Swingers Forum - 911 THE REAL TRUTH

[video]google::video.google.com[/video]

PLEASE WATCH AND DESCRIBE HOW YOU FEEL. SAFE FOR KIDS, NO NUDITY OR CUSSING JUST VERY INTERESTING

no B52 has ever hit the empire state building. this video is bull

NEW YORK- Lost amid the hoopla surrounding the celebrations of the end of World War II has been the 50th anniversary of the army plane crash into the Empire State Building. Many do not know of the tragic incident of July 28, 1945 -- the day a B-25 bomber, lost in fog, rammed into what was then the world's tallest building. Fewer, still, remember the miraculous survival of the woman who fell 75 stories when the cables to her elevator were severed.

Lieutenant Colonel William F. Smith, Jr., a decorated veteran of 100 combat missions, was piloting the bomber from his home in Bedford, Massachusetts to Newark, New Jersey to pick up his commanding officer, before returning to home base in South Dakota. The flight plan called for Smith to land at LaGuardia Airport. A dense fog over the city led the air traffic controller to direct that a landing be made. Smith, however, apparently believing he could maneuver safely through the fog, asked and received permission to fly on to Newark -- on the other side of Manhattan from LaGuardia. The last thing the air traffic controller told Smith was, 'At the present time, I can't see the top of the Empire State Building.'

The War Department, now a section of the Defense Department, later determined the pilot erred in judgment when electing to fly over Manhattan in the weather conditions which prevailed at the time' -- Smith should never have been cleared to proceed on to Newark. Disoriented by the dense fog, he apparently believed he was on Manhattan's west side.

Smith's final blunder came when he passed the Chrysler Building. Had he kicked the left rudder, he would have been safe; instead, he went right rudder and directly on a path to the Empire State Building. At 200 miles per hour, the unarmed trainer bomber screamed down 42nd Street and banked south over 5th Avenue. The pilot tried desperately to climb, but it was too late. At 9:40 that Saturday morning, the B-25 slammed into the 79th floor of the Empire State Building.

Luckily, the accident occurred on a weekend, with only about 1,500 people in the building -- compared with the 10,000-15,000 on an average weekday. Still, 14 died in the accident -- 11 in the building, plus Colonel Smith and the other two occupants of the plane. Hardest hit was the Catholic War Relief Office on the 79th floor, directly in the path of the bomber. Eight relief office workers were killed.

Extensive Damage Reported

Damage to the building and the surrounding area was extensive. An 18-by-20 foot hole was gouged by the B-25, and one of the plane's engines plowed through the building, emerging on the 33rd Street side and crashing through the roof of a neighboring building. Upon impact, windows shattered, and glass fell to the street. When the bomber hit, its fuel tanks exploded, sending flames racing across the 79th floor in all directions. According to Althea S. Lethbridge, a secretary for a trading company on the 72nd floor, 'Everything shook. (At the window), we saw flames below and above us. It was scary; we didn't know how fireproof the building was.'

Lethbridge and those not severely injured had to walk 70 flights down the darkened stairwell. Many reported seeing flaming debris fall down the elevator shafts. Unaware that the plane's other engine and part of its landing gear had fallen through the elevator shaft, rescue workers used elevators to transport casualties.

Unbeknownst to rescuers, when the hoist and governor cables of one of the elevators had been severed, ropes to other cars had been weakened. Nevertheless, the elevators had to be used to transport those severely injured, including Betty Lou Oliver. As the plane hit, Oliver, an elevator operator, was blown out of her post on the 80th floor and badly burned. After receiving first aid, she was put in another car to go down to an ambulance. As the elevator doors closed, rescue workers heard what sounded like a gunshot but what was, in fact, the snapping of elevator cables weakened by the crash. The car with Oliver inside, now at the 75th floor, plunged to the sub-basement, a fall of over 1,000 feet. Rescuers had to cut a hole in the car to get to the badly injured elevator operator.

Despite a harrowing experience, Oliver survived, due in large part to the elevator safety devices which served their function, though perhaps not as envisioned. The elevator car safety could not set because the governor cable had been severed by the plane's impact. Therefore, other factors contributed to slowing the elevator and 'cushioning' its fall. As the elevator fell, the compensating cables, hanging from beneath the car, piled up in the pit and acted as a coiled spring, slowing the elevator. Also, the hatchway was of a 'high-pressure' design, with minimum clearance around the car. In such a small space, the air was compressed under the falling elevator. With such a tight fit of the car in the hatchway, the trapped air created an air cushion in the lower portion of the shaft -- thereby further slowing the elevator car and allowing its occupant to survive.

Though this accident can certainly be noted as a tragedy, some comfort can be found; the loss of life was certainly not as great as it could have been. Had it occurred on a weekday, the accident would have claimed many more casualties. If the plane had been a fully armed B-25 bomber instead of a trainer, the destruction and devastation could have been catastrophic. In addition, had the elevator been installed improperly or had its safety devices been of poor quality -- even though they may not have worked exactly as envisioned, they still performed their duty by saving a human life -- Ms. Oliver could not have fallen 1,000 feet in an elevator and lived to tell about it.

