Amazing that we live in a world in which 32 people that voted against this bill.
https://www.abc4.com/amp/news/local-news/sex-before-marriage-could-soon-be-legal-in-utah/1831895260
https://www.abc4.com/amp/news/local-news/sex-before-marriage-could-soon-be-legal-in-utah/1831895260
Oh good now we can have some fun! I’m always amazed at Utah politics. At least we have one win, sounds like there won’t be any more regular beer at the grocery stores in the future however.
It is definitely time to stop trying to control or enforce beliefs on everyone. I thought it was freedom of choice that drove our existence here?!?!
Utahldscouple wrote:
It is definitely time to stop trying to control or enforce beliefs on everyone. I thought it was freedom of choice that drove our existence here?!?!
Not even close. There is no separation of church and state here!!!
Yeah, the alcohol laws are fucked also. Another reason I make my own. We love this state, but seriously.....
Utahldscouple wrote:
It is definitely time to stop trying to control or enforce beliefs on everyone. I thought it was freedom of choice that drove our existence here?!?!
The Mormon trope of "free agency" is, perhaps, the biggest con perpetrated by the church. Even more so than all the foundational issues brought up, and ultimately admitted to, in the CES letter and the subsequent apologist essays by the church.
Though we're still "technically" Mormons it was that realization about free agency that started our journey out of the church. All the other stuff just reaffirmed our decision to leave.
Lately, however, with all of the church's blatant interference in the legislative process (Make no mistake, the church is ABSOLUTELY behind all the work against Prop 2 and the other citizen's initiatives that the Religiouslature is now gleefully dismantling.) we're thinking it's WAY past time that we tender our official resignation from the church.
Theocracy, indeed! And now soon to be obscured under the blanket of so-called "religious freedom".
And, fwiw, we're ALL in with the idea of puttin' on our fancy fornicatin' clothes and going out and converting a bunch of Mormons like ourselves who are just fed up and ready to thumb their noses at the church and it's BS by putting our God-given genitalia in places that Jesus doesn't approve of!
Hubby tendered his church membership almost 50 yrs ago and the church says he's still a member. He's hoping to get excommunicated for a lifetime of fornication.
Did or do the fornicators have to be caught in the act to be cited for the Class B misdemeanor? Or could we all be cited for fornication due to someone's testimony, or forensic evidence, or comments attached to our profiles?
EVILDOERS wrote:Utahldscouple wrote:
It is definitely time to stop trying to control or enforce beliefs on everyone. I thought it was freedom of choice that drove our existence here?!?!
The Mormon trope of "free agency" is, perhaps, the biggest con perpetrated by the church. Even more so than all the foundational issues brought up, and ultimately admitted to, in the CES letter and the subsequent apologist essays by the church.
Though we're still "technically" Mormons it was that realization about free agency that started our journey out of the church. All the other stuff just reaffirmed our decision to leave.
Lately, however, with all of the church's blatant interference in the legislative process (Make no mistake, the church is ABSOLUTELY behind all the work against Prop 2 and the other citizen's initiatives that the Religiouslature is now gleefully dismantling.) we're thinking it's WAY past time that we tender our official resignation from the church.
Theocracy, indeed! And now soon to be obscured under the blanket of so-called "religious freedom".
And, fwiw, we're ALL in with the idea of puttin' on our fancy fornicatin' clothes and going out and converting a bunch of Mormons like ourselves who are just fed up and ready to thumb their noses at the church and it's BS by putting our God-given genitalia in places that Jesus doesn't approve of!
The legislature will change the final bill to only legalize fornication between a unmarried man and an unmarried woman, so long as his dick does not exceed 3.2 inches in length.
"... so long as his dick does not exceed 3.2 inches in length."
So, what you're saying is that the General Authorities, by that measure, are ALL allowed to fornicate? Who knew? I thought they got off fucking ALL of us...figuratively.
Wait! So is that 3.2 hard or soft?!!?
So, what you're saying is that the General Authorities, by that measure, are ALL allowed to fornicate? Who knew? I thought they got off fucking ALL of us...figuratively.
Wait! So is that 3.2 hard or soft?!!?
EVILDOERS wrote:
"... so long as his dick does not exceed 3.2 inches in length."
So, what you're saying is that the General Authorities, by that measure, are ALL allowed to fornicate? Who knew? I thought they got off fucking ALL of us...figuratively.
Wait! So is that 3.2 hard or soft?!!?
