also quite narrow. The bathrooms there are also right in between what is best described as the play area and the general area.
You’re going to have issues at any place. The main difference is in how each place handles it.
WhiskeyMakesUsFrisky wrote:
The bathrooms there are also right in between what is best described as the play area and the general area.
And herein lies part of the problem. Was there ever a play area at TNY or are we missing something? There is no on site play in UT. This isn't CA, FL, or NV. So when people are in the backrooms away from the noise and presumably getting to know each other better, somewhere between sliding into second base and leading off of it, it's time to think about a hotel or home. That's the policy that needs posting. Otherwise it attracts lookers with phone cameras who aren't necessarily in the LS but got into TNY relatively cheaply and easily compared to on site clubs. Some of those lookers assume it's a free for all with implied consent. It will also attract undercover investigators. A reported incident of sexual assault will bring the investigators sooner.
Given an inch...take a mile...how's that saying go? Anyway, it's a shame when nice things get ruined.
I have been going to clubs, single and with dates since I was 18. As a Male I was raised with an attitude to "watch out" for ALL women. My dates, girls on a night out or with their own date. Did not matter, they were my responsibility if they were in my proximity. I have caught 3 guys trying to roofey girls, dozens harassing or assaulting dates and strangers. Club Security can't see everything so I interject myself and ensure the Women is OK. Usually this is enough. However, drug assualt I have and will lay hands on the POS and get the police involved. Inappropriate physical contacts I will walk them to or get security involved. I have given dozens of police statements and have no problem doing so. If the owner at this point is not cooperative I will discuss it further with the DA after getting the police involved. To me and my wife, this is way more important than having a "LS club" convenient to where we live.
SexyPowSkiers wrote:
And herein lies part of the problem. Was there ever a play area at TNY or are we missing something?
I only speak from the experience of going once. That said there was absolutely play going on in the back rooms the entire time we were there. This was even openly discussed among those we were there with. I even saw an employee walk back once, see what was going on, and continue to allow it. Because of that, I always assumed this was well known, but I guess this falls back to the suggestion I’ve made about making policies well known.
As far as Utah is concerned, they’ve skirted all rules by not making this official. It’s also why the club is BYOB. Once they get a license, nudity can no longer be allowed.
In the few times we have been to the New Yorker we have felt very safe and were welcomed by all. It’s hard to hear about these assaults but can see how they would happen.
Maybe a membership or a better way to vet? I don’t see anything wrong with making it an exclusive club only open to couples.
We went to Whispers in LV in November where we had to sign up for a membership, sign paperwork and share our licenses.
There are too many people out there that want to ruin a good thing for no apparent reason besides their unhappiness. I’d hate to see the New Yorker get shut down.
Maybe a membership or a better way to vet? I don’t see anything wrong with making it an exclusive club only open to couples.
We went to Whispers in LV in November where we had to sign up for a membership, sign paperwork and share our licenses.
There are too many people out there that want to ruin a good thing for no apparent reason besides their unhappiness. I’d hate to see the New Yorker get shut down.
Vegascouple469 wrote:
I have been going to clubs, single and with dates since I was 18. As a Male I was raised with an attitude to "watch out" for ALL women. My dates, girls on a night out or with their own date. Did not matter, they were my responsibility if they were in my proximity. I have caught 3 guys trying to roofey girls, dozens harassing or assaulting dates and strangers. Club Security can't see everything so I interject myself and ensure the Women is OK. Usually this is enough. However, drug assualt I have and will lay hands on the POS and get the police involved. Inappropriate physical contacts I will walk them to or get security involved. I have given dozens of police statements and have no problem doing so. If the owner at this point is not cooperative I will discuss it further with the DA after getting the police involved. To me and my wife, this is way more important than having a "LS club" convenient to where we live.
Exactly. It's a little baffling that some people seem willing to accept some sexual assault as long as it allows the venue to remain open. It's even more baffling that everyone seems to be aware that women are being assaulted and that ANY man would consider taking his wife or partner into a place like that. Must be pretty desperate times along the Wasatch Front.
DELICIOUSLYWET wrote:Everyone is welcome, hence part of the problem 😀. But fun couples are always encouraged to drop by.
We would like to drop in, in the not so distant future if we would be welcome.