In the March 1957 Reader's Digest, an article was published concerning the 'Nightmare on the 79th floor of the Empire State Building.' Following the Reader's Digest report, a letter was written by an Otis Elevator Company supervisor who was in charge of the elevator repair. The writer, who wished to remain anonymous, presented a detailed and colorful explanation of the damage and extensive repair effort. Following is a synopsis of the elevator supervisor's report.

Elevators Damaged

I was superintendent for Otis Elevator Company and in charge of installing the 69 elevators when the Empire State Building was erected in 1930-31. When the steel was up to the main floor, I got in with my men -- the first week in May 1930. On May 1, 1931, the building with the elevators was completed, a remarkable undertaking in so short a time. On that day, we had lunch on the 86th floor. The party included James Walker, then New York City mayor; Franklin D. Roosevelt, then governor of the state; and my good friend Al Smith, ex-governor and president of the Empire State Corporation.

While the building was under construction, I always had a car running, so I could take Governor Smith and his party to the top. Architects and construction men from all over the world visited the building while it was under construction.

In September, at the peak, 3,500 men worked on the construction, and temporary elevators had to take them up and down. They never walked much -- six stories, at the most, to the top of the steel.

When the army bomber struck the building, I was called in to take charge of repairing the damage and get all 11 elevators running up to the 80th floor -- ten Bank 'G', one freight and #2 tower car, from 79th to 86th floor.

One plane motor went right through the bottom of the car equipment, hitting one of our guide rails (3-1/2 x 5"), doubling it in a 'V' shape. The motor then went through the building, tore a hole 20 feet wide, took the windows and wall down with it (78 floors) and landed in a building across the 33rd Street side. The plane was moving upward when it struck. (The pilot must have seen the building.) Walls between the three columns were torn 40 feet wide, the plane taking bricks and windows from the 78th and 79th floors with it, as well as one 10" I-beam -- eight feet inside the building -- supporting the 79th floor; the 20 foot long beam had a 30" bow. The plane penetrated the #6 and #7 car hatch walls, cutting the cable on the #6 car that was on its way down. Our selector in the motor room indicated the cables were cut when the car was at about the 38th floor.

Cables Sheared

All the governor and safety cables were sheared, so the car went into free fall. Fortunately for the female operator, the safety cable was severed; if not, the governor in the motor room would have applied the safety device under the cable. The car would then have stopped at the 34th and 35th floor in a blind hatch (blind hatch means no doors from the 40th to the main floor express cars) -- with marble and brick walls to break through to find where the car was located. When anything like that would happen, a mechanic can take the people off to the car next to his. Doors exist between the cars for that purpose, but the #7 car was hanging in the cables and burning on the 80th floor. The #6 car was afire -- it, too, stuck up there. The girl operator might have died from smoke suffocation.

A few seconds later, the car was in the basement. Fortunately, a basement door was in the #6 car shaft. The car doors were completely ripped out. No doubt, the air pressure -- caused by the car coming down -- blasted open the door in the pit. The operator stood in the corner, where the car switch was located. The rest of the car was filled with steel, bricks and plane parts. It surprised me that she was not more badly hurt.

When the installers first tested the safeties on the elevators, they had full load capacity -- 3500 lb -- in the car and ran them at 1,200 fpm from the tenth floor right down to the oil bluffers in the pits.

Now, the car was empty, and the cables under the car formed another cushion. The counterweight (balancing weight) was at about the 50th floor when the cables were cut. Over 10,000 lbs of iron started down. The two safety cables, also cut, struck the pit buffer block, went through 12" of concrete, shearing thirty 1" rivets; two 15" channels imbedded in concrete. (The column was only five feet away from the buffer block, the buffer piston and the weight oil buffer.) A steel rod -- 4" and about nine feet long -- went right through the concrete, broke a water main pipe, flooded the sub-basement, went through an 8" solid brick wall and landed in a storeroom in the sub-basement.

This was in addition to the oil, gas and bodies of the people from the 79th floor. We had the police emergency squad with us for ten days. When cleaned from the top of the car, we had to cut the cable by hand to get them out. It was a mess to clean up!

Motor Cuts Hoisted

The motor went through the doors, the #6 and #7 cars, and over the hall, taking the wall and hatch doors with it down the #2 hatch. The motor cut the cables to that car. Cars #1 and #2 were shut down on the main floor and only slid down the bumpers with all the cables, doors, plane motor and parts on top of the #2 car. The counterweight was up at the 80th floor. When the cables were cut, 10,000 lbs of steel started down, but luckily, the two governor cables were okay. The governor and safety caught the weight at the 76th floor and hung there. When the #6 car was on the way down, the #7 car operator stood at the 80th floor -- awaiting orders from the starter at the main floor for the signal to start down. When the plane struck, the operator was blown out into the hall.

The #7 car hanging in the cables (at the 80th floor) was all burnt up. The metal trim and car-operating switch were all melted. The guide rails were all knocked out under the car at the 79th floor.

Five months after the accident, the girl (Betty Lou Oliver) who was in the #6 car visited the building. I talked with her. She did not know what happened. It was over in a few seconds. She took one of the cars and made a full trip with it. That took 'guts' after all she had been through.

I was there one year before the job was finished. The #1 car got all busted up and had to be replaced. In a week, we had six cars in operation, next #1-2 cars and finally #6-7 cars. We had some job keeping the men's time and the materials straight. The Army had to pay for all damage done by the bomber; the First Insurance Company paid for the damage by fire.

