What are everyones thoughts on spouses in a semi open relationship, meaning we have set ground rules on what we can and can't do when were not together (say actual intercourse). Suppose one of the indivduals involved crosses that line, and to make up for the indiscretion the guilty party "allows" the other a "free" night to do the same? Is this a disaster waiting to happen? Will the rules then just be thrown out the window? Or is it something that can be dealt with as a one time only thing? I need some advice, so all responses would be helpful. Thanks.
HMMM I would say it depends on the couple. We personally came up with some rules and the major one was to be fair to each other. The ole what is good for the goose is good for the gander type thing. If there was a breaking of the rules first we ask why it happened. Then we evaluate if the rule needs to go away or not. We also then discuss if the one who abided by the rule wants a kitchen pass from the rule for a night and then back to sticking to the rule.
Hope that makes sense. Well in one case we decided to eliminate the rule and continue. In another case, the person who stuck to the rules decided to have a free night and yet another case a rule was not stuck to and the one who stuck to it decided it was not necessary to break the rule too.
The whole part of this is that we both discussed and were open about reasons it happened and forgive and move on. We also work out and keep an open mind about the rules. The key thing is to share and if possible not set in absolutes.
Hope this all makes sense and gives the answer to the question asked.
Hope that makes sense. Well in one case we decided to eliminate the rule and continue. In another case, the person who stuck to the rules decided to have a free night and yet another case a rule was not stuck to and the one who stuck to it decided it was not necessary to break the rule too.
The whole part of this is that we both discussed and were open about reasons it happened and forgive and move on. We also work out and keep an open mind about the rules. The key thing is to share and if possible not set in absolutes.
Hope this all makes sense and gives the answer to the question asked.
Rules, Rules, Rules. What's up with that! This is the lifestyle, not the Gestapo. Did I spell that right? LOL!
Are you serious?
If it sounds like a good topic for The Jerry Springer Show...
People like that are not good "swingers" for lack of a better term. They are foolishly wagering their relationships to be self indulgant (sp?). The Lifestyle is about TRUST. It is about HONESTY. and believe it or not, supreme COMMITTMENT. I dont even really see how your situation has anything to do with swinging. The rules were set. The rules were broken. It is simply CHEATING.
Anyone who would enter in to a committed relationship, whatever type it is, only to break the rules that you two have agreed on as a couple is selfish in my book. This means you had NO respect for your partner. NO respect for thier feelings. And absolutely NO respect for the relationship. So why bother!?
Cheating is NOT a tennis ball to be whacked back and forth between courts, or awarded as some kind of concellation prize to the victim when one is caught. I think that behavior is just sick.
But thats just my little tiny .02 cents.
Luvbugs! (mR.)
:s
If it sounds like a good topic for The Jerry Springer Show...
People like that are not good "swingers" for lack of a better term. They are foolishly wagering their relationships to be self indulgant (sp?). The Lifestyle is about TRUST. It is about HONESTY. and believe it or not, supreme COMMITTMENT. I dont even really see how your situation has anything to do with swinging. The rules were set. The rules were broken. It is simply CHEATING.
Anyone who would enter in to a committed relationship, whatever type it is, only to break the rules that you two have agreed on as a couple is selfish in my book. This means you had NO respect for your partner. NO respect for thier feelings. And absolutely NO respect for the relationship. So why bother!?
Cheating is NOT a tennis ball to be whacked back and forth between courts, or awarded as some kind of concellation prize to the victim when one is caught. I think that behavior is just sick.
But thats just my little tiny .02 cents.
Luvbugs! (mR.)
:s
Rules are a funny thing in this respect. We believe that the "kharma" is more important than the rules are. The only real firm rule we ever had is that we feel it important for all parties meet first before any play ever takes place. No room for doubt or cheating there. Personally I believe that the rules should not be set in stone. Interaction with different people can always potentially bring about the opportunities or desire to try different things that might not fit into one's "normal" play. If that should arise it is tough to stop in the middle of playtime to consult the rule books and see how-many-yard penalty it will be. I also don't agree with the "sauce for the goose" idea, as what works in one instance may never be duplicated again in terms of chemistry, or Kharma if you will......
It is important to have some boundries of course, and the rules when made shouldn't be broken, at the risk of breaking trust. But trust is more important in the long run than rules.
