It may be a sensitive subject but worth talking about. Especially if you are new to the lifestyle.
What are the chances of your marriage or relationship surviving if you swing? We may be able to shed some light into this topic by actual experience. We took several years off after going through some very difficult family trauma. Not related to our relationship or swinging. Anyway, when we started this fun little venture we at one point knew a lot of couples and singles. We were very active in the lifestyle and attended a lot of parties and events. Of the many couples we knew, we realized that all but maybe two couples are divorced or spilt. And we knew many.
I guess the main question is what brings people to this lifestyle? If you are trying to replace something your not getting at home than this is a dangerous place. If you are unhappy or trying to bridge a void, this is a dangerous lifestyle. If you aren’t secure but think you are, don’t kid yourself, this can be a risky lifestyle. You absolutely cannot go into this lifestyle with issues on any level. It will cause jealousy, resentment, make people feel inferior, and sometimes inadequate. We’ve seen it. Many times. Those who say “no drama” sometimes are the ones that bring the most. There are a million scenarios that would be a red flag for reasons not to swing. BUT, if you are secure, love each other, understand that sex can be a physical act, enjoy seeing each other have fun with others and can share in those experiences, aren’t jealous at all, can play alone without worry, then you may be in the right lifestyle. I’m not saying that playing alone is required to be a swinger, but it’s the ultimate sign of security. You have to trust each other 100%.
If you’re not sure and you want to play with fire. Well, you know the rest. And we did see couples leave each other for partners they swung with. Yes you can develop feelings. Yes you can even fall in love. But only if you’re not truly in love with each other. Use this lifestyle to compliment your naughty side and explore. It’s healthy and so much fun if you approach it in the right mindset. If you don’t or can’t or are unsure, just know there can be undesirable consequences.
Find compatible couples and singles. Never rush a situation or take one for the team. If you like the female half but your wife doesn’t feel it with the male half, don’t force it. Don’t be selfish. Take your time and find real compatibility. It can be an absolute blast when you’re all into each other. Respect boundaries and don’t assume that because someone is at a swinger party you can grope someone or assume everyone is DTF just because you’re in the same room. Respect goes a long way. Anyway, I digress.
Swing with confidence, talk it out and be sure you’re ready for this. Seeing your love or partner moaning with a new partner shouldn’t be difficult or hard to watch. It should be a turn on. Make sure it is.
Cheers to all of you in this lifestyle. We’re a brave, adventurous, and diverse bunch. Enjoy!! 🍻
What are the chances of your marriage or relationship surviving if you swing? We may be able to shed some light into this topic by actual experience. We took several years off after going through some very difficult family trauma. Not related to our relationship or swinging. Anyway, when we started this fun little venture we at one point knew a lot of couples and singles. We were very active in the lifestyle and attended a lot of parties and events. Of the many couples we knew, we realized that all but maybe two couples are divorced or spilt. And we knew many.
I guess the main question is what brings people to this lifestyle? If you are trying to replace something your not getting at home than this is a dangerous place. If you are unhappy or trying to bridge a void, this is a dangerous lifestyle. If you aren’t secure but think you are, don’t kid yourself, this can be a risky lifestyle. You absolutely cannot go into this lifestyle with issues on any level. It will cause jealousy, resentment, make people feel inferior, and sometimes inadequate. We’ve seen it. Many times. Those who say “no drama” sometimes are the ones that bring the most. There are a million scenarios that would be a red flag for reasons not to swing. BUT, if you are secure, love each other, understand that sex can be a physical act, enjoy seeing each other have fun with others and can share in those experiences, aren’t jealous at all, can play alone without worry, then you may be in the right lifestyle. I’m not saying that playing alone is required to be a swinger, but it’s the ultimate sign of security. You have to trust each other 100%.
If you’re not sure and you want to play with fire. Well, you know the rest. And we did see couples leave each other for partners they swung with. Yes you can develop feelings. Yes you can even fall in love. But only if you’re not truly in love with each other. Use this lifestyle to compliment your naughty side and explore. It’s healthy and so much fun if you approach it in the right mindset. If you don’t or can’t or are unsure, just know there can be undesirable consequences.