We had to replace all our equipment in four hatches from the 76th floor to the top, replacing all electric conduits and wiring from the 64th floor up. We had to get in an elevator hoist containing 5,000 ft of 1/2" steel cables on it. One armature had a cracked shaft; we had to replace it: a weight of 9,500 lbs. We took it in on the main floor, hoisted it up to the 79th floor in the #6 hatch, hauled it over the hall to the #2 tower car hatch, picked it up with a chain fall -- attached to the main rails -- to the 82nd floor motor room and up in the machine. The damaged armature had to go down the same way.

We also had to hoist the #6 counterweight frame up to the 80th floor.

Only one elevator fell. Number 1 and 2 cars were shut down at the main floor; #6 car was in the pit, with the #7 car hanging in the cables on the 80th floor. Cars three, four, five, eight, nine and ten were in their own wells. The only damage to them was hatch doors at the 78th and 79th floors being scorched by fire. We had to put in new compensating cables on the freight car running from the sub-basement to the 80th floor. They were damaged when the pit filled with water from the broken water main. After the pit was pumped and safety switches dried, we had that car running in a few days.

Part of the plane slid down the outside of the building on the 34th Street side, landing on the opposite side of the 5th floor. Some boys picked up plane parts and sold them to souvenir hunters on the street.

Industry Tribute

This historical report serves as a tribute to the members of the elevator industry who sprang into action to repair the elevators which were severely damaged during this unusual accident. Although this event was the first high-rise building catastrophe which wreaked havoc on elevator and escalator equipment, it would certainly not be the last.

The World Trade Center and Oklahoma City bombings, as well as earthquakes and fires which have occurred in and around high-rise structures over the last 50 years, have presented severe challenges to our industry's field personnel and repair mechanics. Through dedication and hard work, field workers have, time and again, restored elevator service in record time and, as so often reported in ELEVATOR WORLD, assisted in the rescue of building occupants. This report is dedicated to the elevator industry personnel who have risen to the occasion and performed with selfless, heroic effort.

REPRINTS of this historical supplement can be obtained by contacting Stacie Hyman at phone: (334) 479-4514.

Elevator World Uncovers New Information

During the investigation into the event at the Empire State Building, ELEVATOR WORLD uncovered a major misconception regarding the circumstances.

It has long been believed that the elevator operator who fell 75 stories was operating her elevator when the crash severed the cables to her car. Our recent investigation found that Betty Lou Oliver had actually been thrown from her car station post during the aircraft's initial impact. When the plane hit the building, Oliver's car was parked at the 80th floor. The crash severed elevator cables, but those supporting Oliver's car remained intact, although they and many other cable attachments were weakened. After receiving care for severe burns, Oliver was taking another elevator down from the 80th floor first aid station when this second car's weakened cables snapped, sending Oliver and her elevator on a 1,000-foot plunge.

Fortunately, the reports of Oliver's survival had not been exaggerated, nor were the accounts of her remarkable experiences during the plane's initial impact, its resulting explosion and fire, and the 1,000-foot free fall into the elevator pit.

An often-asked question is, 'Has there even been a case where all elevator ropes were severed, causing an elevator to fall?' The plane crash into the Empire State Building is the only such occurrence. This final report provides an accurate accounting of one of the most unusual accidents to ever occur in elevator and aircraft history.

Coincidentally, just two weeks after the 50th anniversary of the B-25 crash, another accident occurred at the Empire State Building. Though far less severe, this most recent incident may be of greater concern to the elevator industry, for reasons behind the elevator crash of September 12, 1995 are still unclear. There were no fatalities, but four occupants slammed into the car ceiling -- receiving head, neck and back injuries when their elevator missed its 80th floor stop and crashed into the top of the shaft. Investigations into the accident are underway, and details pertinent to the elevator industry will be reported by ELEVATOR WORLD

- William Roberts
Elevator World, March 1996

From the official site of the Empire State Building:
http://www.esbnyc.com/tourism/tourism_facts_esbnews_mar1996.cfm?CFID=14220&CFTOKEN=40845

Governments have always lied to the people, this will never change.

This type of video is the reason I love living in this country and proudly serve in its military. Yes, the whole video made me completely irate at the makers of it, but at least they could film it and post it. Do you think that they could have ever done that in Russia? Syria? how about Korea? Having been to all 3 I can definitely say that it wouldn't have went over so well there and they would no longer be alive and their video would not be somewhere the whole country could view it.

Beyond this, be informed. When you see something like this understand that it is a scare tactic to lure people in that wont research that our government sucks we know it sucks, but all in all it is not as bad as the Michael Moore types make it out to be.

So to all the hard core liberals out there, I do think your completely wrong about a lot of stuff, but raise your voices, shout out how bad you think things are, and I will gladly defend your right to do so.

