Hi,
This topic eventually arose from another Forum topic, so I thought I'd bring it to its own "thread". The question is: Should sex retain a very-special status in our society - the whole concepts of "cheating" and "fidelity" - or should it begin to take on the status of any other hobby that may - or may not - be shared by a husband and wife: Watching sports, Clothes Shopping, Bowling, or Spelunking?
The intent is provoke thought and discussion.
Statement: Most of our laws and even *feelings* concerning sex - were formed in a time when sex usually meant "pregnancy and children and all of the responsibilities of childrearing".
It is only very-recently (anthropologically speaking) that sex is entirely separable from pregnancy and procreation, so many attitudes and structures and laws that were set up - may really not make sense anymore and society is struggling with what the "new rules" should be.
In particular, I suggest that marriage has been *defined* as "who you fuck".
I suppose that makes sense in a society where one is wanting to be sure that the responsibilities you shoulder (i.e. children) are, in fact, your own genetic material.
But *marriage* *should* be so much more than "who you fuck". The real point of marriage - I assert - is the *emotional intimacy* of sharing one's life with one's special life partner.
In that context, perhaps sex should take on an "importance" factor - rivalling only "hunting, shopping or bowling". What I mean is that in a perfect relationship, both partners want exactly the same amount of exactly the same activities. But I doubt that many such relationships exist - so we find partners who match to a large degree - and then agree to do some things separately - rather than "always together".
In that context, if a couple are well-matched as emotional intimates, but have entirely-different desires for amount and type of sex - then why should that one "hobby" wind up saying that the whole relationship should be sacrificed? Why shouldn't sex be treated as only as "important" as other activities - like Hunting, Shopping, and Bowling - to be done with others who enjoy it - rather than requiring that ONE partner to participate - and be miserable doing so?
Yes. Sex can - at its best - be the most intimate thing of all to share - particularly in creating and nurturing children together. But if it doesn't match up, then why should society retain the baggage which causes the majority of relationships to *break up* - so that each party can get the amount of *sex* they want?
Sure. Sex with other partners can magnify relationship problems. But so can "doing without" (for *either* partner).
And as a final "shot": Perhaps sex needs to be forbidden - in order for it to be as much *fun* as it is - totally aside from any moral or ethical reasons... ??
OK. Your turn. (General discussion).
This topic eventually arose from another Forum topic, so I thought I'd bring it to its own "thread". The question is: Should sex retain a very-special status in our society - the whole concepts of "cheating" and "fidelity" - or should it begin to take on the status of any other hobby that may - or may not - be shared by a husband and wife: Watching sports, Clothes Shopping, Bowling, or Spelunking?
The intent is provoke thought and discussion.
Statement: Most of our laws and even *feelings* concerning sex - were formed in a time when sex usually meant "pregnancy and children and all of the responsibilities of childrearing".
It is only very-recently (anthropologically speaking) that sex is entirely separable from pregnancy and procreation, so many attitudes and structures and laws that were set up - may really not make sense anymore and society is struggling with what the "new rules" should be.
In particular, I suggest that marriage has been *defined* as "who you fuck".
I suppose that makes sense in a society where one is wanting to be sure that the responsibilities you shoulder (i.e. children) are, in fact, your own genetic material.
But *marriage* *should* be so much more than "who you fuck". The real point of marriage - I assert - is the *emotional intimacy* of sharing one's life with one's special life partner.
In that context, perhaps sex should take on an "importance" factor - rivalling only "hunting, shopping or bowling". What I mean is that in a perfect relationship, both partners want exactly the same amount of exactly the same activities. But I doubt that many such relationships exist - so we find partners who match to a large degree - and then agree to do some things separately - rather than "always together".
In that context, if a couple are well-matched as emotional intimates, but have entirely-different desires for amount and type of sex - then why should that one "hobby" wind up saying that the whole relationship should be sacrificed? Why shouldn't sex be treated as only as "important" as other activities - like Hunting, Shopping, and Bowling - to be done with others who enjoy it - rather than requiring that ONE partner to participate - and be miserable doing so?
