In many of the men's profiles here I've seen them be interested in Gay Females (who'd presumably not be interested in men) but not Trans Females (who'd presumably be interested in men) be they pre- or post-op.
As a straight female this confuses me; if one is here for potential sex and interested primarily in the people who have an interest in them AND have the body to perform sex, what's the hangup? Why prefer a person whose genitals may interest you but whose mind doesn't want you?
As a straight female this confuses me; if one is here for potential sex and interested primarily in the people who have an interest in them AND have the body to perform sex, what's the hangup? Why prefer a person whose genitals may interest you but whose mind doesn't want you?
I think its just the fantasy of having 2 females
Cuz they're such total studs they could even turn a gay woman straight? 
Talking about single male profiles, yes? In that case, I don't think it has anything to do with having two women, unless they really think she'll be bringing her girlfriend with. The answer for single guys, I think, is simple. I believe, in the case of saying lesbians are OK, it's just a case of covering all bases, so as not to miss out on any female. And maybe, just maybe, some gay girl might get a notion to try out a guy. Unless they think that their profile pics are so overwhelmingly hot that they actually will turn a lesbian straight, it's likely not a real expectation, just a shot in the dark to make sure they don't miss any possibility.
And as for trans females, they want to have sex with women, not men. Most men have an extreme personal homophobia (Before someone jumps on me for that, note that I said most, not all). By personal homophobia I mean they might not have any kind of a problem at all with gay men (although many guys do also have that), but the idea of themselves having sex with a man is disgusting. If pre-op, they figure "she" damned sure is a man, since "she" still has a cock. And they likely also see a post-op trans female as somehow still being a man. Or maybe, in the case of post-op they just figure that she isn't likely to actually look very female despite having a vagina and breasts. After all, sexual attraction does start out on a visual level, and some post-op trans females do have masculine looking bodies and faces, it's mostly a bone structure thing.
I've also noticed that very few profiles, whether male, couple, or female, say OK for either trans male or trans female, whether pre or post op. I think most people are uncomfortable with the idea of people who are changing or have changed their sex. So maybe the reason single males aren't interested is just that almost nobody is interested. ~ Terry
And as for trans females, they want to have sex with women, not men. Most men have an extreme personal homophobia (Before someone jumps on me for that, note that I said most, not all). By personal homophobia I mean they might not have any kind of a problem at all with gay men (although many guys do also have that), but the idea of themselves having sex with a man is disgusting. If pre-op, they figure "she" damned sure is a man, since "she" still has a cock. And they likely also see a post-op trans female as somehow still being a man. Or maybe, in the case of post-op they just figure that she isn't likely to actually look very female despite having a vagina and breasts. After all, sexual attraction does start out on a visual level, and some post-op trans females do have masculine looking bodies and faces, it's mostly a bone structure thing.
I've also noticed that very few profiles, whether male, couple, or female, say OK for either trans male or trans female, whether pre or post op. I think most people are uncomfortable with the idea of people who are changing or have changed their sex. So maybe the reason single males aren't interested is just that almost nobody is interested. ~ Terry
I would think that with a gay woman in many cases she will look like a woman has a pussy and tits and therefore a guy wants it. But if the woman is a trans pre op the fact she still has a pussy is not enough to get past e fact that she may not have fits anymore and other than a pussy she would look just like a guy and may have a fear of being that of as gay if they are seen in public. So gay guy homophobia comes in to play just like I wouldn't be surprised to learn the male in many couples are bi and the couple will do guy on guy play won't post that in their profile because they fear being pushed away.
I see there's ignorance afoot here. The easiest topic is to rebut the idea that trans women retain masculine looks; I present you this Miss Universe contestant.
You may view and judge her body in this translated article.
To the person who suggested my opinions and profile make me appear to be trans, that message said a lot more about you than it ever could about me.
You may view and judge her body in this translated article.
To the person who suggested my opinions and profile make me appear to be trans, that message said a lot more about you than it ever could about me.