Right on LUSTYTWO....I am AMAZED how many people have their heads in the sand about the continual erosions of our freedoms! The really funny thing is that I have ALWAYS considered myself a pretty hard core fiscal, social, and constitutional conservative but when I tell others of my fears I'm labeled some sort of freak liberal because I won't follow this administration blindly into the HUGE mess we are in now. The Christian Right has highjacked our country and will not stop until we are no better than the Taliban...i.e. everything that doesn't follow their interpretation of the Bible will be outlawed whether it's abortion, freedom of speech, or yes, swinging. Anyone out there seen "V For Vendetta"? Pretty scary when you watch it and compare some of the things going on in our country and the world today. The original comic that it's based on was written quite a few years ago. Do I love this country? HELL YES? Do I believe ONE thing this administration tells us? HELL NO!
Evil

The thing you have to keep in mind about all the people that blame this administration for this whole mess, is that it has not just been this one. Bush senior and Clinton both added to this as well. As far as having my head buried in the sand, maybe I do. But when I was in Iraq last year and was REPEATEDLY thanked by the general Iraqi populous for all we are doing for them and saw them receiving medical care that they would never have dreamed of before...that made me proud that even if there were false pretenses to the war, we were doing a good thing for them. And as a father show of their support of trying to make a better lives for themselves, during the election they had an over 90% voter turnout for their general elections! When was the last time we did that here in America? Just a couple more cents from me

I did a google search and found a few things regarding a plane flying into the Empire State building.

Here's a link to one of the stories...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92525&page=1

I guess I should say something about the 911 tradgedy since that is what got this all started. I feel that those responsible should be gone after, and dealt with. But has the war in Iraq helped us to do this? We have little support around the world for what we have done in Iraq, and have given the terrorist more reason to gain support for their cause. Where is Osama Bin Laden? Do you think we might have drained our resourses to fight and protect ourselves against the real terrorist by our misguided and misjudged envolvement in Iraq?

Well, I watched the video and all I can say is that it does ask some very interesting questions. Most of which they provide "proof" for. I'm not saying that I believe all of the video, but I do question some of the findings and the incredible secrecy OUR government has placed before the American people concerning this event. I have served in the Armed Forces and continue to work in government affiliation, and I also know first hand that all you see is not all that happens. You be the judge.

actually while Clinton was busy "lieing", the very people that did this to us were making there plans un-oppssed!!!!! but while were on the subject of Bill lieing, and people dieing, maybe we can talk about Vince Foster?
wake up people!

I have also tried to avoid posting but just can't refuse. First of all making some conspiracy theory that the government allowed the tragedy in New York is not only cruel to the families but a complete bunch of crap. This is like the Quote Documentary UNquote Michael Morre filmed. Most of it was taking the facts and misrepresenting them to support his agenda.

As for the Clinton years saying he lied but nobody died is pure crap. During his term the bodies of American servicement were dragged thru the streets of Rawanda, more died in Bosnia and doesn't it seem convenient we got into Bosnia just about the time Monica came forward. Not only that but during his term the country of Sudan offered to hand over a certain terrorist Bin Laden for previous attempts to blow up the trade center buildings. What was Clinton's response? Naw let him go.

Also some other food for thought. Where would we have been had France not decided their new freedom should be shared by other countries? WE would still belong to England. That is what was being attempted in Viet Nam and is going on in Iraq. The problem with Viet Nam is the military was not allowed to do their job like in Desert Shield. We were not allowed to bomb them into submission. Oh an don't forget that we were only allowed to fly bomb runs over a select pattern. The civilian leaders who knew nothing of how to fight a war made the decisions and prevented the military to be successful. We were successful in Desert Storm because nobody wanted to repeat Viet Nam mistakes and we let them have it.

I would also point out as someone in an earlier post did, the Iraqi people turned out in larger numbers than we do in this country. ANd they do this not under the hassle of having to take off work or fighting traffic. They were threatened with death and harm to their families. They face conditions we can imagine and yet felt it important to risk and vote for their freedom.

Hwo can we get involved in Germany to get rid of Hitler and turn a blind eye to Saddam. Hell the man killed his own family not to mention the men women and children killed by the thousands. In Kuwait babies were taken from incubators and left on cold floors to die. Maybe we were given a bogus reason for going in but I still feel we are right to be there. I am glad France didn't have the problems helping us with freedom like we seem to with other countries. And although I will defend the right for folks to speak their minds and freedom of speech I will say don't you DARE call my 20 years of service or the service my son is making a waste. If you don't have whatever it takes to put yourself on the line just be glad there are those who do.

If everyone put the effort into coming up with solutions and solving the problems this country has that they do to running the current administration down we would be better off. Funny how shortly after september there was no dissention about us taking actions. And Bush did. I guess memories are short. I am not saying the administration is saintly but if you feel the Chistian coalition has taken over the country then take it back. Follow the Iraqi people and have more than 90 percent of the voters show up and vote.