Find compatible couples and singles. Never rush a situation or take one for the team. If you like the female half but your wife doesn’t feel it with the male half, don’t force it. Don’t be selfish. Take your time and find real compatibility. It can be an absolute blast when you’re all into each other. Respect boundaries and don’t assume that because someone is at a swinger party you can grope someone or assume everyone is DTF just because you’re in the same room. Respect goes a long way. Anyway, I digress.
Swing with confidence, talk it out and be sure you’re ready for this. Seeing your love or partner moaning with a new partner shouldn’t be difficult or hard to watch. It should be a turn on. Make sure it is.
Cheers to all of you in this lifestyle. We’re a brave, adventurous, and diverse bunch. Enjoy!! 🍻
We have three decades in the lifestyle starting when we were young newlyweds in college. Sadly, we've seen a LOT of relationships/marriages of friends and acquaintances in swinging bite the dust. We counted up one day and just off the top of our heads we were up to over 60 couples! And those are just the ones we know for SURE ended. Many others were having major difficulties and dropped off the grid so we can only suspect what may have happened.
We think one of the problems that people run into is the illusion that being physically intimate with someone other than your partner means more than it actually means and that the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. Swinging is GRADUATE LEVEL 'relationshiping' and if you don't have impeccable communication skills and emotional maturity you might not fare well in this little hobby.
How can a long-term relationship where you have to deal with all of life's problems...bills, family, often kids, etc., etc. compete with those giddy butterflies in the stomach feelings of a new, exciting relationship?
We think one of the problems that people run into is the illusion that being physically intimate with someone other than your partner means more than it actually means and that the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. Swinging is GRADUATE LEVEL 'relationshiping' and if you don't have impeccable communication skills and emotional maturity you might not fare well in this little hobby.
How can a long-term relationship where you have to deal with all of life's problems...bills, family, often kids, etc., etc. compete with those giddy butterflies in the stomach feelings of a new, exciting relationship?
EVILDOERS wrote:
We have three decades in the lifestyle starting when we were young newlyweds in college. Sadly, we've seen a LOT of relationships/marriages of friends and acquaintances in swinging bite the dust. We counted up one day and just off the top of our heads we were up to over 60 couples! And those are just the ones we know for SURE ended. Many others were having major difficulties and dropped off the grid so we can only suspect what may have happened.
We think one of the problems that people run into is the illusion that being physically intimate with someone other than your partner means more than it actually means and that the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. Swinging is GRADUATE LEVEL 'relationshiping' and if you don't have impeccable communication skills and emotional maturity you might not fare well in this little hobby.
How can a long-term relationship where you have to deal with all of life's problems...bills, family, often kids, etc., etc. compete with those giddy butterflies in the stomach feelings of a new, exciting relationship?
Exactly. We’ve seen you two around for quite awhile. I don’t think we’ve ever met so we would add you as one or the rare survivors of the lifestyle which says a lot about you two. Your analogy of “Graduate Level relationshipping” is spot on.
25 years in the L.S. and we've lost countless sets of couples friends who's relationship did not survive. Our thinking is, maybe the relationship wasn't strong to begin with? Most of the couples we know, that have split were in that "staying together for the kids" mode. When the kids grew up, moved on... so did the couple.
It's a little bit traumatic to lose friends in this manner ( especially long time play friends that are part of your lives ) ... each time, it surprises us/catches us off guard. In our experience, next you get ( sometimes from both halves of the previous couple ) "Hey, I have a new bf/gf - do you guys still wanna hang out?" - which is another strange situation to deal with.. ( as you were friends with both, previously ) Not sure how to approach this strange situation.
It's a little bit traumatic to lose friends in this manner ( especially long time play friends that are part of your lives ) ... each time, it surprises us/catches us off guard. In our experience, next you get ( sometimes from both halves of the previous couple ) "Hey, I have a new bf/gf - do you guys still wanna hang out?" - which is another strange situation to deal with.. ( as you were friends with both, previously ) Not sure how to approach this strange situation.
