It seems like there are more and more couples in the lifestyle who are embracing open marriages/relationships and/or polyamory. I know the textbook definitions of each but I'm curious as to how different couples define them within their relationships and if or how they intersect or crossover at all.
We all have our different play-styles and dynamics and I'm very interested in how different couples who classify themselves as open or poly, or both, define those paradigms as a couple and navigate the intricacies of these lifestyles inside and outside of traditional swinging.
Many talk about the difficulty and frustration of finding a good four-way connection as being the impetus for deciding to go the open or poly route. Are there other things that factored into your decision to go in that direction? I'm also interested in hearing from couples who tried one or both of those lifestyles and, for whatever reason, pulled back. Thanks in advance for sharing your stories, thoughts, and ideas.
Evil
We all have our different play-styles and dynamics and I'm very interested in how different couples who classify themselves as open or poly, or both, define those paradigms as a couple and navigate the intricacies of these lifestyles inside and outside of traditional swinging.
Many talk about the difficulty and frustration of finding a good four-way connection as being the impetus for deciding to go the open or poly route. Are there other things that factored into your decision to go in that direction? I'm also interested in hearing from couples who tried one or both of those lifestyles and, for whatever reason, pulled back. Thanks in advance for sharing your stories, thoughts, and ideas.
Evil
Definitely the "open" category here. Not looking for other 'relationships', but definitely looking for individual FWB situations. C'mon, you know how it is after so many years of this lifestyle. As Huey Lewis said, I need a new drug, right? haha
Just about being able to go and find and enjoy sex with others.
Just about being able to go and find and enjoy sex with others.
Most of the people we know, who self define as polyamorous, are really interested in something akin to a romance, with some level of commitment. Obviously, we don't know all that many poly people. In the double digits, not even the triple digits, and, most of them already knew each other before we met them. Like swingers, the people we know share a sense of some sort of group identity, and group activity. We have been to a few events a few years back and felt pretty welcome, albeit, we are not exactly on the same page. We were upfront about it. Nice people! It's a pretty small sampling, so it should be taken as an anecdotal, rather a description of the way it really is, or should be. We want to avoid labeling a whole group.
Open marriages. Most of the people we know who self identify as in open marriages, seem to be in one committed relationship, which often includes children, shared bank accounts, all the trappings of a vanilla relationship, and closed in those aspects of life, but as a pair, they have each others blessings, to have sexual affairs and romantic relationships, with other people, that really don't have to include their primary partners presence. Most of the people we know, that self identify, individually, and as a couple, as in an open marriage, started out swinging as a couple. Swingers scene is the closest thing to a group that they may move in as a collective. We are somewhat in this category. We tend to only take the relationship to this level when one of us has an especially strong connection with someone. Here again this is an anecdotal accounting based on just the people we know.
Open marriages. Most of the people we know who self identify as in open marriages, seem to be in one committed relationship, which often includes children, shared bank accounts, all the trappings of a vanilla relationship, and closed in those aspects of life, but as a pair, they have each others blessings, to have sexual affairs and romantic relationships, with other people, that really don't have to include their primary partners presence. Most of the people we know, that self identify, individually, and as a couple, as in an open marriage, started out swinging as a couple. Swingers scene is the closest thing to a group that they may move in as a collective. We are somewhat in this category. We tend to only take the relationship to this level when one of us has an especially strong connection with someone. Here again this is an anecdotal accounting based on just the people we know.
Our definition of our open marriage is that we can have sex/relationships with other people, with some restrictions, such as protection is a must, and we should be safe in other ways. Hall pass seems to be the term used on this site. It kind of depends on the moment how much the other wants to hear about the details, but the other always knows when a meetup is planned. We typically do that by all parties being included in a kik group, if things start to progress, or by checking in with each other if either of us is traveling.
As for the impetus, a good portion of it for us has been that swinging isn't really fulfilling, as we both like to have more of a relationship with our partners. Open and separate play is just easier to accomplish that, for us.
As for the impetus, a good portion of it for us has been that swinging isn't really fulfilling, as we both like to have more of a relationship with our partners. Open and separate play is just easier to accomplish that, for us.