Our number 2 rule, after "everyone meets first", is "Relax and have fun...enjoy something different. Try it all, and sort out what you don't like later...."
It is important to have some boundries of course, and the rules when made shouldn't be broken, at the risk of breaking trust. But trust is more important in the long run than rules.
Our number 2 rule, after "everyone meets first", is "Relax and have fun...enjoy something different. Try it all, and sort out what you don't like later...."
COOL! CMDUO
Rules between partners are important when swinging, but I think some people miss the point. Rules are very dependant on the people involved. Some people make rules that they use to stay within their own or their partners comfort zones. Others make rules because there are jealousy issues that they don't feel strong enough to over come. What ever the reasoning behind the rules it's up to the couple to decide if they are written in stone or if they can be dependant on the situation. Also if people are consuming drinks with swinging you might find certain rules more likely to be broken.
If the couple is ok with the situation then it's confusing to me how some people can feel they are so high and mighty to pass moral judgements against those people. We are all here to be swinging and to enjoy pushing the boundries that society has stated that certain activities should only be done between a woman and man which are married..
My vote is that if both partners are ok with what happen Then I don't see why anyone else should be concerned.
If the couple is ok with the situation then it's confusing to me how some people can feel they are so high and mighty to pass moral judgements against those people. We are all here to be swinging and to enjoy pushing the boundries that society has stated that certain activities should only be done between a woman and man which are married..
My vote is that if both partners are ok with what happen Then I don't see why anyone else should be concerned.
Breaking the rules IS cheating!
It does not matter how much you have had to drink. In fact, that is a diplorable excuse for breaking the trust of your mate. If you are aware that alchohol impairs your judgement, do not put yourself in situations where you are drinking excessively. That is a choice you can make to avoid trouble, so using "I was drunk" as an excuse would never fly with either of us.
Rules can be flexible, yes. However, it is the responsibility of the people involved to openly and honestly communicate their respective feelings to one another, so that no rules are ever bent. If your partner makes it known to you that there are certain things that are not permitted, you should not do them under any circumstances. Whether you agree at that moment is completely irrelevant (sp?). The fact remains; this is what was agreed upon by you BOTH, so in all fairness, the other person should be consulted if the arrangement is to change. Period. Anything else is purely selfish, and you should not be married to anyone if that is the attitude that you have.
Couples establish boundaries that suit their situation, as someone pointed out. No one person in that couple should assume that those boundaries should be modified to suit their needs simply because they no are no longer convienent. Especially not without FIRST talking to the other person.
And lets be honest, SWINGING is not something that you can play games with. We have all seen how many relationships go south based on dishonesty. When you make the choice to swing with someone, you are really saying to the world that you are much more secure, mature, and honest about your feelings than most others. People who are not ready for this lifestyle tend to get in to these types of situations, and ruin their relationships. It makes us all look foolish, and is one more thing for the ultra conservative types to point a finger at by way of example to chime out "I told you so!" on sunday morning.
Luvbugs! (mR.)
It does not matter how much you have had to drink. In fact, that is a diplorable excuse for breaking the trust of your mate. If you are aware that alchohol impairs your judgement, do not put yourself in situations where you are drinking excessively. That is a choice you can make to avoid trouble, so using "I was drunk" as an excuse would never fly with either of us.
Rules can be flexible, yes. However, it is the responsibility of the people involved to openly and honestly communicate their respective feelings to one another, so that no rules are ever bent. If your partner makes it known to you that there are certain things that are not permitted, you should not do them under any circumstances. Whether you agree at that moment is completely irrelevant (sp?). The fact remains; this is what was agreed upon by you BOTH, so in all fairness, the other person should be consulted if the arrangement is to change. Period. Anything else is purely selfish, and you should not be married to anyone if that is the attitude that you have.
Couples establish boundaries that suit their situation, as someone pointed out. No one person in that couple should assume that those boundaries should be modified to suit their needs simply because they no are no longer convienent. Especially not without FIRST talking to the other person.
And lets be honest, SWINGING is not something that you can play games with. We have all seen how many relationships go south based on dishonesty. When you make the choice to swing with someone, you are really saying to the world that you are much more secure, mature, and honest about your feelings than most others. People who are not ready for this lifestyle tend to get in to these types of situations, and ruin their relationships. It makes us all look foolish, and is one more thing for the ultra conservative types to point a finger at by way of example to chime out "I told you so!" on sunday morning.