Now I am sure I have offended some but I don't apologize for how I feel and what I feel is right. I just hope we can put our efforts into solving the problems we can. Also hope we can use this site for what it was intended, not a political forum but for having fun and swinging.

did you see the video of the cruel things the Iraqi's did under Saddam? They took a man to the edge of 3 story building roof and opened his mouth and clamped a pair of vice grips on his tongue threw him off the edge ....human rights? besides from gassing all the Kurds men women children and animals ...human rights? ....Hitler???

well now that the "pissed off at this BS" contingient has come out, and thank you all, maybe we can now move on from this subject. it is sometimes hard to ignore these things at times, we actually left one website due to the overwhelming amount of nutbag liberals present there, and i'm not pointing fingers at libs, thats your choice , but NUTBAGS!!!!! and there are a lot of them. it's funny how once again, this conversation has morphed into a debate over our current station in Iraq. we also have family over there and have lost friends, but we stay strong and support both our country and the people we have given the responsibility to protect it. we have always said that Iraq was never the "true" aim of what we are dooing there, but we believe that the people in charge of things, you know the profesionals who know more about whats going on around the world then we will ever know or want to know, do indeed have a reason and a long term goal. perhaps maybe one of those "pros" saw a little bit of our current situation with IRAN just over the horizon???? food for thought. but does anyone think that a nucular Iran would be a positive thing for the world? i'm sure someone will post that thinks it's all honky dory, but i think a forward post in the middle east such as Iraq just might come in handy in the months and yrs to come.
just a thought.........

Well nothing against anyone's post here everyone has a right to thier own views 7 MB file has to load first to play it

http://attacked911.tripod.com/

RockerCoupleOrlando ,

"I KNOW YOU ALL ARE FASCIST " !! Wow , a bold statement indeed . You appear very well informed , congratulations . I would say by your I know statement that you are a college graduate that was educated by the overwhelming population of liberal professors . I served over 20 years in the United States special forces . I served under three presidents who lead this great country and was with the Navy Seals Atlantic Division, special team assigned to the office of Commander and Chief . Clintons Bosnia deal , we are still there !! Do you know how many americans died in Bosnia since the so called conflict ended ? Do you have any idea of the cost to America in the past year for Bosnia ? I have been to Bosnia , I have comrades still serving there , you know shit about Bosnia !! At times in conflict we laid in cold wet fields for days wondering if there was a God !! When George Bush won the election over Al Gore and these world events broke loose , we knew there was a God !! God is still looking out for the country that frees people and holds out a hand . He put the right man at the right time in power . Ronald Reagan said : it isn't that liberals are ignorrant , it's just that they think they know so much that just isn't so :.... And as far as George Bush's decision's during his term : No great deed is ever done by faulterers who demand certainty !! Kudo's to Bush for standing firm under scrutiny . Years ago they wanted to run Winston Churchill out of England for his insane decisions . Today he is noted as the man who saved England and Europe from the Nazi's . The lesson from history should be you can not judge leaders actions by days , it appears to be decades before the results unfold . Reagans cold war and the nuclear arms race !! ....OUT !!

I am a member of the U.S. Military. As such I see alot of things such as that vidieo. I do sincerely hope he is wrong, but I am not nieve enough to entirely discount the information. I guess that a little Revolution now and then may not only be a good thing for a nation but if what this is suggesting even if not entirely accurate but if the jist is correct then a revolution may in fact be a pre-requisit to the retention of our liberties.

the biggest problem is our founding fathers never intended for every citizen to vote. they knew too many people would beleve any stupid story that came along. That is why they orgionaly had it as educated, liturate, property owners ( while im liturate my spelling is very poor sorry) should be voters. They also saw the need for a free press, however not an uncensered press. One statesman once said if we (meaning the press as he was a member of the 5th estate( or press core)) do not censor our selves soon the good people will demand it to be so. Now im no chemist however i do know that i can go to wallmart and come out with enough inocent items leagly purchased to make any number of bad items, and none will be a guns or black power. during the clinton years our orginization that keep us free,cia, fbi, military, bugets were cut so bad that we could not have gained any new intell on terrioust. Or did you forget that in those years we had a few embaseys blown up and our response was to blow up an aspern factory where the only casuality were inocent lives NOT THE GUILTY. In a perfect socity and world there would be no need for the cia, fbi military, police, ect. however we do not live in a perfect world. we never know who to trust how many of our friends turn on us manual norigia, fedial castro, even sadam housen ( yes we had reservation about him but at first we did support him). while our goverment is not perfect it is great. when the leadership of this nation changes good friends may find themselvs on the outs like the shaw of iran. and since that is and will be a big issue we must make sure we choose to support in this nation those who are the best. while we support others that may not live up to our standars in other nations or those this nation supports turn on us lets not turn our backs on those we hurt and clean up our mess. not bomb an asprin factory.

New Movie This Weekend

World Trade Center with Nicholas Cage

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0469641/

and view the trailer here

http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/wtc/medium.html

In the 40's an army aircore medium bomber crashed into the empire state building in heavy fog. I am pretty sure it was a B25 but I cant rememeber 100%. Had a b52 crashed into a building it would have been pretty catastrophic

All are correct in this is not the place for poltics or religion . I for one shall refrain from any further replies to such posts . I can't come to a mutual agreement in politics or religion with my wife of 26 years , so it puzzles me on why I would ever attempt it in a swinger forum . Just the heat of the moment I suppose !!

As for the last of the post : The senate just voted Thursday(yesterday) on making english the national language of the United States ! It passed on a 63-34 vote . Curious on the 34 who voted against it . Then it decided to call the mother tongue a common and unifying language . The FBI raided a farm house on a lead for Jimmy Hoffas remains . 31 years later and still searching !! So see ,, we can all relax knowing our government and it's agencies are working on the issues at hand . Sorry , just read it and had to laugh !!