Thanks for the responses so far. I thought of a couple of additional questions. Are you seeking, finding and connecting with other open/poly people here on Swingular or are you finding people thru other means? Also, do you find that most of the people you connect with are single or are they in their own primary relationships? Does it matter much to you if they are single or coupled?
We have friends in both of those communities and dip in and out of both but don't actually consider either what we have or want.
Simply: Swinging is generally, ironically, too casual for us while also having way too many cultural rules (but we fucking love your parties), We also find that while we have fun with and enjoy the company of a lot of swingers, most are culturally pretty different from us. Polyamory, as people play it, is typically far too intense for us and that community also has a lot of cultural strictures and high expectations (but we've had great parties there, too, and have made really close friends, even though we're not into Star Wars π).
So we look for genuine friends, because that's how it started and that's how it's always been with us. We're as likely to go to coffee than get naked. And our lives are crazy busy, so we don't have a lot of time to give. But we each go out with someone probably once a week. That said, it's not necessarily the same person and actually getting together for a night out, rather than coffee or lunch, probably only happens twice a month each at most. Once a month is more common.
We don't really have rules. That's kind of antithetical to how our relationship works in general. Instead, we spend focused time with each other. We go to coffee together once a week. We go to lunch together once a week. And we go out together once a week. We plan that on Saturday over coffee or ok a run. We also talk constantly. We've always been completely open with each other. Having a mutually wanted and understood open relationship makes transparency easy for us. We also like to inevitably introduce anyone were seeing regularly to each other. We also don't pry at all but like to be sure the other person's spouse or primary partner is good and that they're relationship is healthy.
It sounds a lot like what people call polyamory except that it stays casual. For that reason, the other people need to realize that's all it will ever be. The flip side to that is making sure we only get involved with grounded and reliable people. We've been doing it long enough that we both have a whole set of friends we might go out with on and off. For us, regardless of their jobs, they're often artistic, musical, literary, dancers, etc..
Simply: Swinging is generally, ironically, too casual for us while also having way too many cultural rules (but we fucking love your parties), We also find that while we have fun with and enjoy the company of a lot of swingers, most are culturally pretty different from us. Polyamory, as people play it, is typically far too intense for us and that community also has a lot of cultural strictures and high expectations (but we've had great parties there, too, and have made really close friends, even though we're not into Star Wars π).
So we look for genuine friends, because that's how it started and that's how it's always been with us. We're as likely to go to coffee than get naked. And our lives are crazy busy, so we don't have a lot of time to give. But we each go out with someone probably once a week. That said, it's not necessarily the same person and actually getting together for a night out, rather than coffee or lunch, probably only happens twice a month each at most. Once a month is more common.
We don't really have rules. That's kind of antithetical to how our relationship works in general. Instead, we spend focused time with each other. We go to coffee together once a week. We go to lunch together once a week. And we go out together once a week. We plan that on Saturday over coffee or ok a run. We also talk constantly. We've always been completely open with each other. Having a mutually wanted and understood open relationship makes transparency easy for us. We also like to inevitably introduce anyone were seeing regularly to each other. We also don't pry at all but like to be sure the other person's spouse or primary partner is good and that they're relationship is healthy.
It sounds a lot like what people call polyamory except that it stays casual. For that reason, the other people need to realize that's all it will ever be. The flip side to that is making sure we only get involved with grounded and reliable people. We've been doing it long enough that we both have a whole set of friends we might go out with on and off. For us, regardless of their jobs, they're often artistic, musical, literary, dancers, etc..
Evildoers - We find people to go out with everywhere. More in real life than on the internet. Frankly, the internet is exhausting and apps are worse. π We just kinda drop hints, test waters, and open up when the signals are clear and we're interested in exploring further. The reality is that chemistry is everything and we've learned to follow it and point it out when the time is right. We've found far more people are perfectly fine with it and actually doing it than we all pretend. People have several times approached us. The trick tho, is being clear about what it is and is not right off the bat. We also usually go slow to test the waters and watch how things shape up. We've learned to wade out and then swim deep rather than five in and try to find a place where we can stand again. To that point, coupled people are more steady and in-synch Single people are often either unreliable, don't understand a committed person's time restraints, or eventually want more.