Luvbugs! (mR.)
(This is the Mr, here....)
For us, while this IS an open-choice lifestyle, there are rules that HAVE to be followed. I will never pretend to know what is best for other people, but we feel the rules we have set as a couple are simple, and easy to follow - and its all based on trust, and making sure that both people are safe and taken care of. No matter how you look at this lifestyle, there is alot of room for error here. If someone can't take our rules seriously, and be willing to follow those rules (as we would follow theirs), then there isn't gonna be any "hanky panky' going on.
Its not about what you can or can't do, its what you will or wont do. For example, I will not play at all, no matter how hot the other female is, if my wife isn't interested in playing. Its not a matter of can or can't, I just won't - because that would make my wife uncomfortable, and I value her feelings on this type of thing.
Again, to each his own - everyone has their own set of rules, and I feel its NOT to much to ask to have those that we participate with follow those rules.
My .04 (Too long to be just .02).
A&K
For us, while this IS an open-choice lifestyle, there are rules that HAVE to be followed. I will never pretend to know what is best for other people, but we feel the rules we have set as a couple are simple, and easy to follow - and its all based on trust, and making sure that both people are safe and taken care of. No matter how you look at this lifestyle, there is alot of room for error here. If someone can't take our rules seriously, and be willing to follow those rules (as we would follow theirs), then there isn't gonna be any "hanky panky' going on.
Its not about what you can or can't do, its what you will or wont do. For example, I will not play at all, no matter how hot the other female is, if my wife isn't interested in playing. Its not a matter of can or can't, I just won't - because that would make my wife uncomfortable, and I value her feelings on this type of thing.
Again, to each his own - everyone has their own set of rules, and I feel its NOT to much to ask to have those that we participate with follow those rules.
My .04 (Too long to be just .02).
A&K
Amen brother.
I must say, luvbugs said it well! Better than my sleep deprived mind could.... as have others here.
One thing I have never understood is the concept of an "open relationship" where either can do whoever, whenever. Why be married or in a commited relationship then? I have found our rules, guidelines, specifications.... whatever anyone wishes to call them.... are vital to prevent any "heat of the moment" problems from occuring and keep the focus on what is ultimately the more important issue.... our relationship. If sex with others is what is needed to keep a relationship going, it's a waste to keep it at all. Sex should never be the focus. When it is, then the rules will become simply an obsticle to a selfish end.
Rules for play are an expression of preference, safety, personal boundaries, commitment and, in a fashion, trust. Look, it boils down to simple facts. In any relationship, when someone is more concerned for their wants/needs than they are the other(s) it's not going to work well, if at all. And anything and/or anyone that is given the energy, time, care and/or intimacy rightfully due the partner in the relationship is wrong! There is only a finite amount of one's self to go around and if you're all hot and bothered over someone else then they have the focus and the partner doesn't.
I have yet to meet anyone in an "open relationship," one in which they have no real limits or rules, and who have "been doing it for years," that have a relationship much more substantial than friends or family. What a sad waste of time. I have told others, and will anytime and without hesitation, as will my wife, that we don't need to swing in order for our relationship to survive or grow. If the whole swing thing stopped right now it wouldn't change how we feel about each other or our loving commitment to each other. Our sex life would not "be over" nor our intimacy comprimised. How many could honestly say that, if their partner said it has to end or they are leaving, would be willing to do so and stay in their relationship? I have talked to a lot of those would wouldn't stay, prefering to swing over keeping their relationship.
Which brings it all to a head doesn't it? It's a matter of priorities and focus which requires trust and all those other needful things like rules. If sex with someone else is important enough to break the rules or to even ASK for it to change when it has been clearly established that it's an important issue to the person you are claiming to love and be commited to, then there is either a serious lack of respect, understanding, etc. OR you have no business being in the relationship to begin with because the focus is centered on self and not the partner and there should be question as to whether there is truly love there at all. (and lets not get all "semantic" or bound up in "situations" because you all know what I mean without me spelling it out in minute' detail)
So to answer the primary question.... yes it's wrong and cheating as far as we are concerned. Should there be another chance given? Wow.... it's all dependent on history together. I know for us, I would be willing to extend another chance, but there would have to be some new terms, at least until the broken trust has been repaired. And honestly, I would require the suspension of all swinging until the relationship was healed. If that was not acceptable.... there's the door.... don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out.