Relationships , sex , and relaxing parties............I'll devote my time to these categories !!

Well said dclatinocouple.

Nuff' said I think.

even it was properly spelled, the word "vitriol"

You're seriously going to rant on grammer and type something like this in your post? I think you forgot an "if". Typing skills give no indication of intelligence, as I am sure you are educated, yet you committed a faux pax of your own. To try and say that certain political beliefs are a sign of ignorance is to do nothing but put a great big flashing sign pointing out your own. What hits me the most is immediately after 9/11, the entire country was adorned in red, white, and blue. Well, after awhile, that lost its "in style" luster. Now the true patriotic people of this country still fly those colors daily, while the rest of the fashion seekers have moved on to trying to blame Bush for everything wrong in the universe. Those of you who sit there trying to be keyboard commando's and chasing every internet conspiracy theory make me sick. You sit there, basking in your ignorant bliss, knowing nothing of what is really going on in the world, but believing whole heartedly that you are a subject matter expert. Honestly, what real, first hand knowledge do you have of current events? I'm not talking about what you saw on CNN last night. REAL first hand knowledge. Those of us who served and saw first hand the destruction caused by tyrants have first hand, eye witness knowledge. Now, of course I will be chastised I'm sure for this little rant, but that's ok. I can take it. I fought and bled and buried my brothers so you have the right to do so. What your blind eyes don't see is the fact that while we are abroad in Iraq and Afghanistan the terrorists are focusing their attention on our troops. Our TRAINED troops who volunteered to be put in harms way to defend America. Yes, I would love to see all the wars end. But you know, I would much rather the terrorists target our well trained military with their suicide attacks than to be reading front page news about car bombs in Nashville, or Utah, or Florida. You are blinded to the facts by your hatred of Bush. What happens when a liberal democrat gets elected next time around these problems still arise? You will either be a bandwagon revolutionary and chastise them as well, or you will simply say nothing except "at least a republican isn't in office". Unfortunately, my views are heartfelt and run very deep, and seeing the popular opinion on this site, I am positive there are no compatible couples to be found for us here. Say what you will, but I simply cannot spend my valuable time with those who make the deaths of my brothers insignificant. I will not be visiting here again.

First, nothing in my previous post even hinted at an attempt to intimidate. To interpret it as such is in itself, moronic. I am much too mature to go on a tangent about my military career. Simply ask and I will post my DD214 (if you in all of your brilliance even know what that is without searching for it on Google) and you will see my 6 years of military service, including parachuting into Iraq at the very start of the war March 26, 2003. It will also reflect my Purple Heart awarded for wounds sustained Sep. 3, 2003 during an RPG attack, and my subsequent medical discharge in Nov. of 2003. You are correct in saying that I didn't bleed for you, although I am surprised you admit that. You seem to me like the type of person whose ego could use that boost. I bled for every American to have the right to speak their mind, even if what they spew resembles the ignorant whining you put forth. It's your opinion. I, among others, only put our lives on the line for you to be able to have one. Your "decade of observation" no doubt is soley based on blogs and CNN reports. It definitely was not from within the service, unless you yourself was one of the examples you used as sitting behind a desk (which, on a side note, is just as honorable as serving on the front lines. At least you have the guts to stand up and defend the country in your own way). What have you done for this country, don? Besides sitting around in MD complaining about how Kerry should have won and thinking you have all the answers? I'm guessing.... NOTHING. You haven't the intestinal fortitude to stand up for this country, or even make an effort to correct any of your perceived wrong doing. The fact that you sit there and insult our great military makes you look like the most eloquent idiot most have ever seen. Your ignorance is obviously bliss, as you appear to be quite happy living with untruths. Luckily for you, stupidity isn't terminal. It takes much more than being well spoken to be able to call yourself intelligent. You sound quite literate, just not very intelligent. But hey, that's just my opinion. I thank all the soldiers who have ever fought and died so I could actually have one. I know, I know, you don't care about that because you are so very much better than those who actually join our military and are more concerned with things that are petty to you (duty, honor, courage, selfless service, loyalty, etc.) than they are with trying simply to get rich and whining about how badly our government is running. I see that you are a single man. Do me one favor: Don't reproduce. We have enough idiots running around playing armchair politician and thinking they are truly the cream of the crop, when in reality, they are simply blind lemmings (to use your term) following one BS conspiracy after another. I don't believe you are an enemy of the state at all. Idiot of the village? Likely, but not the enemy. Honestly, I don't really care what you believe. The fact that you live so far away from me and, thankfully, are happily in your own "village" gives me enough pleasure to live my life and thank God there aren't too many more like you.

Don, let me put this as quick and as simple as possible for you. If you think we are just serving to live off the poor taxpayers, please by all means become a non-taxpayer. My suggestion is this, if you hate us and this country so much, leave, you will not be missed.

To the rest of you with valid points that dont include a attack on the character of the average person, sorry if this offends you.

To those that serve along side me, thank you. You are all my brothers.

Well here i go again................
i really wanted to get away from this but people like Sir Don just keep makeing themselves itrratiting.
like Funcouple i would prefer to talk about something related to the subject of this site however i find it near immpossable to stand back and listen to trash spewed out of someones mouth about our men in uniform, or our country as a whole.
you talk about a hypocrite! you point figers and question our military and government, yet you admittingly collected a check while sitting on your ass creating software that they would in turn use to do there evil deeds!
you got balls bud, and i can say with a good degree of confidence you will be playing with them all alone, cause you sure arn't making many friends here!