We're veterans of attending LS clubs in many states, helped run a club in California for over a year and have thrown dozens of house parties. All of the clubs at least had behavior rules posted on their website if not posted at the club and all had volunteers patrolling. For house parties we print rules that all attendees must read and agree to. Violations result in removal and blacklisting. If it was as serious as a sexual assault, which never happened, police would be called. There's no place for that shit. People do it because they get away with it. Face a judge and that may change your mind. We never attend clubs that have a reputation for allowing any such behavior.
It’s pretty easy.
Ban single males from the lifestyle.
It’s easy to find a guy who is DTF but women are not as frequent and due to the physical difference between men and women it’s obvious here isn’t it
I’ve never understood why single guys go to the lifestyle and assumed these are just guys who can’t get laid on their own merits or women want nothing to do with them as well this they are damaged goods.
Ban single males from the lifestyle.
It’s easy to find a guy who is DTF but women are not as frequent and due to the physical difference between men and women it’s obvious here isn’t it
I’ve never understood why single guys go to the lifestyle and assumed these are just guys who can’t get laid on their own merits or women want nothing to do with them as well this they are damaged goods.
SexynPC wrote:
It’s pretty easy.
Ban single males from the lifestyle.
It’s easy to find a guy who is DTF but women are not as frequent and due to the physical difference between men and women it’s obvious here isn’t it
I’ve never understood why single guys go to the lifestyle and assumed these are just guys who can’t get laid on their own merits or women want nothing to do with them as well this they are damaged goods.
We’ve met a lot of single males in the lifestyle that are great. By your logic, we might as well ban all singles from the lifestyle. We’ve seen our fair share of single females come on here to start drama. You just see one more than the other due to volume.
Also, no one is damaged goods just because of where they are in their life. You’d think we’d have unlearned that by now instead of continuing to believe crap like that.
EVILDOERS wrote:RECON wrote:
[quote=FIT_N_FUN]It's assault. There doesn't need to be a policy posted somewhere because it's already against the law. Call the police. After the cops show up a few times, the owner will be motivated to figure something out.
He doesn’t care.
I wonder if he'd care if attendees took it upon themselves to maybe have 3 or 4 big guys with baseball bats walking menacingly around the club watching out for any kind of bad behavior? Also, I'll bet he'd DEFINITELY care if the cops were called because they would likely figure out a way to shut it down once they saw what was going on there. This IS still Utah after all, and we've seen many clubs shut down for just about any reason you can think of and in places FAR less religiously conservative than here.
[/quote]
I concur!
SexynPC wrote:
It’s pretty easy.
Ban single males from the lifestyle.
It’s easy to find a guy who is DTF but women are not as frequent and due to the physical difference between men and women it’s obvious here isn’t it
I’ve never understood why single guys go to the lifestyle and assumed these are just guys who can’t get laid on their own merits or women want nothing to do with them as well this they are damaged goods.
amen
...and if some sm assaults my wife, I'll assault him, guaranteed.
but def best to stay away from places with sm's
Single males.... the scourge of the LS.
WhiskeyMakesUsFrisky wrote:EVILDOERS wrote:
DISGUSTING! I would hope that this was brought to the IMMEDIATE attention of whoever is running these parties. I don't know what their policies are but every other club or promotor that we've ever met in the lifestyle has a 'one strike and you're out' policy when it comes to consent, for ANY physical contact...even kissing. I would also recommend this particular life hack for anyone who experiences unwanted sexual contact at the New Yorker in the future.
Sadly they don’t have any publicly posted policies. It’s an issue that’s come up time and time again when people ask about going, as no one is sure of the protocols and what to expect.
I would give them my full punching action. I'm not nice especially to people by the bathroom. Off with his head.
When Tawney owned the LS club in LA, she required all SMs to be sponsored, and all singles had to go through a class about the rules and etiquette before they could attend a party at the club or a Fantasy CoOp mansion party. I mentioned this on the NYER and offered to do these classes for him. I got banned.
I would not be surprised if one of the people or couple that dealt with this made a stink and they used the SLFD to hammer them and shut them down. That is utter speculation.
I would not be surprised if one of the people or couple that dealt with this made a stink and they used the SLFD to hammer them and shut them down. That is utter speculation.