CNTRLCPL, we wonder about hanging out with the other partner after the divorce also especially if you want to remain friends with both. I guess it’s compartmentalization to just not bring up the other partner.
I am guessing swinger statistics are similar to vanilla when it comes to divorce. The amazing thing is how swinging can make a good relationship better. However if there are problems in the relationship it will probably not workout well.
I am guessing swinger statistics are similar to vanilla when it comes to divorce. The amazing thing is how swinging can make a good relationship better. However if there are problems in the relationship it will probably not workout well.
CNTRLCPL wrote:
25 years in the L.S. and we've lost countless sets of couples friends who's relationship did not survive. Our thinking is, maybe the relationship wasn't strong to begin with? Most of the couples we know, that have split were in that "staying together for the kids" mode. When the kids grew up, moved on... so did the couple.
It's a little bit traumatic to lose friends in this manner ( especially long time play friends that are part of your lives ) ... each time, it surprises us/catches us off guard. In our experience, next you get ( sometimes from both halves of the previous couple ) "Hey, I have a new bf/gf - do you guys still wanna hang out?" - which is another strange situation to deal with.. ( as you were friends with both, previously ) Not sure how to approach this strange situation.
YUP! It IS a bit traumatic and we HATE being caught in the middle, so to speak, with each half of the previous couple seemingly wanting to "win" us (for lack of a better term) in the divorce. We kind of have an unwritten rule that we'll be nice to both halves of the previous couple but we won't play with them or anything like that. It just feels too weird to us.
We know of quite a few swinger couples that got a divorce, but we’ve only been intimate with one other couple, who got a divorce, after we met them. Swinging, we were told, wasn’t their primary reason for divorce, but it looks like the husband is still swinging and the wife gave it up.
Very thoughtful question and one worth pondering. I wonder if the chances of survival are much different than Monogamist relationships. That said, what percentage of couples jump into the lifestyle without doing the research or educating themselves about the potential challenges?
Trial and error is NOT the preferred route to "Graduate Level Relationshipping". I highly recommend the work of Dr. Cari Oneal, www.drcarioneal.com, for those Lifestyle couples wanting to learn, educate themselves, improve their communication skills and work through the unique challenges swinging can bring. Best of luck to everyone in this community on their Lifestyle journey!
Trial and error is NOT the preferred route to "Graduate Level Relationshipping". I highly recommend the work of Dr. Cari Oneal, www.drcarioneal.com, for those Lifestyle couples wanting to learn, educate themselves, improve their communication skills and work through the unique challenges swinging can bring. Best of luck to everyone in this community on their Lifestyle journey!
One thing we've noticed (and even had a few close calls with ourselves) is that, once the initial thrill of swinging/swapping wears off a little bit, many people look for the NEXT big thrill...usually separate play. And THAT, if you're not really prepared for it and don't go into it with your eyes wide open, is when things can get really sticky.
I have an acquaintance in the lifestyle who is a professor of physiology who likes to talk at length about the "love hormone", oxytocin, and how powerful it can be in some lifestyle circumstances. I guess a subset of this issue might be how many swingers who break up do so because they fall in love with someone else in the lifestyle.
One particularly insidious behavior that we've, unfortunately, encountered are men, both single AND married, in the lifestyle who attempt to ply Ms. Evil by saying things like, "If you were mine I would never want to share you.". There are probably a fair number of women (and probably men) who might be susceptable to that type of talk if they're insecure in their primary relationship.
I have an acquaintance in the lifestyle who is a professor of physiology who likes to talk at length about the "love hormone", oxytocin, and how powerful it can be in some lifestyle circumstances. I guess a subset of this issue might be how many swingers who break up do so because they fall in love with someone else in the lifestyle.
One particularly insidious behavior that we've, unfortunately, encountered are men, both single AND married, in the lifestyle who attempt to ply Ms. Evil by saying things like, "If you were mine I would never want to share you.". There are probably a fair number of women (and probably men) who might be susceptable to that type of talk if they're insecure in their primary relationship.