I am so glad that you know that language! I am proud of you! Now if you can just perfect writing in German as well....YOU CAN GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE COUNTRY YOU AGING LIBERAL HIPPY PIECE OF SHIT!!!

Oh, and have a nice day

HAHAHAHA!!! So now you have ridden with policemen too?!?! You have got to be more full of shit than anyone I have ever met! You should change your name to Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery! Yeah, I am sure you have done it all and seen it all, 007. You are off for the weekend for what? Ohhhh, you must be going to some far off land to save them from the imperialistic United States! Your pure, unadulterated ignorance will not even allow you to realize that you are the only one defending yourself with your oh so witty comebacks. I think I more than hit the target... several times, as well as my fellow posters. You still cannot answer my questions, nor have you denied your spineless condition. I guess you have to call some of your friends to ask for advice on more comebacks like "if I wanted shit from you I would squeeze your head" or "shut up, you poo poo heads" (about the same level for you). If ascending the evolutionary ladder entails losing coherant thought and becoming a moron like yourself, I will stay descended. Maybe in all your ascension you can solve world hunger and cancer, too. Wait... I bet you already did! You are the easiest of targets, and I can play with your ignorant little brain all day long. You are almost not even a challenge because you keep making more and more light of your lack of intelligence. Oh well. I will keep on laughing at the way you try to think up new ways to ATTEMPT to sound educated, only to be dashed by the average, everyday likes of me!

I don't want to talk about this crap any longer, either. This site, I believe was about swinging not bouot politics so lets get back to the fun, fantasy and sex.

I will however make a parting statement to those who believe that the government would not do anything so unthinkable as 911. A line from the Godfather comes to mind. It was when Mike came back from Italy and stopped Kate on the street and she made the commennt that the government doesn't have people killed and Mike say "Now who's being Niave" There are 2 things that keep carnage in check... Intelligence(real intelligence) and a sence of morals.. Governments have no morals and intelligence is a word meaning information we have obtained.

So let the government do their thing and let us do ours... We will not stop them until we realize that Enron was politically connected and General Dynamics charges us too damned much and 48% of the people support 52% of the people (called government..all levels)... We the people are as a group pretty damned stupid. If you think you don't fit that group, just think about what you believe about government.... None of what you hear and only 50% of what you see is a good rule to remember. Tasteful nudity would be acceptable to both this site and to me... nothing hidden... and BTW a government that is against sex should order their own abortion retroactively...

Lets do some serious thoughts here.... sex fun and fantasy......

OOOPS, i misspelled DOUBT! i'm sure i'm gonne hear all about it!

Ok, now that I have stopped laughing... you are the first person I ever ran into that actually admitted to being a journalist. You call that a step up? You were better off "living your worthless existance off of poor tax payers money". What I found funny was that you stated that EVERYONE who worked for the government, whether in uniform or not, was a parasite. Then you backtrack and say you only worked for the parasites. It's obviously hard to keep up with your own bullshit when you spew so much of it. Yet again, you opened yourself up to being an easy target. Being that you "have been attached for over a decade" yet list yourself as single leads me to believe you not only failed as a contributing member of society, but also as a mate for some unfortunate woman who lived more than 10 years hearing your pathetic verbal vomit. Unfortunately, you berate several people on here for not reading, yet you fail to read my posts closely apparently. I said numerous times that I don't claim to be a hero, nor do I wish to be regarded as one. Your narrow mind and dim wits only allow you to keep trying to use that as an insult, when in fact, it does the exact thing I adore from you: you succeed in making yourself look quite ignorant. Your jealousy of those who have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and volunteer for our country is almost pathetic. It would be in anyone but yourself. With you, my "seen it all, done it all", friend, it is simply amusing. I am not happy about any lives lost in combat, partially because it only gives ammunition to lowly journalists (like yourself) to put a negative spin on and try to blame the U.S. instead of the fanatics who are really responsible. You speak as if you have any sort of real knowledge, when in fact, you have only the opinion of a whining, disgruntled worker who found that even through his "higher education", he couldn't make the cut to move up the ladder in a cushy DoD job so he quit and got a job scribbling for a rag. You so eloquently express your ignorance over and over. How could I possibly leave? To see you get in a huff and try to bring something actually intelligent to the table is simply too much to leave behind. I do so enjoy toying with your intelligence (or lack thereof) that as long as you keep making yourself such an easy target, I shall continue to come and point out the obvious lack of intellect you possess. Thank you for this amusing evening, and I'm sure you will post something oh so intelligent to try to knock me down a few rungs. Good luck! I will see you tomorrow!

Obviously Don, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CANNOT READ!!! YOU DON"T KNOW WHEN TO QUIT, WITH THE BS. GET A LIFE AND SHUT THE F>>>> UP. TAKE IT OUTSIDE> IF YOU WERE HERE I"D LIKE THAT...... YOU ARE A LIMP WIT JACKASS WHO btw CLAIMS TO BE A WRITER OR JOURNALIST..... WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS FORUM IS ABOUT? WHERE DO YOU GET OFF TALKING TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU DO? WHEN THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE? AND FINALLY ....WHY DO YOU THINK YOU ARE SO MUCH BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE?