I (male half) identify as polyamorous, while my partner (female half) describes herself as "75% polyamorous", in her words. That is, she would probably prefer a monogamous relationship but definitely enjoys the attention of more than one man and accepts my polyamory. For me, the polyamory feels to be an orientation that is hard-wired. That is, it's always been a part of me, long before it was in the social lexicon, and I don't feel it's something I can change. Also, it is not about sex, but about loving and committing. There are many polyamorous people who identify as asexual, and polyamory actually gives them a chance to be in a committed relationship without feeling like they have to deprive their partner of sex (the partner is free to obtain sex in their other relationships).
Although I am currently in more than one relationship, I don't feel compelled to seek out other partners. It's just that if a romantic relationship develops spontaneously, I can go with it. And it is very hard for me, almost impossible, to ever turn my back on someone I have loved, whereas other people seem to have no problem breaking off a relationship that isn't working and then moving on to someone else. Unusually strong attachments are, I think, part of the polyamorous mindset. What I'm getting at is polyamory isn't really a lifestyle that you try out, any more than homosexuality or bisexuality is. It is an orientation that you have or don't; it's not something you choose.
Swinging is about sex. Polyamorous people may swing, just as anyone else might. And the swinging can be just as unattached, NSA, as it is for anyone else. That is, just because I am capable of more than one commited relationship, doesn't mean I'm not also capable of lusting and desiring the variety of swinging. They're two separate things.
My partner identifies as demisexual, which means she needs an emotional attachment to feel sexual. On the surface that might look like polyamory, but it is also different. She doesn't necessarily want more than one committed relationship, but she has to at least like the other person on an emotional level before she'll desire to have sex with him. When the connection, respect and emotional safety are all there, then she is extremely sexual. I suspect many of those in the lifestyle who want to develop friendships with the people they swing with are more demisexual, like my partner, than they are polyamorous. Most people who are truly polyamorous don't feel like it's a choice.
Although I am currently in more than one relationship, I don't feel compelled to seek out other partners. It's just that if a romantic relationship develops spontaneously, I can go with it. And it is very hard for me, almost impossible, to ever turn my back on someone I have loved, whereas other people seem to have no problem breaking off a relationship that isn't working and then moving on to someone else. Unusually strong attachments are, I think, part of the polyamorous mindset. What I'm getting at is polyamory isn't really a lifestyle that you try out, any more than homosexuality or bisexuality is. It is an orientation that you have or don't; it's not something you choose.
Swinging is about sex. Polyamorous people may swing, just as anyone else might. And the swinging can be just as unattached, NSA, as it is for anyone else. That is, just because I am capable of more than one commited relationship, doesn't mean I'm not also capable of lusting and desiring the variety of swinging. They're two separate things.
My partner identifies as demisexual, which means she needs an emotional attachment to feel sexual. On the surface that might look like polyamory, but it is also different. She doesn't necessarily want more than one committed relationship, but she has to at least like the other person on an emotional level before she'll desire to have sex with him. When the connection, respect and emotional safety are all there, then she is extremely sexual. I suspect many of those in the lifestyle who want to develop friendships with the people they swing with are more demisexual, like my partner, than they are polyamorous. Most people who are truly polyamorous don't feel like it's a choice.
EVILDOERS wrote:
Are you seeking, finding and connecting with other open/poly people here on Swingular or are you finding people thru other means?
I should have included that in my original. We are not actively seeking, and have seen a sharp decline in messages to us since we added to our profile that my wife isn't interested in meeting new guys.
We have met great people on Swingular, but have mostly only approached couples when we are looking for that aspect. For us personally, my wife isn't interested in finding additional partners. I imagine it would be relatively easy for a woman in an open relationship, but we haven't put that to the test.
Probably part of what makes this easier for us is this is not something that defines us. Who we do or do not have sex with is a very small part of us.