I've met some trans=gender folks in my life and none of them looked even remotely like CHEFFETTE's Miss Universe contestant. The issue I had with them had less to do with their looks than it did their personality. To say they were confused would be generous. Obviously, not all trans-gender folks are that way, and I'm sure there are some that have made the transformation very well, I just haven't met them. While I wouldn't seek out a lifestyle experience with a trans-gender I honestly couldn't say how I'd react to an unexpected encounter at, say, a very uninhibited and active swing party. I guess it would start with whatever level of physical attraction there might or might not be and then move on to personality. I've never even seen a picture of post-operative transformed genitalia so have no idea how it would compare to a natural female's. Just the fact of being trans-gender alone, that at one time she'd been a he, probably wouldn't dissuade me from having sex with her if she was attractive both physically and personally. It hasn't happened yet so I'm just guessing here.
SEXPERIMENTORS wrote:For context, is this the male or female half of the couple posting?
I've met some trans=gender folks in my life and none of them looked even remotely like CHEFFETTE's Miss Universe contestant. The issue I had with them had less to do with their looks than it did their personality. To say they were confused would be generous. Obviously, not all trans-gender folks are that way, and I'm sure there are some that have made the transformation very well, I just haven't met them. While I wouldn't seek out a lifestyle experience with a trans-gender I honestly couldn't say how I'd react to an unexpected encounter at, say, a very uninhibited and active swing party. I guess it would start with whatever level of physical attraction there might or might not be and then move on to personality. I've never even seen a picture of post-operative transformed genitalia so have no idea how it would compare to a natural female's. Just the fact of being trans-gender alone, that at one time she'd been a he, probably wouldn't dissuade me from having sex with her if she was attractive both physically and personally. It hasn't happened yet so I'm just guessing here.
male
I never said post trans woman retained masculine looks. I said SOME can (don't claim they don't, I've seen some with that problem, just like I've seen those who have really pretty feminine looks), and that some men might expect that they all would. Someone needs to read things a bit more carefully to see the difference between what I say I believe and what I say I think other people might believe.
And for Sexperimenters, I have met trans females who, while of course they didn't look "like" Jenna Talackova, (Chefette's posted picture), they were just as pretty. And although I've never seen trans female genitals, I'd be surprised if, with the advanced state of plastic surgery, the vagina of a trans female would look much different from that of a born female.
For Thegman, the penis and the clitoris are the same thing to start. Everyone starts out, in a way, female. Unless a specific event occurs, the fetus stays female. The X chromosome in a male causes changes that result in the development of the nascent gonads into testes, instead of developing into ovaries, as they would have if nothing had happened. Then hormones from the gonads (either testes or ovaries) act on other developing tissue, causing the development of either a clitoris or a penis (from the same tissue) and either vaginal lips or a scrotal sack (from the same tissues). Since what would have been a clitoris can end up as a penis because of hormones, it isn't surprising that the introduction of extra testosterone into a female could cause a clitoris to grow larger. ~ Terry
And for Sexperimenters, I have met trans females who, while of course they didn't look "like" Jenna Talackova, (Chefette's posted picture), they were just as pretty. And although I've never seen trans female genitals, I'd be surprised if, with the advanced state of plastic surgery, the vagina of a trans female would look much different from that of a born female.
For Thegman, the penis and the clitoris are the same thing to start. Everyone starts out, in a way, female. Unless a specific event occurs, the fetus stays female. The X chromosome in a male causes changes that result in the development of the nascent gonads into testes, instead of developing into ovaries, as they would have if nothing had happened. Then hormones from the gonads (either testes or ovaries) act on other developing tissue, causing the development of either a clitoris or a penis (from the same tissue) and either vaginal lips or a scrotal sack (from the same tissues). Since what would have been a clitoris can end up as a penis because of hormones, it isn't surprising that the introduction of extra testosterone into a female could cause a clitoris to grow larger. ~ Terry
CHEFFETTE wrote:
In many of the men's profiles here I've seen them be interested in Gay Females (who'd presumably not be interested in men) but not Trans Females (who'd presumably be interested in men) be they pre- or post-op.
As a straight female this confuses me; if one is here for potential sex and interested primarily in the people who have an interest in them AND have the body to perform sex, what's the hangup? Why prefer a person whose genitals may interest you but whose mind doesn't want you?
ok.. gonna give you the non politically correct but straight up answer to your conundrum.
As a former single guy.. and now happily married guy.. I have seen multiple sides of this. So as a single guy... you are a face in the crowd.. one of very many that needs to look for an angle to distinguish yourself from the rest.