PLEASE, DON'T TRY TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, THEY ARE SIMPLY FOR YOUR REFLECTION AND SELF EXAMINATION, IF YOU THINK YOU MIGHT NEED ANY. HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT YOUR AN ASS BEFORE YOU BELIEVE... YOU ARE NOT MAKING FRIENDS HERE.... GET A LIFE....

I've read your profile and I think that you may find what you're looking for somewhere, so please go there and find it. Sex is easy, you say, so why are you here in the first place. Go to the college campus' and find someone with a 4.0 GPA and enjoy the conversation and maybe the sex that is so easy to find. You profile so eloquently put it; "...A moderately intelligent carbon-based bi-ped..." "... prefer intelligent people with whom I can do more than just fuck..."..."...but it's kind of cheesy to fuck someone you despise, just to get laid, no?..."... "...Hopefully, if you got this far, you know who you're dealing with here. I'm not as disagreeable as I may sound, but I'm also not a kissup like so many of the single guys here, who apparently are so hard up to get laid that they will say anything, and humiliate themselves in almost any way, just to see pink. Well, that ain't me, folks. I know the majority culture in swingworld, but I don't have to play along, because sex is an easy thing to find. (The rest of you poor guys, it's there, trust me......." Yes I've taken this from your profile and yes there are other things there but this is the jist of your message. and anyone can read it...

You spew's forth dirt... BTW just to make sure you know the context of "spew's" the dictionary defines it as; "To vomit or otherwise cast out through the mouth." but in this case, your fingers are your mouth. OH, and if you wish to correct my spelling or grammar, please do so and mail your grade to me. Mailing address will not be forthcomming since I really don't think your grade would mean anything because I've read your writtings. Enough of your diatribe and enough of mine... Take it to your intelligent bathroom and cogitate on that... BTW Cogitation is the 15th level of masturbation.

On July 28, 1945, an Army Air Force B-25 crashed into the Building between the 79th and 80th floors. Fourteen people died. Damage to the Building was $1 million but the structural integrity of the Building was not affected. There are several reasons the twin towers "collapsed" and the Empire State Building was left intact in 1945. Both WTC towers entire support was the exterior steel -- the ESB is built into bedrock, is constructed of steel, limestone, brick, marble and has an extensive system of steel and concrete interior support beams. The B-25 was a smaller plane, carried less fuel and was nearing its destination, so was low on fuel. If a big plane hit ESB, the building not fall down, but undoubtedly there would be damage and loss of lives -- just another unimaginable thought....There was only one book ever written about this incident: "The Sky is Falling" by Arthur Weingarten, bit it is out of print. You may check the 7/29/45 archives for The New York Times and the Associated Press for more information. I LOOKED THIS UP ON THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING WEB SITE

While it is true that 911 had nothing to do with Iraq , the leadership in Iraq which was put into power by the United States had to be taken down . Sorry to say but the USA will occupie Iraq for a long time and the troops will remain . Yes , it is all about the oil ! The destruction of the twin towers would collapse the economy of the United States and impact world trade , or so it was the belief of Bin Laden and Al Queda . The true component to the USA economy is petroleum , take a major portion of it away and you will have a total collapse . Iraq was nothing more than global positioning . Our ships can sit in the persian gulf , our missle defense is positioned for strikes with in minutes . We all know the United Nations had been corrupt and a majority of our so called allies were on the take , rendering it a useless organization . Iran today has nuclear capability , the Russians had a 3 mile convoy of tractor trailers transporting whatever out of Iraq before we entered for the take over. Our eye had been more on Iran hoping that the young population which is approx. 80% of Iran would uprise against its leadership . The younger generation of Iran admires the western freedoms and democracy that we have . The problem is drugs in Iran. You can walk on any corner and buy crystal meth , heroin and just about anything you want as easily as walking in a store in the USA and buying a six pack of beer . Keep the majority stoned and quiet seems to be the agenda of the leading regime , who are known for thier previous terrorist acts . Saudi Arabia fears a nuclear attack on thier oil fields which would render the oil in the ground useless ! Saudi Arabia fears Iran !! So the telling tale has been that American intelligence had failed , the British intelligence was also wrong , along with Russian intelligence even though Putnam for warned Bush of the situation being reported to him . The biggest surprise is Israeli intelligence , which by the way is the best in the region if not the world ......they were wrong too !! Saudi oil fields useless and our economy collapses . Rolling blackouts , Americans freezing to death in the winter , industries shutting down , loss of jobs ,....it goes on and on !! The looting of New Orleans would look like a kid robbing a candy store in comparison . The United States has great men in think tanks and it is a nation prepared to protect our way of life no matter the cost . ............The government can not expose everything . The 911 highjacked plane that had the heroic passengers take over was actually shot down by the airforce by taking off the tail..........same with Payne Stewarts plane..............or do you think we got lucky and they just crashed in an unpopulated area . People like Don Jaun couldn't begin to understand the loss of a few to save the lives of thousands . Unfortunately there are some really evil people in this world and thearapy just isn't an option ........