Next they will come out with a "common consent" law, that basically states that if a quorum of 12 men in the legislature, or the theocracy, by the raising of their hands, authorizes a male Utah legislator, or male ecclesiastical figure to have sex with a woman it's consensual. If the woman disagrees she is will not be able to press charges, so long as a male Utah legislator or ecclesiastical authority compares her disagreement to stolen milk strippings in her presence or by mail or electronic media.
"Next they will come out with a "common consent" law, that basically states that if a quorum of 12 men in the legislature, or the theocracy, by the raising of their hands, authorizes a male Utah legislator, or male ecclesiastical figure to have sex with a woman it's consensual. If the woman disagrees she is will not be able to press charges, so long as a male Utah legislator or ecclesiastical authority compares her disagreement to stolen milk strippings in her presence or by mail or electronic media."
Of course, we're hyper-polarizing the argument here but with the current political climate, both in and out of Utah, one can't help but wonder if we aren't actually all too far away from THIS!
Of course, we're hyper-polarizing the argument here but with the current political climate, both in and out of Utah, one can't help but wonder if we aren't actually all too far away from THIS!
Not picking any side here. We could get into an insane debate and really go down the rabbit hole. Both of us work in professions that give us a lot of experience in the area of public policy. We see things similar to many of you and also from an “insider” perspective. You’d be surprised how wrong the general public perceives how our laws are created and why. Sometimes it’s uglier than you imagaine, sometimes much more thoughtful and careful. We hate seeing debates about ANY religion or politics in forums like this. It’s so unsexy. Everyone is entitled to an opinion even though many are uninformed and lack logic.
We’ll just leave it at this, every society enacts some sort of rules or laws. Like it or not most laws reflect the moral, religious or not, beliefs of the public. Utah has some quirky laws, they frustrate us regularly and we work for change. Even with all that, so much good comes from the very things that cause the “bad.” All in all Utah is a wonderful place and has good laws, amazing fiscal management, and a good regulatory/business environment...though it could be improved. We love Utah and feel lucky to live here.
Lest we go further down the rabbit hole; we’ll just say be cautious in how you view and judge others, even those of the predominant religion or political party in UT. Venom and vitriol can be toxic. Too often we see “open minded” people in the LS who have some of the most closed negative minds we have ever encountered.
Live and let live, love and let love, and leave politics and religion for debates with your crazy family gatherings. How ‘bout them Jazz?
We’ll just leave it at this, every society enacts some sort of rules or laws. Like it or not most laws reflect the moral, religious or not, beliefs of the public. Utah has some quirky laws, they frustrate us regularly and we work for change. Even with all that, so much good comes from the very things that cause the “bad.” All in all Utah is a wonderful place and has good laws, amazing fiscal management, and a good regulatory/business environment...though it could be improved. We love Utah and feel lucky to live here.
Lest we go further down the rabbit hole; we’ll just say be cautious in how you view and judge others, even those of the predominant religion or political party in UT. Venom and vitriol can be toxic. Too often we see “open minded” people in the LS who have some of the most closed negative minds we have ever encountered.
Live and let live, love and let love, and leave politics and religion for debates with your crazy family gatherings. How ‘bout them Jazz?
Smartflirts wrote:
Not picking any side here. We could get into an insane debate and really go down the rabbit hole. Both of us work in professions that give us a lot of experience in the area of public policy. We see things similar to many of you and also from an “insider” perspective. You’d be surprised how wrong the general public perceives how our laws are created and why. Sometimes it’s uglier than you imagaine, sometimes much more thoughtful and careful. We hate seeing debates about ANY religion or politics in forums like this. It’s so unsexy. Everyone is entitled to an opinion even though many are uninformed and lack logic.
We’ll just leave it at this, every society enacts some sort of rules or laws. Like it or not most laws reflect the moral, religious or not, beliefs of the public. Utah has some quirky laws, they frustrate us regularly and we work for change. Even with all that, so much good comes from the very things that cause the “bad.” All in all Utah is a wonderful place and has good laws, amazing fiscal management, and a good regulatory/business environment...though it could be improved. We love Utah and feel lucky to live here.
Lest we go further down the rabbit hole; we’ll just say be cautious in how you view and judge others, even those of the predominant religion or political party in UT. Venom and vitriol can be toxic. Too often we see “open minded” people in the LS who have some of the most closed negative minds we have ever encountered.
Live and let live, love and let love, and leave politics and religion for debates with your crazy family gatherings. How ‘bout them Jazz?