I hope I have been fairly sailiant in this. (and I KNOW my spelling is going to HAVE to be checked!) I'm tired as hell, but I couldn't let this go without throwing my personal thoughts into the mix. We have worked HARD to get where we are and to learn these lessons and we are fiercely commited to keeping the focus on OUR relationship. And we will not knowingly be a party to someone else damaging their's through us. That's why one of our rules is, no play with 1/ 2 of a couple. We don't care if their partner knows or gives permission, the answer is NO every time. (It also prevents the inevitable attempt to pull one of us apart from the other as well. And yes.... without fail.... it has always been attempted in those situations.)
I don't know how helpful this has been, especially when addressed so well by luvbugs and the others saying the same basic idea, but if it makes it more clear to even one it's been worth my time to post this. And I do apologize for any frustrations which may have occured for anyone while trying to read this and have it make sense without re-reading.
Aj
(Damn.... spell check failed.... :! )
One thing I have never understood is the concept of an "open relationship" where either can do whoever, whenever. Why be married or in a commited relationship then? I have found our rules, guidelines, specifications.... whatever anyone wishes to call them.... are vital to prevent any "heat of the moment" problems from occuring and keep the focus on what is ultimately the more important issue.... our relationship. If sex with others is what is needed to keep a relationship going, it's a waste to keep it at all. Sex should never be the focus. When it is, then the rules will become simply an obsticle to a selfish end.
Rules for play are an expression of preference, safety, personal boundaries, commitment and, in a fashion, trust. Look, it boils down to simple facts. In any relationship, when someone is more concerned for their wants/needs than they are the other(s) it's not going to work well, if at all. And anything and/or anyone that is given the energy, time, care and/or intimacy rightfully due the partner in the relationship is wrong! There is only a finite amount of one's self to go around and if you're all hot and bothered over someone else then they have the focus and the partner doesn't.
I have yet to meet anyone in an "open relationship," one in which they have no real limits or rules, and who have "been doing it for years," that have a relationship much more substantial than friends or family. What a sad waste of time. I have told others, and will anytime and without hesitation, as will my wife, that we don't need to swing in order for our relationship to survive or grow. If the whole swing thing stopped right now it wouldn't change how we feel about each other or our loving commitment to each other. Our sex life would not "be over" nor our intimacy comprimised. How many could honestly say that, if their partner said it has to end or they are leaving, would be willing to do so and stay in their relationship? I have talked to a lot of those would wouldn't stay, prefering to swing over keeping their relationship.
Which brings it all to a head doesn't it? It's a matter of priorities and focus which requires trust and all those other needful things like rules. If sex with someone else is important enough to break the rules or to even ASK for it to change when it has been clearly established that it's an important issue to the person you are claiming to love and be commited to, then there is either a serious lack of respect, understanding, etc. OR you have no business being in the relationship to begin with because the focus is centered on self and not the partner and there should be question as to whether there is truly love there at all. (and lets not get all "semantic" or bound up in "situations" because you all know what I mean without me spelling it out in minute' detail)
So to answer the primary question.... yes it's wrong and cheating as far as we are concerned. Should there be another chance given? Wow.... it's all dependent on history together. I know for us, I would be willing to extend another chance, but there would have to be some new terms, at least until the broken trust has been repaired. And honestly, I would require the suspension of all swinging until the relationship was healed. If that was not acceptable.... there's the door.... don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out.
I hope I have been fairly sailiant in this. (and I KNOW my spelling is going to HAVE to be checked!) I'm tired as hell, but I couldn't let this go without throwing my personal thoughts into the mix. We have worked HARD to get where we are and to learn these lessons and we are fiercely commited to keeping the focus on OUR relationship. And we will not knowingly be a party to someone else damaging their's through us. That's why one of our rules is, no play with 1/ 2 of a couple. We don't care if their partner knows or gives permission, the answer is NO every time. (It also prevents the inevitable attempt to pull one of us apart from the other as well. And yes.... without fail.... it has always been attempted in those situations.)