EVILDOERS wrote:
Does it matter much to you if they are single or coupled?
Integrity matters. Relationship status only matters in that if they are in a relationship, the other party should be aware, and ok with it. We are married, and our marriage and family come first. That is probably easier for someone, who is also married.
EVILDOERS wrote:
Thanks for the responses so far. I thought of a couple of additional questions. Are you seeking, finding and connecting with other open/poly people here on Swingular or are you finding people thru other means? Also, do you find that most of the people you connect with are single or are they in their own primary relationships? Does it matter much to you if they are single or coupled?
Great question. Almost exclusively non swinger community singles surprisingly. Have tried amongst the swingers but they seem to have a very quid pro quo mentality.
PAIRPLAYERS wrote:EVILDOERS wrote:
Thanks for the responses so far. I thought of a couple of additional questions. Are you seeking, finding and connecting with other open/poly people here on Swingular or are you finding people thru other means? Also, do you find that most of the people you connect with are single or are they in their own primary relationships? Does it matter much to you if they are single or coupled?
Great question. Almost exclusively non swinger community singles surprisingly. Have tried amongst the swingers but they seem to have a very quid pro quo mentality.
Yes, they do! We noticed that dynamic almost immediately when we first entered the lifestyle and were actually talking about it just today in the context of no quid pro quo being a distinct positive in the column of open or poly lifestyles vs. swinging. SO many times when I was even just TALKING to a woman her partner or husband would basically go grab Ms. Evil, no matter what she was doing or who she was talking to, and assume it was perfectly okay to just do more or less whatever he wanted. After all, I was doing something/anything with HIS partner!
Wow! Great responses everyone. SO informative! Thank-you.
The couples dynamic, is probably why "swinging" initially seemed to exclude single men, playing alone, without one's spouse, using hall passes, and so on and so forth. Two individuals form a couple, and as a couple, most of us tend to form an agreement that we will make some of our choices in favor of what's best for the twosome, rather than what we as individuals might have decided to do, were we single. Once a couple becomes parents, choices become less centered in the self. In my opinion all of that is mostly healthy, and now as the father of five healthy and happy successful adult offspring, the most meaningful accomplishment, and experience the two of us share together, is that of being a couple and parents. The loss of self, that stems from commitment to the happiness and wellbeing of my family, beyond my own druthers, is the best part of my life, and revealed the best within me. Institutions, and highly opinionated people can take some of the joy out of the twosome and family dynamic, should they try and level control, beyond advice. Swinging is sometimes approached like an institution, and there are pundits and keepers of the faith, within the swinging community, that suggest they are right about everything for everyone. Early on in our swinging lifestyle experience, we probably errored a bit in how we might have demonstrated our protective behaviors in favor of one another as a twosome. If some one tried to violate the boundaries of consent, or if after upsetting someone, felt that rubbing salt in the wound was an apology, then harsh reprisals were perhaps appropriate. If they were just stumbling around trying to figure this crazy world out, then no thank you is enough. If they were full of discovery and awe about what's just right for them, and it isn't a good fit for us, then a respectful no thank you is appropriate. We are still more dedicated to one another, and the family, than our lifestyle adventures. Over the years, discovering that we both really do enjoy each others adventures in pleasure, when just one of us is the focal point of someone's desire, we have become somewhat less restrictive on who, how, and what we encourage our significant other to experience, should they feel the desire, and hence ourselves as well. Liberty can stem, expand, and flourish from a true devotion between two people.
We all go about this adventure in a fluid and evolving manner, with ups and downs, joy and maybe some occasional anguish or disappointment. We hope whatever the best outcome for all you might be, you find it!
We all go about this adventure in a fluid and evolving manner, with ups and downs, joy and maybe some occasional anguish or disappointment. We hope whatever the best outcome for all you might be, you find it!
We have found we are very flexible but with preferences. If we contact a couple and meet them for a drink or dinner and we have some great conversation and the attraction is there, it opens numerous possibilities. If we get naked the experience can range from OMG to letβs not go there again. Polyamory requires effort and commitment that we are not looking for, we want FWB that we can see when the timing works out. Not getting naked is ok also and sometimes we meet folks in the lifestyle that just become friends and not sexual partners.