Yes. Sex can - at its best - be the most intimate thing of all to share - particularly in creating and nurturing children together. But if it doesn't match up, then why should society retain the baggage which causes the majority of relationships to *break up* - so that each party can get the amount of *sex* they want?
Sure. Sex with other partners can magnify relationship problems. But so can "doing without" (for *either* partner).
And as a final "shot": Perhaps sex needs to be forbidden - in order for it to be as much *fun* as it is - totally aside from any moral or ethical reasons... ??
OK. Your turn. (General discussion).
What?, Yes!, wait no, ok maybe
Hell what was the question again!
Hell what was the question again!
CLAY.....Your reply, way to funny 
BEARD.....Way to much thought process for us. Like getting an ice cream headache! LOL
Our 2 cents:
We fuck others for recreational pleasure but we do not make love to them. We also fuck each other and we make love to each other. There in lies the difference for us. We did like your idea about comparing to bowling... A Thursday night fuck team! The Ken's & Barbie's vs: The Fat Bastards on mattress one. Bi-female & Str8 male vs: Str8 male & female on mattress two. Makes us laugh till it hurts.
Great thought process but does it have to be that complicated??????
One must ask themselves why they are here (swinger) first, no not on earth!
It has to be for some type of pleasure and or pain. (some get pleasure out of pain). Yes it could be a hobby and it varies for those attending. Some only get to hunt in the fall or fish in the spring while others can play with their hobbies all year long.
People all vary and to a degree of swinging. We all have lives to live and how we spend that time is different, that is why we are unique! Most people we know who are in the life style play on a limited bases because of time, family and a 100 other things.
So to end this (our 2 cents) Sex is our favorite sport, it is free and you don't need special shoes
Now back to that bowling team concept, do we get Shirts and have sponsors????? LMAO
BEARD.....Way to much thought process for us. Like getting an ice cream headache! LOL
Our 2 cents:
We fuck others for recreational pleasure but we do not make love to them. We also fuck each other and we make love to each other. There in lies the difference for us. We did like your idea about comparing to bowling... A Thursday night fuck team! The Ken's & Barbie's vs: The Fat Bastards on mattress one. Bi-female & Str8 male vs: Str8 male & female on mattress two. Makes us laugh till it hurts.
Great thought process but does it have to be that complicated??????
One must ask themselves why they are here (swinger) first, no not on earth!
It has to be for some type of pleasure and or pain. (some get pleasure out of pain). Yes it could be a hobby and it varies for those attending. Some only get to hunt in the fall or fish in the spring while others can play with their hobbies all year long.
People all vary and to a degree of swinging. We all have lives to live and how we spend that time is different, that is why we are unique! Most people we know who are in the life style play on a limited bases because of time, family and a 100 other things.
So to end this (our 2 cents) Sex is our favorite sport, it is free and you don't need special shoes
Now back to that bowling team concept, do we get Shirts and have sponsors????? LMAO
Oh, gee, I can see a whole string of bad puns for "team names" for the "bowling" concept....
Beard, You did open something up but I'm not sure what.
I had to copy and paste your original here so I didn't miss or get too confused..
One of your last points first: Moral refers to standards as defined by the church, the government or your neighbors(in light of the Supreme Court decission a few years ago about porn) Ethics, on the other hand are something that we define for ourselves based on our upbringing/environment and values that we have defined based on whatever we base them on.
You are right that marriage is a concept designed by religion and the government for the care of offspring and the clear definition of linage for property rights. You use the term marriage, which is a legal term like it is a moral imperative then ask if it should be based on some one or group of common interrests. Then the next breath you suggest that marriage is supposed to be more than any of that and something to do with sharing and intimacy. Finally you go back to somehow trying to make a point, (I'm not sure what that point was) that maybe there should be a conglomerate of reasons for marriage then with the nesxt breath you ask if sex should be forbidden..
Now lets see if this makes any sense to anyone. I'm poly and We swing. I have a lover who is married and her husband knows or us(he is not poly) and B knows of us and we are all good friends. We are, my lover and I, intimate both emotionally and sexually and both non poly mates knowof this. B and I are very much soulmates but then my lover is also very close to that as well. I do not wish to take her away from her husband and I do not wish to replace B. She does not want to replace her husband with me and we are alll OK with that arrangement.