EVILDOERS wrote:
One particularly insidious behavior that we've, unfortunately, encountered are men, both single AND married, in the lifestyle who attempt to ply Ms. Evil by saying things like, "If you were mine I would never want to share you.". There are probably a fair number of women (and probably men) who might be susceptable to that type of talk if they're insecure in their primary relationship.
That’s some bizarre shit...someone making that statement should not be swinging. That falls into the category of never again ever.
SKICOUPLE wrote:Agreed! First of all, there is no “mine” in a relationship and if you think there is, that’s a huge problem! Second, if they said that it would be the end of the conversation. If people come into this thinking it’s about fixing a problem or it will help the relationship they are sadly misinformed. We have all seen it. It’s about communication and fantasies.EVILDOERS wrote:
One particularly insidious behavior that we've, unfortunately, encountered are men, both single AND married, in the lifestyle who attempt to ply Ms. Evil by saying things like, "If you were mine I would never want to share you.". There are probably a fair number of women (and probably men) who might be susceptable to that type of talk if they're insecure in their primary relationship.
That’s some bizarre shit...someone making that statement should not be swinging. That falls into the category of never again ever.
Communication is the biggest thing. Yes I may be jealous in some scenarios or uncomfortable in certain scenarios. Yes we have bumped heads in the past w this stuff, but what we have walked away and learned was, being honest with each other above all else and communicating is the single most important thing. If your in the middle of things and your not comfortable its ok to say, hey, lets try something else, or even a, hey I'm exhausted I'm pulling the plug on this thing can save some hard feelings, anger, and resentment. Our transition to full swap was rocky at first but through experience, time, and patience, we really enjoy it now.
We have been married over 40 years. More than two thirds of our married life has been active in lifestyles. We have made and enjoyed so many great and wonderful friendships while in this type of social activity, yet nearly all are now gone. Divorce, family events, medical and financial problems among many other things have removed them from our relationships. Getting involved in lifestyles requires a very strong and stable marriage to begin. There has to be a strong love and trust between you and your partner before you even start to get involved with others in a more intimate relationship. We miss our friends, the fun, the company all the things that brought us together. UTHOTCPLEXTREME, we miss your company too. You both always made us smile. Being in lifestyles requires caution, honesty, trust, and good judgement. For us, we would never change anything. It has helped up enjoy each other in new and more exciting ways along with allowing us to meet some wonderful people. Do I recommend it to others? Nope, each needs to examine their own lives and reasons for getting involved. This lifestyle is not for everyone.
I thought we had responded to something like this forum post previously - but I don’t see it so we’ll take another ‘swing’ at it (pun intended).
We are NOT extremely experienced since we’ve only been in the LS since 2015. We have been married for >30 so whatever experience that brings with it may be useful.
To be clear - we had a head start. We started going to a LS friendly resort (Desire Pearl) in 2015, which we quickly fell in love with. We found this resort quite by accident (seriously, we were staying right next door and found the people on the beach there to be ‘our type of people’). So - for those who have never been - Desire is a VERY LS-friendly and very LS-positive environment - but it does not allow people to be pushed or pressured into things they don’t want to do. It is a VERY safe environment which allows innocent nude interaction without fear of groping or whatever other fears you may have. We have literally met hundreds of couples there over the course of 11 visits and over the last 5 years. By ‘meet’ I don’t mean we played with them. Desire is a naked resort so we had the opportunity to meet hundreds of couples while we were all naked. We didn’t play with them - but we got to know them in a way that we would argue you can ONLY do when you are naked with them. When all you have is your personality - people tend to be more transparent and authentic. Because of this head start - we were able to get hundreds of hours of advice from people who had been in the LS many, many, more years than we will ever be.