I don't know how helpful this has been, especially when addressed so well by luvbugs and the others saying the same basic idea, but if it makes it more clear to even one it's been worth my time to post this. And I do apologize for any frustrations which may have occured for anyone while trying to read this and have it make sense without re-reading.
Aj
(Damn.... spell check failed.... :! )
Rules are important but they can not be too complicated or extensive. You are bound to fail with two many rules.
We do have more open rules with some couples (I.E. With one couple Wednesday is play date for mr cheez and miss amber) and other couples you ask permission every time.
At the Midwest Secrets Club house as long as it happens in the walls of the building it is all good.
More rules then that and Mr Cheez gets confused
We do have more open rules with some couples (I.E. With one couple Wednesday is play date for mr cheez and miss amber) and other couples you ask permission every time.
At the Midwest Secrets Club house as long as it happens in the walls of the building it is all good.
More rules then that and Mr Cheez gets confused
Some very good points have been brought up in this discussion. I'd like to add some comments about our experiences. We personally have no rules. We like to meet everyone and get to know them ahead of time before we play with them, but in the case of on-premise parties there isn't always a lot of talking done before the playing.
We will get together with people we've played with before on an individual basis if its possible, not that it happens very often. We don't depend on being in the lifestyle to be the life-breath of our sex lives. We have more sex between ourselves outside of the lifestyle than we do in it.
We've met and been with couples who have rules. We understand that some people don't feel comfortable going as far as we would normally, and that's fine. What we have a problem with is those people who take the first opportunity to sneak behind their spouses back to break a rule or two, cuz they "can't wait" or whatever their excuse is.
Some couples do actually give each other "free passes" to do whatever they want to make up for the bending or breaking of a rule in the heat of the moment. Personally I have to say, if its actually a problem (any part of a couple breaking or bending rules on a whim), maybe it shouldn't have been a rule to begin with OR you're not secure enough in your relationship to be involved in the lifestyle. Since obviously despite your supposed respect, love and commitment to your spouse you found yourself tossing out whatever rules you agreed on with your spouse for your own moment of pleasure. Not to say that rules can't be tossed out on a whim through mutual agreement, but deciding that on your own is selfish to say the least.
-SG
We will get together with people we've played with before on an individual basis if its possible, not that it happens very often. We don't depend on being in the lifestyle to be the life-breath of our sex lives. We have more sex between ourselves outside of the lifestyle than we do in it.
We've met and been with couples who have rules. We understand that some people don't feel comfortable going as far as we would normally, and that's fine. What we have a problem with is those people who take the first opportunity to sneak behind their spouses back to break a rule or two, cuz they "can't wait" or whatever their excuse is.
Some couples do actually give each other "free passes" to do whatever they want to make up for the bending or breaking of a rule in the heat of the moment. Personally I have to say, if its actually a problem (any part of a couple breaking or bending rules on a whim), maybe it shouldn't have been a rule to begin with OR you're not secure enough in your relationship to be involved in the lifestyle. Since obviously despite your supposed respect, love and commitment to your spouse you found yourself tossing out whatever rules you agreed on with your spouse for your own moment of pleasure. Not to say that rules can't be tossed out on a whim through mutual agreement, but deciding that on your own is selfish to say the least.
-SG
Ok let's see----- One person breaks a rule, and the question is--- Should the other person now be allowed to break a rule. There would seem to be only two reasons for this. One would be for revenge, and I think we all know that is not conducive to a healthy relationship. The other would be that there is something that the other wants to do, but is not allowed to by the other, and thus has hidden frustrations and desires making them feel shackled by the relationship. In my opinion, "shackled" is not a word I would want associated with my relationships. Shackled creates frustration, and frustration can create a resentment that could eventually destroy the relationship, or at minimum foster underlying issues that are bound to weaken it. We are beings whose dominating desire is Freedom, and anything that restricts that is against our nature. A relationship should not be something that causes us to behave un-naturally. How about this?------ A relationship's goal should be to help the other experience " The next grandest version of the greatest vision that they ever had about themselves"!
WetFem we like the way you think....
How about this rule: " We are all One", and in knowing this, we would never do something that would hurt another; because we would be hurting ourselves. The only other rule would be: "We don't need rules."