There are a couple things that come into play here.. the ego that thinks.. heck if these gay women just had a real man they would realize what they are missing.. the desired ego boost of converting the gay female to liking guys cause he was just so good. This is unrealistic but goes though the mind as one of the uber notches on the bedpost.
Then the more subtle thought. If you can connect with a gay woman.. you can both score on single bi-curious females.. the male there to help them feel comfortable and not feel gay... and both can find and explore that niche market.
Transsexual male to female is pretty darned close.. but when you get right down to it is not quite the same as a natural female. It looks different and reacts differently. The parts are close but not the same when you get right down to it. Add to that the thoughts in the back of your mind that this person is really a dude... and if not a bi-curious male.. it tends to make the desire wilt away.
Hate mail if you want.. just trying to give an honest assessment of your question.
Now the question that I have always had.. is why do gay men.. like to watch men.. who look like women in shows? That one has always eluded me. The gay clubs have some great female impersonators.. but why would gay men want to watch that? Posed that question to a gay friend once and never really got an answer.
My bet is that they're just hitting all the "yes" buttons on the female side without thinking. I may just be over thinking that though.
I'm not surprised to see mentions of homophobia and haste in filling out the profile as possible reasons; I hadn't thought of the male ego being so driven as to ignore disinterest from gay women. Yet that ego can't be reasoned w/ when the interested person's equipment matches the imagined ideal but the original birth certificate does not, even when reproduction is not on the table.
As Terry pointed out above, every blastocyst starts out female and slightly less than half mutate into males as they become fetuses.
AHARLEYCPL, not only is hate mail unwarranted, I'm personally pleased this discussion, for all its potential thorns, hasn't disintegrated into discriminatory ugliness like it would on some sites where the membership is more mainstream; I think it's b/c swingers already think outside the societal norms when it comes to expressing sexuality and have more of a 'live and let live if no one gets hurt' mentality. Being a swinger isn't about thoughtless sex, it's about even more thoughtful sex and this discussion shows that.
As Terry pointed out above, every blastocyst starts out female and slightly less than half mutate into males as they become fetuses.
AHARLEYCPL, not only is hate mail unwarranted, I'm personally pleased this discussion, for all its potential thorns, hasn't disintegrated into discriminatory ugliness like it would on some sites where the membership is more mainstream; I think it's b/c swingers already think outside the societal norms when it comes to expressing sexuality and have more of a 'live and let live if no one gets hurt' mentality. Being a swinger isn't about thoughtless sex, it's about even more thoughtful sex and this discussion shows that.
In answer to AHARLEYCPL's question about gay men liking drag shows, a gay friend once told me there are two reasons. The hilarious caricature of over the top female personalities and the clothes.
MAPARTY wrote:I give a shit b/c hypocrites aren't the most trustworthy people in my experience. But my opinions don't inform your choices (nor yours mine) so you don't have to give a shit if you don't care to. As you can see my shit-giving has led to an interesting discussion (or at least interesting to shoe who chose to participate in it) and isn't the examined life more interesting?
My question is... why do people give a shit?
Who cares if they say "yay" or "nay" to gays, trans-gender or straight?
It's THEIR profile, whether hastily done or not.
Who gives a shit?
Instead of saying this is natural. No one is natural. The way they look at life is obscure at best. Sex is desire on this site. Are there people who would be interested. You bet ya. They are out there. You are not the first or last to have your feelings. However, no one is going to tell you all their desires online. Maybe a glimpse if anything comes from the profile questions.
I am sure there are many whom feel and share your same wants and desires. Just might take you some time. I heard from someone somewhere....if you build it they will come!
Build who you are and it will happen. No matter if you are Straight, Gay, Bisexual or, Trans before,after of wanna be's. If I have forgotten any fold of named people...after all a name is really gossip and, what you are is what you want to be.
I am sure there are many whom feel and share your same wants and desires. Just might take you some time. I heard from someone somewhere....if you build it they will come!
Build who you are and it will happen. No matter if you are Straight, Gay, Bisexual or, Trans before,after of wanna be's. If I have forgotten any fold of named people...after all a name is really gossip and, what you are is what you want to be.
Probably just tho whole rediculous homophobic thing. Closed minded people cannot accept change and will not accept someone for who the person truly is. Personally I say if we find each other attractive and we both want to.... bring it on!!!