We try to keep it simple and never take it seriously and we have been fortunate to have a close group of friends who we enjoy being with. We also enjoy meeting new couples wherever we are. We enjoy events where we can meet other swingers like Naughty in Nawlins. We have had some incredible experiences and again just some so so experiences also.
The point is we do not define ourselves as polyamory but we know what we like and we never consider the specifics of what it is besides swinging.
We try to keep it simple and never take it seriously and we have been fortunate to have a close group of friends who we enjoy being with. We also enjoy meeting new couples wherever we are. We enjoy events where we can meet other swingers like Naughty in Nawlins. We have had some incredible experiences and again just some so so experiences also.
The point is we do not define ourselves as polyamory but we know what we like and we never consider the specifics of what it is besides swinging.
Mr. and I have been in a committed poly relationship with another couple for 3 1/2 yrs. Both we and the other couple had been in the LS for 3-4 years before this. Our trajectories were different - Mr. and I were pretty bored with swinging. We had lots of fun adventures, but we both tend to crave more intimacy and I, in particular, don't find myself attracted to many men until I am intellectually attracted to them, and that generally takes more time and effort than the average swinger wants to put in. We had tried only dating unicorns for a year, and then went to more of an open style marriage (infrequent, but occasional hall passes. Sometimes with both members of the same couple, sometimes not). But even that wasn't as satisfying as I wanted and my interest in the LS was waning. That's when we stumbled upon our Others. We were at a vanilla swirl party (a few LS, mostly vanilla) and immediately picked them out as LS. What do you know, we clicked. I immediately was drawn to the husband, he to me, and our spouses soon felt the same. We began spending time together as a foursome pretty much from that day forward.
Their trajectory was different than ours. They were classic swingers--meet at a party, click, arrange sex or fuck then and there. Sometimes these people became friends over time, sometimes not. They didn't crave the intimacy we did; they enjoyed the spontaneity, excitement and variety. Their relationship was never open. No hall passes, almost always straight partner swap with another couple, but occasionally they would mix that up at a party situation. So it's kind of surprising that they ended up down this road of polyamory. We just clicked and loved every minute with each other and really never have wanted to be apart.
HOWEVER, we are all four still swingers in some way or another. It has become more apparent after the honeymoon phase has settled into a deeper, more real relationship. They occasionally still want that exciting fling. We do too, only less often as the stars REALLY have to align for me. Mr and I still occasionally like sex with a deeper connection. There have been moments when we resented their desire for casual sex. There have been moments when they resented our need for deeper connection. But in the end, like any LS couple, we were able to talk it through. And we were able to realize how all of us can be fulfilled and have our needs met. We just had to drop the jealousy and insecurity and really want to please the people we love.
Their trajectory was different than ours. They were classic swingers--meet at a party, click, arrange sex or fuck then and there. Sometimes these people became friends over time, sometimes not. They didn't crave the intimacy we did; they enjoyed the spontaneity, excitement and variety. Their relationship was never open. No hall passes, almost always straight partner swap with another couple, but occasionally they would mix that up at a party situation. So it's kind of surprising that they ended up down this road of polyamory. We just clicked and loved every minute with each other and really never have wanted to be apart.
HOWEVER, we are all four still swingers in some way or another. It has become more apparent after the honeymoon phase has settled into a deeper, more real relationship. They occasionally still want that exciting fling. We do too, only less often as the stars REALLY have to align for me. Mr and I still occasionally like sex with a deeper connection. There have been moments when we resented their desire for casual sex. There have been moments when they resented our need for deeper connection. But in the end, like any LS couple, we were able to talk it through. And we were able to realize how all of us can be fulfilled and have our needs met. We just had to drop the jealousy and insecurity and really want to please the people we love.
I must say that I so appreciate Evil asking these questions and so many people posting incredibly thoughtful and reasoned responses. I have learned more from this thread alone than I have in years of fooling around on various swinger and fetish sites. Thank you all so very much! I, for one, completely appreciate it.