Oops! My bad! *furiously trying to push the rabbit back out of the hole!*
EVILDOERS wrote:
Oops! My bad! *furiously trying to push the rabbit back out of the hole!*
Lol. That could be interesting. So many ways to interpret that. Furry little bastards.
The third most common cause of blindness is cataracts. The other two are religion and politics.
Smartflirts wrote:Agreed!!!
Not picking any side here. We could get into an insane debate and really go down the rabbit hole. Both of us work in professions that give us a lot of experience in the area of public policy. We see things similar to many of you and also from an “insider” perspective. You’d be surprised how wrong the general public perceives how our laws are created and why. Sometimes it’s uglier than you imagaine, sometimes much more thoughtful and careful. We hate seeing debates about ANY religion or politics in forums like this. It’s so unsexy. Everyone is entitled to an opinion even though many are uninformed and lack logic.
We’ll just leave it at this, every society enacts some sort of rules or laws. Like it or not most laws reflect the moral, religious or not, beliefs of the public. Utah has some quirky laws, they frustrate us regularly and we work for change. Even with all that, so much good comes from the very things that cause the “bad.” All in all Utah is a wonderful place and has good laws, amazing fiscal management, and a good regulatory/business environment...though it could be improved. We love Utah and feel lucky to live here.
Lest we go further down the rabbit hole; we’ll just say be cautious in how you view and judge others, even those of the predominant religion or political party in UT. Venom and vitriol can be toxic. Too often we see “open minded” people in the LS who have some of the most closed negative minds we have ever encountered.
Live and let live, love and let love, and leave politics and religion for debates with your crazy family gatherings. How ‘bout them Jazz?
Okay sorry. There are those who are both swingers and believers in the predominate faith here in Utah. And that's cool. Obviously, I know enough about it to try a bit of sarcastic humor, and enough to put my foot in my mouth, but I do not mean to offend anyone. I have a lot of believer friends and over all the latter day saints are mostly very, very nice people. A two star general I knew, who has since passed away, and decided to live in Utah after he retired once said, he didn't personally want to become LDS, but he did decide that's who he wanted for his neighbors. As for the creation of public policy and legislation, the divisiveness we are currently in the midst of is super counter productive. My bad in that as well. Sorry. This state has it's policy strengths.
So are we all good now and we can start planning an epic fornication party? Wait, is fornication different from adultery and if so is adultery still illegal in Utah? How about sodomy? My good sodomy clothes are at the cleaners (Don't ask!) but I can still probably get them in time for some serious buggery (England) and/or blowies (Australia).
ps- If we're NOT good I'll grab my guitar and we'll all sing a couple of verses of Kumbaya or something.
ps- If we're NOT good I'll grab my guitar and we'll all sing a couple of verses of Kumbaya or something.
EVILDOERS wrote:
So are we all good now and we can start planning an epic fornication party? Wait, is fornication different from adultery and if so is adultery still illegal in Utah? How about sodomy? My good sodomy clothes are at the cleaners (Don't ask!) but I can still probably get them in time for some serious buggery (England) and/or blowies (Australia).
ps- If we're NOT good I'll grab my guitar and we'll all sing a couple of verses of Kumbaya or something.
Don't you have to be single fucking a single to fornicate? If a single person fucks a married person, is the single still fornicating or are they guilty of adultery by association?
DELICIOUSLYWET wrote:EVILDOERS wrote:
So are we all good now and we can start planning an epic fornication party? Wait, is fornication different from adultery and if so is adultery still illegal in Utah? How about sodomy? My good sodomy clothes are at the cleaners (Don't ask!) but I can still probably get them in time for some serious buggery (England) and/or blowies (Australia).
ps- If we're NOT good I'll grab my guitar and we'll all sing a couple of verses of Kumbaya or something.
Don't you have to be single fucking a single to fornicate? If a single person fucks a married person, is the single still fornicating or are they guilty of adultery by association?
Are the legal definitions of fornication and adultery different than the legal definitions? It would be odd if they weren't. On the other hand, since they're pretty much illegal (or were) because they're basically "sins" it would seem to follow that the definitions are similar or even the same? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well, at least they didn’t outlaw conversion therapy. I’m hoping it will work for me. I do recall during one little escapade I reached over to help insert our friends penis into mis simple, he was clearly having problems. Out of nowhere he stated in a loud voice, I don’t believe in any homo activities.. well, then.
They pass these laws in an effort to save your immortal sole. Is it working? Far too many of us are afraid of what others think of us or that government will take our children away. Isn't it about time we stood up and say that what consenting adults do between them is no ones business but their own.