In my heart of heart I am married to both in a very intimate way although I do not wish to procreate with anyone anymore. She feels the same way toward me. I would submit that marriage is an intimate, emotional and sometimes physical union of people.. I did not say two people I said people. We have been taught sex as a negative thing and relationships with more than one as a negative thing because we cannot love more than one person or more than one at any one time... I submit that we can love more than one and that the more we love the more we get back from that...
Swinging is started off as fun between close friends and sometimes the term wife swapping became a reality.... Sex is fun adn swinging is about sex and today alot of times about relationships. Relationships in my opinion are for the benefit of everyone involved... .
So I'm not sure if I understood where you were going but this is my take on the propositions as I understood them.
Depending on any person's opinion or preferences sex and love can be the same or they can be separate or they can be coincidental but it's basically up to that person or couple to make that determination....
We, in the lifestyle, may ultimately be right and marriage may change to a more contractual thing rather than some sacrosanct BS that it has become.... Swingers as a group have more than 3.4 time greater chance of remaining married than that of non swingers. The range of failed marriages is between 66 and 77% in all first and second marriages and some 70% of all married people cheat on their mates. Swinger have a better than 85% chance of marriage survival. Cheating is not exempt in Swinging but I think is is greatly reduced...
I think as swingers we have sex with friends and it can be just that or it can be more... at least for me..
I had to copy and paste your original here so I didn't miss or get too confused..
One of your last points first: Moral refers to standards as defined by the church, the government or your neighbors(in light of the Supreme Court decission a few years ago about porn) Ethics, on the other hand are something that we define for ourselves based on our upbringing/environment and values that we have defined based on whatever we base them on.
You are right that marriage is a concept designed by religion and the government for the care of offspring and the clear definition of linage for property rights. You use the term marriage, which is a legal term like it is a moral imperative then ask if it should be based on some one or group of common interrests. Then the next breath you suggest that marriage is supposed to be more than any of that and something to do with sharing and intimacy. Finally you go back to somehow trying to make a point, (I'm not sure what that point was) that maybe there should be a conglomerate of reasons for marriage then with the nesxt breath you ask if sex should be forbidden..
Now lets see if this makes any sense to anyone. I'm poly and We swing. I have a lover who is married and her husband knows or us(he is not poly) and B knows of us and we are all good friends. We are, my lover and I, intimate both emotionally and sexually and both non poly mates knowof this. B and I are very much soulmates but then my lover is also very close to that as well. I do not wish to take her away from her husband and I do not wish to replace B. She does not want to replace her husband with me and we are alll OK with that arrangement.
In my heart of heart I am married to both in a very intimate way although I do not wish to procreate with anyone anymore. She feels the same way toward me. I would submit that marriage is an intimate, emotional and sometimes physical union of people.. I did not say two people I said people. We have been taught sex as a negative thing and relationships with more than one as a negative thing because we cannot love more than one person or more than one at any one time... I submit that we can love more than one and that the more we love the more we get back from that...
Swinging is started off as fun between close friends and sometimes the term wife swapping became a reality.... Sex is fun adn swinging is about sex and today alot of times about relationships. Relationships in my opinion are for the benefit of everyone involved... .
So I'm not sure if I understood where you were going but this is my take on the propositions as I understood them.
Depending on any person's opinion or preferences sex and love can be the same or they can be separate or they can be coincidental but it's basically up to that person or couple to make that determination....
We, in the lifestyle, may ultimately be right and marriage may change to a more contractual thing rather than some sacrosanct BS that it has become.... Swingers as a group have more than 3.4 time greater chance of remaining married than that of non swingers. The range of failed marriages is between 66 and 77% in all first and second marriages and some 70% of all married people cheat on their mates. Swinger have a better than 85% chance of marriage survival. Cheating is not exempt in Swinging but I think is is greatly reduced...
I think as swingers we have sex with friends and it can be just that or it can be more... at least for me..