One common theme we found is that the couples who had been in the LS for a long time, and whom had been married for a long time were ALWAYS the easiest to be with. They had no drama, they had mastered the basics of communication, and they demonstrated complete and total respect for their partners and complete trust. Nearly all the couples we respected had given their partners a ‘get out of jail free’ card - meaning they ALL forgave easily. This is critical in the LS. Over the same time period, we also witnessed many of those couple who were NOT long-term couple and/or those who had NOT mastered their communicative skills. These couples almost always demonstrated some level of drama during the week. They also had a real hard time with the construct: “Forgive and forget” - and felt an unhealthy need to rub their partner’s nose in their mistakes.
From this, we concluded that long-term couples were what we were seeking - those who had mastered their communication and trust skills, and who were NOT looking for the LS to repair an already broken marriage. They tended to NOT be serial DTF (Down to fuck) “notch counters” and they tended to value the friendship over their playtime. We also have discovered that couples who treat play time as PLAY TIME, and were more playful in their approach to ‘naked time’ - are SOOO much more fun to be with!
In our relatively short time in this LS - this is what we have found. We have been so lucky to make very good friends - some whom we have played with, some we may never play with. What we treasure is the friendships we have made, we are developing, and those we continue to develop. We love spending time with LS couples who are best friends and who are looking for additional friendships where they can continue to enhance their relationships - and that can add that extra special ‘cherry on top’. The operative words there are ‘enhance’. Those that don’t enhance our relationship, we are not interested in. Those only looking for someone to share skin time with - also not interesting to us.
Maybe its because of this focus - we have been extremely lucky to have met couples who are very committed to each other. We have not personally witnessed any of the negative behaviors mentioned above. In our circle of friends, we are not aware of any having marital problems (realizing, of course, this does not mean they are not having problems . . . just that we haven’t seen them). We would genuinely be surprised to hear that any of them were having problems. We feel that the LS couples we have met, thus far, have been MORE committed and they have BETTER communicative skills, and they are MORE in love than ANY of our vanilla friends. That is the primary thing that attracts us to them and to this LS. We want those doctorates!
Having said that, we have total respect for EvilDoers and (I hope this is OK to share) had the opportunity of meeting them once. They give such awesome advice and were kind enough to give us several words of caution which we have taken to heart. (Thanks doers!) I suggest new AND experienced LS’ers pay attention. They have many years of experience.
So far, we have only seen long-term committed relationships where the LS has enhanced their relationship. Only time will tell if that changes, but in the meantime, we are very grateful to our LS friends for the positive examples they have set - and the model they have given us to follow.
While we have made several mistakes along the way . . . wait, let me be honest . . . I (the mistakes were ALL mine!!) have made many mistakes (this is the male half), but I married my best friend and she continues to trust my intentions and has so far been willing to forgive my missteps. (Another reason I feel blessed!). We have learned from our mistakes and they have made us MUCH better at identifying what we are looking for as a couple. Because of that - these missteps were mere speed bumps on our journey. I don’t know if we have our doctorates in relationship behavior yet . . . but, for now anyway, we will continue our journey. We would rather regret a few things we did than the things we didn’t do. So far - we have NO REGRETS about our experience in the LS. Fingers crossed!
We genuinely hope you will all find what you are looking for as well. For us - we find LS’ers model more of what we are looking for than do our vanilla friends. Hope that helps. Best of luck to all of you and thanks for a stimulating and insightful query. This is one of the reasons we have appreciated these forums - so much learning! . . . I’ll shut up now - sorry about the lengthy post.
We really didn’t know what we were looking for and so we ventured to meet a few couples initially
We are NOT extremely experienced since we’ve only been in the LS since 2015. We have been married for >30 so whatever experience that brings with it may be useful.
To be clear - we had a head start. We started going to a LS friendly resort (Desire Pearl) in 2015, which we quickly fell in love with. We found this resort quite by accident (seriously, we were staying right next door and found the people on the beach there to be ‘our type of people’). So - for those who have never been - Desire is a VERY LS-friendly and very LS-positive environment - but it does not allow people to be pushed or pressured into things they don’t want to do. It is a VERY safe environment which allows innocent nude interaction without fear of groping or whatever other fears you may have. We have literally met hundreds of couples there over the course of 11 visits and over the last 5 years. By ‘meet’ I don’t mean we played with them. Desire is a naked resort so we had the opportunity to meet hundreds of couples while we were all naked. We didn’t play with them - but we got to know them in a way that we would argue you can ONLY do when you are naked with them. When all you have is your personality - people tend to be more transparent and authentic. Because of this head start - we were able to get hundreds of hours of advice from people who had been in the LS many, many, more years than we will ever be.