Agreed, but I think the point that Smartflirts so eloquently made, is that it's more effective and appropriate when done at the polls, rather than our swinger's forums. Maybe this thread should have been started in the political section of the forums, so it would not have been front page, even though the more caustic entries, including my own were obviously exaggerating the reality and meant as humor. I doubt the OP thought it would veer the way it did. To suggest a situation is a bit ridiculous through humor is one thing, but unfortunately, people who might be closely associated with, especially if they recently discovered that they are not totally in accordance with, the organization being used as the butt of the joke, might feel somewhat threatened or looked at with less respect than they deserve. Some of us, who used to be affiliates, perhaps decades past, or perhaps more recently, are more likely to jest. Time ads perspective and you cannot laugh at what you now consider error without laughing at yourself, or frankly feeling a kinship and fondness with and toward others now like you, or still in the middle of the experience. Our lifestyle experience should be one of growth and joy, and positive. Our humor might cause someone to feel they are being shamed. Sometimes we, who are chuckling with the apostate choir, forget about these subtilties
Politics definitely not sexy! Can we change the subject to favorite forms of fornication now it's legal 
?
?"I think the point that Smartflirts so eloquently made, is that it's more effective and appropriate when done at the polls, rather than our swinger's forums."
Maybe...if we actually had any assurance that our votes/voices would be heard. Take a look at what happened to Props 2, and 3. And now what's happening with a number of bills (HB's 133 and 145 and others) to change the way ballot initiatives are able to get certified and what will happen after they are! Business as usual in Utahistan, I'm afraid.
And I don't see anything wrong with a thread that discusses whether or not what we do in our little hobby is actually legal or not. Though I agree that it got off-track a little (and I was certainly partly to blame). But when was the last time ANY thread didn't go off-track...at least a little bit? Seems a little naive to think that a topic, especially one like this, WOULDN'T go off-topic to some degree. Welcome to the wild and wooly interwebs where ANYTHING can happen and the meek and mild dare not tread! LOL
And, not to completely beat a dead horse to a pulp but there are SOME people, yes I'm one of them, who find nerdy, complex, thought-provoking discussions VERY sexy. And I doubt that I'm the only sapiosexual here. At least I HOPE I'm not!
Maybe...if we actually had any assurance that our votes/voices would be heard. Take a look at what happened to Props 2, and 3. And now what's happening with a number of bills (HB's 133 and 145 and others) to change the way ballot initiatives are able to get certified and what will happen after they are! Business as usual in Utahistan, I'm afraid.
And I don't see anything wrong with a thread that discusses whether or not what we do in our little hobby is actually legal or not. Though I agree that it got off-track a little (and I was certainly partly to blame). But when was the last time ANY thread didn't go off-track...at least a little bit? Seems a little naive to think that a topic, especially one like this, WOULDN'T go off-topic to some degree. Welcome to the wild and wooly interwebs where ANYTHING can happen and the meek and mild dare not tread! LOL
And, not to completely beat a dead horse to a pulp but there are SOME people, yes I'm one of them, who find nerdy, complex, thought-provoking discussions VERY sexy. And I doubt that I'm the only sapiosexual here. At least I HOPE I'm not!
"And, not to completely beat a dead horse to a pulp but there are SOME people, yes I'm one of them, who find nerdy, complex, thought-provoking discussions VERY sexy. And I doubt that I'm the only sapiosexual here. At least I HOPE I'm not!"
This horse isn't dead, maybe just needs to change the track it's running on. Again maybe this needs to be discussed in the dreaded political thread section. For the same reason one doesn't dress like they are going to Studio 54 in the 70s at a kid's birthday party at Chucky Cheese. Some people will enjoy it, but the one's that don't...…..
This horse isn't dead, maybe just needs to change the track it's running on. Again maybe this needs to be discussed in the dreaded political thread section. For the same reason one doesn't dress like they are going to Studio 54 in the 70s at a kid's birthday party at Chucky Cheese. Some people will enjoy it, but the one's that don't...…..
DELICIOUSLYWET wrote:
"Some people will enjoy it, but the one's that don't...….."