Honestly, I don't see how he manages to get this open again with the city now so involved and aware. They're going to continue to make this as difficult and expensive as possible for him. The gossip making rounds was he needs congregation permits now? Since costs were such an issue he couldn't increase safety measures or offer basic ones, how much more is he willing to pour in on top of the kitchen, etc? The city isn't going to let this be. If he does manage to get it open, I don't know how we trust it doesnt get raided again almost immediately and our names end up on some naughty list in a police report accessible to the media. Discretion hasn't been something this club has looked for. It feels like those consequences have frustratingly come home to roost.
A private secluded venue open to LS crowds ONLY is the answer here. No vanillas finding out about it and walking in off the street. Ross once had that with The Mansion. A simple pole barn on farm land would be ideal for privacy and keeping government officials out of your business imo. We would frequent something like that, but never something like The NYer.
Inviting a woman with cameras and a big mouth to tour the club, then allowing her to post it on social media was probably the start of his undoing. This is supposed to be a secretive LS…
Inviting a woman with cameras and a big mouth to tour the club, then allowing her to post it on social media was probably the start of his undoing. This is supposed to be a secretive LS…
It is more than a little disconcerting seeing so many people here bashing all single guys in the LS.
My wife and I were in the LS together for years. We often got messages from disrespectful guys and just blocked them. We met many very nice single guys. After my wife had an affair, I am now (temporarily) a single guy in the LS.
In my opinion there will always be assholes, but a small percentage of very aggressive and disrespectful guys like the ones that ignore consent are the exception, not the rule. They just happen to be more obvious and annoying than all the respectful guys.
In this case, I place the blame SQUARELY on the owners of any club that do not take consent seriously and have the offenders arrested/expelled immediately. Every LS event and club I have ever been to takes this shit seriously. If the owners of this club don't, it's on them.
My wife and I were in the LS together for years. We often got messages from disrespectful guys and just blocked them. We met many very nice single guys. After my wife had an affair, I am now (temporarily) a single guy in the LS.
In my opinion there will always be assholes, but a small percentage of very aggressive and disrespectful guys like the ones that ignore consent are the exception, not the rule. They just happen to be more obvious and annoying than all the respectful guys.
In this case, I place the blame SQUARELY on the owners of any club that do not take consent seriously and have the offenders arrested/expelled immediately. Every LS event and club I have ever been to takes this shit seriously. If the owners of this club don't, it's on them.
MANDIEQT wrote:
I'll prefece this by saying i enjoy the space and appreciate its existence. But, the bottom line here is the owner isn't willing to take the necessary screening and staffing steps to protect people. This club is getting posted everywhere. Of course perps show up with perceptions of what goes on there and and what they can get away with. Without owner support, a sponsored membership list, a no entry list, some level of discretion with the deets posted in public forums, extra security on premises, etc. etc nothing will change. It will continue to be a place where anyone can walk in and violate someone.
The owners position the last couple of times these same concerns were brought up was it would be too costly and time prohibitive to do what was suggested. Its also a dance club and he isn't going to police people taking photos or vids. Assaults were happening then too. Vids and pics of people from the club getting taken by whoever walked in. He blocked those who said they wouldn't attend until changes were made from the group, threw out a 'why' he can't do it, and nothing changed. The message I received was use this space at your own risk.
While this risk exists anytime you access a club or venue, I expect a space where vulnerable sexual expression is encouraged and the clubs stated purpose, to do better.
I'm open to arguments that rallying the customer base to protect themselves is the solution. I just struggle to see it myself. Perhaps fatalistically, this convo feels like a bandaid for a problem that is only going to grow more dangerous without owner buy in and change.
We, like many others, go to The New Yorker on occasion because it can be an enjoyable "discrete" atmosphere without having to have our name on a membership list. This is not a way of life our ours, and certainly do not want our names on record of attending events in effort to keep our regular personal life and our occasional night of spicing things up becoming one and known to all, potentially. We, and many others that we know, would simply no longer go to this establishment and find elsewhere to go that do not require disclosing our name as attendees or members. Some people may not care, but many of us do. Whoever, women are not sex objects and are not a free-for-all to do what anyone wants whenever they want and should be dealt with swiftly and firmly. If you attend with a man, the man/men could and should wait outside of the restroom for you. If you do not have men with you, multiple women going at the same time could be helpful. Asking men in attendance to keep an eye on your while going to the restroom could also be beneficial as most men would be happy to and are trustworthy in this situation, I would think and based on my experiences. Just a few quick thoughts of mine.