One common theme we found is that the couples who had been in the LS for a long time, and whom had been married for a long time were ALWAYS the easiest to be with. They had no drama, they had mastered the basics of communication, and they demonstrated complete and total respect for their partners and complete trust. Nearly all the couples we respected had given their partners a ‘get out of jail free’ card - meaning they ALL forgave easily. This is critical in the LS. Over the same time period, we also witnessed many of those couple who were NOT long-term couple and/or those who had NOT mastered their communicative skills. These couples almost always demonstrated some level of drama during the week. They also had a real hard time with the construct: “Forgive and forget” - and felt an unhealthy need to rub their partner’s nose in their mistakes.
From this, we concluded that long-term couples were what we were seeking - those who had mastered their communication and trust skills, and who were NOT looking for the LS to repair an already broken marriage. They tended to NOT be serial DTF (Down to fuck) “notch counters” and they tended to value the friendship over their playtime. We also have discovered that couples who treat play time as PLAY TIME, and were more playful in their approach to ‘naked time’ - are SOOO much more fun to be with!
In our relatively short time in this LS - this is what we have found. We have been so lucky to make very good friends - some whom we have played with, some we may never play with. What we treasure is the friendships we have made, we are developing, and those we continue to develop. We love spending time with LS couples who are best friends and who are looking for additional friendships where they can continue to enhance their relationships - and that can add that extra special ‘cherry on top’. The operative words there are ‘enhance’. Those that don’t enhance our relationship, we are not interested in. Those only looking for someone to share skin time with - also not interesting to us.
Maybe its because of this focus - we have been extremely lucky to have met couples who are very committed to each other. We have not personally witnessed any of the negative behaviors mentioned above. In our circle of friends, we are not aware of any having marital problems (realizing, of course, this does not mean they are not having problems . . . just that we haven’t seen them). We would genuinely be surprised to hear that any of them were having problems. We feel that the LS couples we have met, thus far, have been MORE committed and they have BETTER communicative skills, and they are MORE in love than ANY of our vanilla friends. That is the primary thing that attracts us to them and to this LS. We want those doctorates!
Having said that, we have total respect for EvilDoers and (I hope this is OK to share) had the opportunity of meeting them once. They give such awesome advice and were kind enough to give us several words of caution which we have taken to heart. (Thanks doers!) I suggest new AND experienced LS’ers pay attention. They have many years of experience.
So far, we have only seen long-term committed relationships where the LS has enhanced their relationship. Only time will tell if that changes, but in the meantime, we are very grateful to our LS friends for the positive examples they have set - and the model they have given us to follow.
While we have made several mistakes along the way . . . wait, let me be honest . . . I (the mistakes were ALL mine!!) have made many mistakes (this is the male half), but I married my best friend and she continues to trust my intentions and has so far been willing to forgive my missteps. (Another reason I feel blessed!). We have learned from our mistakes and they have made us MUCH better at identifying what we are looking for as a couple. Because of that - these missteps were mere speed bumps on our journey. I don’t know if we have our doctorates in relationship behavior yet . . . but, for now anyway, we will continue our journey. We would rather regret a few things we did than the things we didn’t do. So far - we have NO REGRETS about our experience in the LS. Fingers crossed!
We genuinely hope you will all find what you are looking for as well. For us - we find LS’ers model more of what we are looking for than do our vanilla friends. Hope that helps. Best of luck to all of you and thanks for a stimulating and insightful query. This is one of the reasons we have appreciated these forums - so much learning! . . . I’ll shut up now - sorry about the lengthy post.
We really didn’t know what we were looking for and so we ventured to meet a few couples initially