And that's absolutely their right. To NOT enjoy it if they so choose. Just like it's mine TO enjoy it. Wouldn't this world be a fucking boring place if we all liked and wanted the same things or thought about things exactly the same way? It's also their right to think I'm an asshole, block me, vow to never fuck me, or even make a voodoo doll in my likeness. ;-P
I absolutely support their right to think that talking politics isn't sexy and I would hope they would support my right to think differently about the certain things. I have absolutely no problem with people opining that something is or isn't sexy to them. I DO, however, have a problem if they somehow expect everyone else to necessarily agree with their opinion. But I don't really get upset about it because it seems to be a permanent fixture of ANY corner of the internet where people are allowed to share their views. Why would that bother anyone?
As to confining the topic to the political corner of the forums one could argue that it's also a pertinent topic for general discussion about the lifestyle at large since, theoretically, we are all (or were?) ostensibly breaking the law by more or less openly fornicating and/or committing adultery. LOL
Now if ADMIN wants to step in and issue an edict from on high forbidding such topics in ANYTHING but the political section I will abide by that commandment since it's their sandbox. :-D
"Some people will enjoy it, but the one's that don't...….."
And that's absolutely their right. To NOT enjoy it if they so choose. Just like it's mine TO enjoy it. Wouldn't this world be a fucking boring place if we all liked and wanted the same things or thought about things exactly the same way? It's also their right to think I'm an asshole, block me, vow to never fuck me, or even make a voodoo doll in my likeness. ;-P
I absolutely support their right to think that talking politics isn't sexy and I would hope they would support my right to think differently about the certain things. I have absolutely no problem with people opining that something is or isn't sexy to them. I DO, however, have a problem if they somehow expect everyone else to necessarily agree with their opinion. But I don't really get upset about it because it seems to be a permanent fixture of ANY corner of the internet where people are allowed to share their views. Why would that bother anyone?
As to confining the topic to the political corner of the forums one could argue that it's also a pertinent topic for general discussion about the lifestyle at large since, theoretically, we are all (or were?) ostensibly breaking the law by more or less openly fornicating and/or committing adultery. LOL
Now if ADMIN wants to step in and issue an edict from on high forbidding such topics in ANYTHING but the political section I will abide by that commandment since it's their sandbox. :-D
And just in case there is ONE person left who isn't sick to death of MY opining. Did you know that the original statute that made fornication illegal was only enacted in 1973?!!? I, incorrectly, thought this was probably one of those laws from, like 1872 or whenever.
As an aside. Ms. Evil and I were toying with the idea of hosting a party or even just a meet 'n greet when this bill is actually signed (assuming it is) by Herbert. Would a sex party based on a sex-related political issue be unsexy?
As an aside. Ms. Evil and I were toying with the idea of hosting a party or even just a meet 'n greet when this bill is actually signed (assuming it is) by Herbert. Would a sex party based on a sex-related political issue be unsexy?
The original posted was an attempt at humor with an excuse for celebration. However, the expressed interests of the members are not similarly aligned. The political discussion is a reflection of the collective interests of the group.
DELICIOUSLYWET wrote:Agreed, intellectual discussion is definitely sexy. Not sure if some of the debates online (not in person) qualify
"And, not to completely beat a dead horse to a pulp but there are SOME people, yes I'm one of them, who find nerdy, complex, thought-provoking discussions VERY sexy. And I doubt that I'm the only sapiosexual here. At least I HOPE I'm not!"
This horse isn't dead, maybe just needs to change the track it's running on. Again maybe this needs to be discussed in the dreaded political thread section. For the same reason one doesn't dress like they are going to Studio 54 in the 70s at a kid's birthday party at Chucky Cheese. Some people will enjoy it, but the one's that don't...…..
! It is difficult to have those discussions especially since we have yet to develop a sarcastic font or emoji !Utahldscouple wrote:DELICIOUSLYWET wrote:Agreed, intellectual discussion is definitely sexy. Not sure if some of the debates online (not in person) qualify
"And, not to completely beat a dead horse to a pulp but there are SOME people, yes I'm one of them, who find nerdy, complex, thought-provoking discussions VERY sexy. And I doubt that I'm the only sapiosexual here. At least I HOPE I'm not!"
This horse isn't dead, maybe just needs to change the track it's running on. Again maybe this needs to be discussed in the dreaded political thread section. For the same reason one doesn't dress like they are going to Studio 54 in the 70s at a kid's birthday party at Chucky Cheese. Some people will enjoy it, but the one's that don't...…..
This is the best emoji, of those in the dropdown menu, for 'sarcasm' (imho).
'Facetiousness', however, I think is best represented by this one.
I don't think there is an emoji for anyone who doesn't really understand the difference between those two words.
I won't even mention the word 'sardonic' because that's a word that's even more elusive for most of us. LOL