A LS friendly club that:
1) Allows unsponsored Single Males
2) Allows phones and camera's in with no rules for their use
3) Has no apparent consequences for misbehaving guests
4) Has no list of rules which apply to ALL guests (e.g. "No means No")
5) Allows anyone in who knows about it's location
6) Allows and actually encourages public posting of pictures of their 'private' events to Facebook
. . . in our opinion is not worth attending - E V E R! There are MANY parties that could accomplish the same goal . . . WITH rules that are strictly enforced. Vegas is close enough. There are so many ways to fix this - it appears management is either unwilling, derelict in the fundamentals of LS club management, or . . . actually complicit. No matter what the rationale - we won't be attending any time soon. Thank God for good LS friends to keep us busy!
We wish all of you the best that want to keep attending . . . good luck!
A final thought . . . and in fairness to the management of the club . . . a club patron should print out this entire thread and show it to them so that they can at least have the opportunity to respond. What a tragedy it would be to have people stop attending and the management have no idea what happened. Just saying.
1) Allows unsponsored Single Males
2) Allows phones and camera's in with no rules for their use
3) Has no apparent consequences for misbehaving guests
4) Has no list of rules which apply to ALL guests (e.g. "No means No")
5) Allows anyone in who knows about it's location
6) Allows and actually encourages public posting of pictures of their 'private' events to Facebook
. . . in our opinion is not worth attending - E V E R! There are MANY parties that could accomplish the same goal . . . WITH rules that are strictly enforced. Vegas is close enough. There are so many ways to fix this - it appears management is either unwilling, derelict in the fundamentals of LS club management, or . . . actually complicit. No matter what the rationale - we won't be attending any time soon. Thank God for good LS friends to keep us busy!
We wish all of you the best that want to keep attending . . . good luck!
A final thought . . . and in fairness to the management of the club . . . a club patron should print out this entire thread and show it to them so that they can at least have the opportunity to respond. What a tragedy it would be to have people stop attending and the management have no idea what happened. Just saying.
SweettAndH wrote:
Vegas is close enough.
Come visit!!
I thought they closed for good?
SweettAndH wrote:
A LS friendly club that:
1) Allows unsponsored Single Males
2) Allows phones and camera's in with no rules for their use
3) Has no apparent consequences for misbehaving guests
4) Has no list of rules which apply to ALL guests (e.g. "No means No")
5) Allows anyone in who knows about it's location
6) Allows and actually encourages public posting of pictures of their 'private' events to Facebook
. . . in our opinion is not worth attending - E V E R! There are MANY parties that could accomplish the same goal . . . WITH rules that are strictly enforced. Vegas is close enough. There are so many ways to fix this - it appears management is either unwilling, derelict in the fundamentals of LS club management, or . . . actually complicit. No matter what the rationale - we won't be attending any time soon. Thank God for good LS friends to keep us busy!
We wish all of you the best that want to keep attending . . . good luck!
A final thought . . . and in fairness to the management of the club . . . a club patron should print out this entire thread and show it to them so that they can at least have the opportunity to respond. What a tragedy it would be to have people stop attending and the management have no idea what happened. Just saying.
And this is EXACTLY why Tawney and I have been talking about opening another club here in Utah. She had a VERY exclusive clientele and the only way to get in was to be recommended and then actually screened. It was not a TOUGH screening process, just see if they are fun and ensure that they understand the LS and rules to ensure guest privacy and confidentiality. She KNEW she would deal with shit from the city and made sure she never gave them a reason to shut her down. That is how she was able to operate a 12,000sqft club in the heart of a conservative part of the county.
There are SO many tiny things Ross could do to improve the club all the way around. And owning a couple clubs he can afford it. You would think if the LS was important to him that he would do them for the community. I have no idea why he doesn't.
I've considered doing the same and have even visited with a pro-lifestyle arrorney. I would love to team up. It will take a village.
We need a new place with a few rules.
SuckySunshine wrote:
I've considered doing the same and have even visited with a pro-lifestyle arrorney. I would love to team up. It will take a village.
I'd be willing to lend a hand to help.
Let the villagers unite!